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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2741 - 2013-11-19 01:28:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Reducing the damage bonus and increasing the bandwidth is a very counter-productive suggestion. You end up with reduced DPS from scouts and mediums and the same overall DPS from heavies and sentries ... but use more drone bay capacity to get that same result.

Also - generally speaking the DPS calculations with regard to drones are flawed, the comparisons never take into account drones traveling between targets, or being recalled/lost and redeployed. Very much a case of EFT warriors creating a fuss about something that is not a real issue in practice.
Tarmaniel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2742 - 2013-11-19 14:46:38 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Also - generally speaking the DPS calculations with regard to drones are flawed, the comparisons never take into account drones traveling between targets, or being recalled/lost and redeployed. Very much a case of EFT warriors creating a fuss about something that is not a real issue in practice.


These are valid concerns in PvE, not PvP. They're especially not valid in the type of PvP this ship will mostly be used for, namely gank one target and run.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#2743 - 2013-11-19 16:42:25 UTC
Well Rubicon is out, so lets get info about them. How do they do in sites, in missioning, the new ghost site? How are they in PvP? How much do the ships cost from SoE and the BPs? Info people!
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2744 - 2013-11-19 17:37:09 UTC
i just build myself a stratios in eft, the stats are looking solid. only thing i would like to improve would be a locking range of 100km at max skills. 68.5 is abit low
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2745 - 2013-11-19 21:38:35 UTC
These new ships seem....

Logical

Blink
hujciwdupe22
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2746 - 2013-11-19 22:18:41 UTC
The ship is crap for sneaky pvp purposes,

a 120mil shield gank pilgrim does teh same,

as for pve i tried to run a lvl 4 mission in it and its hardly doable, cant imagin doing a 6/10 plex in it,
cap is crap, the recloaking delay will kill you at some point. atm its ridicously expensive and even if it gets cheaper lets say 300 mil you still get for 400 mil a t3 that does it all but better

its shiney but thats about it,
Tarmaniel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2747 - 2013-11-20 07:45:45 UTC
hujciwdupe22 wrote:
The ship is crap for sneaky pvp purposes,

a 120mil shield gank pilgrim does teh same,

as for pve i tried to run a lvl 4 mission in it and its hardly doable, cant imagin doing a 6/10 plex in it,
cap is crap, the recloaking delay will kill you at some point. atm its ridicously expensive and even if it gets cheaper lets say 300 mil you still get for 400 mil a t3 that does it all but better

its shiney but thats about it,


Pilgrim has like 900 shield, you can't put an XLASB on it without wasting part of your boosts. Also 50 Mbit is a lot less than 100.
Inagua
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2748 - 2013-11-20 15:51:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Inagua
Tarmaniel wrote:
hujciwdupe22 wrote:
The ship is crap for sneaky pvp purposes,

a 120mil shield gank pilgrim does teh same,

as for pve i tried to run a lvl 4 mission in it and its hardly doable, cant imagin doing a 6/10 plex in it,
cap is crap, the recloaking delay will kill you at some point. atm its ridicously expensive and even if it gets cheaper lets say 300 mil you still get for 400 mil a t3 that does it all but better

its shiney but thats about it,


Also 50 Mbit is a lot less than 100.


Are you completely newbie or what?! here is two difference type drones with difference characteristics. Heavy drones is a most problematic than small & medium: theys incredibly slow(mean - velocity, tracking). Yes indeed, they have more dps, BUT if YOU WANT gain that dps, first need target webbing, paiting, scrambling. If not do that, your dps was lower than small-medium drones or they absolutely miss target.
Second - they die very fast, because very slow velocity. need clean all small and medium NPCs, otherwise they die 100%.
Now your 100mb/s vs 50mb/s, what difference: you can't launch 10x medium drones or 20x small drones that can use only for large drones, theys can launch only "4x" , what better 4x problematic large drones/sentry(with theys is same as attack frigate with torpedoes) or 5x medium drones?????????? Only greater number of useless bandwidth
After reduce bandwidth, CCP make heavy/sentry drones worthless. That is same as reduce torpedoes dps, who not stupid or noob, that understand about what i talk
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2749 - 2013-11-20 17:25:44 UTC
Inagua wrote:
Tarmaniel wrote:
hujciwdupe22 wrote:
The ship is crap for sneaky pvp purposes,

a 120mil shield gank pilgrim does teh same,

as for pve i tried to run a lvl 4 mission in it and its hardly doable, cant imagin doing a 6/10 plex in it,
cap is crap, the recloaking delay will kill you at some point. atm its ridicously expensive and even if it gets cheaper lets say 300 mil you still get for 400 mil a t3 that does it all but better

its shiney but thats about it,


Also 50 Mbit is a lot less than 100.


Are you completely newbie or what?! here is two difference type drones with difference characteristics. Heavy drones is a most problematic than small & medium: theys incredibly slow(mean - velocity, tracking). Yes indeed, they have more dps, BUT if YOU WANT gain that dps, first need target webbing, paiting, scrambling. If not do that, your dps was lower than small-medium drones or they absolutely miss target.
Second - they die very fast, because very slow velocity. need clean all small and medium NPCs, otherwise they die 100%.
Now your 100mb/s vs 50mb/s, what difference: you can't launch 10x medium drones or 20x small drones that can use only for large drones, theys can launch only "4x" , what better 4x problematic large drones/sentry(with theys is same as attack frigate with torpedoes) or 5x medium drones?????????? Only greater number of useless bandwidth
After reduce bandwidth, CCP make heavy/sentry drones worthless. That is same as reduce torpedoes dps, who not stupid or noob, that understand about what i talk


no question asked heavy combat drones are the worst drones out there. But the Stratios is powerful enough when u give it more targeting range. More targeting range means u could use wardens at 80 or 90km and thats enough.
Inagua
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2750 - 2013-11-20 17:38:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Inagua
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
Inagua wrote:
Tarmaniel wrote:
hujciwdupe22 wrote:
The ship is crap for sneaky pvp purposes,

a 120mil shield gank pilgrim does teh same,

as for pve i tried to run a lvl 4 mission in it and its hardly doable, cant imagin doing a 6/10 plex in it,
cap is crap, the recloaking delay will kill you at some point. atm its ridicously expensive and even if it gets cheaper lets say 300 mil you still get for 400 mil a t3 that does it all but better

its shiney but thats about it,


Also 50 Mbit is a lot less than 100.


Are you completely newbie or what?! here is two difference type drones with difference characteristics. Heavy drones is a most problematic than small & medium: theys incredibly slow(mean - velocity, tracking). Yes indeed, they have more dps, BUT if YOU WANT gain that dps, first need target webbing, paiting, scrambling. If not do that, your dps was lower than small-medium drones or they absolutely miss target.
Second - they die very fast, because very slow velocity. need clean all small and medium NPCs, otherwise they die 100%.
Now your 100mb/s vs 50mb/s, what difference: you can't launch 10x medium drones or 20x small drones that can use only for large drones, theys can launch only "4x" , what better 4x problematic large drones/sentry(with theys is same as attack frigate with torpedoes) or 5x medium drones?????????? Only greater number of useless bandwidth
After reduce bandwidth, CCP make heavy/sentry drones worthless. That is same as reduce torpedoes dps, who not stupid or noob, that understand about what i talk


no question asked heavy combat drones are the worst drones out there. But the Stratios is powerful enough when u give it more targeting range. More targeting range means u could use wardens at 80 or 90km and thats enough.


Yes, sentry drones are effective in long range. BUT most NPCs are closer than 40-50km, sentrys under 10-20 km absolutely missed. Only with HI DPS can over short time eliminate ships while they in range. With 100mb/s(4x sentrys) you can do that??? Bear I mean DEDs over 4/10 strengh, not under.
Plus lost speed tanking, without that your effective hp gone fast, that enough if have hi dps from drones(sentry) and can eliminate enemies in range.. But dps was steal by CCP.

Ohhh sorry i forget, if use long range in PVP(exp. gate camping) that is good

CCPs abandon this thread , long long time ago, they no want change anything, same as "mountain" other ships with idiotic balance or design.
Enjoy what have and forget about anything Smile
Sieonigh
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2751 - 2013-11-20 18:01:08 UTC
CCP Rise please explain why covert cynos can't be fitted to thease ships?

because wasn't it said that anything that can fit a cov cloak can use a cov portal and lite a cov cyno
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#2752 - 2013-11-20 19:13:36 UTC
T3's beat Stratios IMHO, when comparing the primary goal of an exploration ship. I am nonplussed on the Stratios, and probably will not bother buying one. ::sadpanda::

T3's can fit both a gravity capacitor and memetic algorithm rig (for scan strength and virus boost), Strat can do one or the other.
T3's can fit interdiction nullifiers. With the most delicious drops being on relic sites in nullsec, nuff said.
The only plus on the Strat side I see is a bigger cargo hold, but with expanders in a T3's lows this is a non issue.

CCP: Why did you roll out an exploration focused ship that is worse at it's primary intended exploration role than existing T3's?

The only way to save this ship IMHO is to give it a premier virus strength boost (15%), and/or interdiction nullifier -- while reducing its combat capability to compensate for OP'ness.

Would you like to know more?
sabastyian
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#2753 - 2013-11-20 20:19:34 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
T3's beat Stratios IMHO, when comparing the primary goal of an exploration ship. I am nonplussed on the Stratios, and probably will not bother buying one. ::sadpanda::

T3's can fit both a gravity capacitor and memetic algorithm rig (for scan strength and virus boost), Strat can do one or the other.
T3's can fit interdiction nullifiers. With the most delicious drops being on relic sites in nullsec, nuff said.
The only plus on the Strat side I see is a bigger cargo hold, but with expanders in a T3's lows this is a non issue.

CCP: Why did you roll out an exploration focused ship that is worse at it's primary intended exploration role than existing T3's?

The only way to save this ship IMHO is to give it a premier virus strength boost (15%), and/or interdiction nullifier -- while reducing its combat capability to compensate for OP'ness.

Well, T3's can now refit off of a depot, so even giving this ship the interdiction nullifier would bring them on par with a t3 as they can carry several different fits and subsystems......
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2754 - 2013-11-20 22:05:27 UTC
Inagua wrote:
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
Inagua wrote:
Tarmaniel wrote:
hujciwdupe22 wrote:
The ship is crap for sneaky pvp purposes,

a 120mil shield gank pilgrim does teh same,

as for pve i tried to run a lvl 4 mission in it and its hardly doable, cant imagin doing a 6/10 plex in it,
cap is crap, the recloaking delay will kill you at some point. atm its ridicously expensive and even if it gets cheaper lets say 300 mil you still get for 400 mil a t3 that does it all but better

its shiney but thats about it,


Also 50 Mbit is a lot less than 100.


Are you completely newbie or what?! here is two difference type drones with difference characteristics. Heavy drones is a most problematic than small & medium: theys incredibly slow(mean - velocity, tracking). Yes indeed, they have more dps, BUT if YOU WANT gain that dps, first need target webbing, paiting, scrambling. If not do that, your dps was lower than small-medium drones or they absolutely miss target.
Second - they die very fast, because very slow velocity. need clean all small and medium NPCs, otherwise they die 100%.
Now your 100mb/s vs 50mb/s, what difference: you can't launch 10x medium drones or 20x small drones that can use only for large drones, theys can launch only "4x" , what better 4x problematic large drones/sentry(with theys is same as attack frigate with torpedoes) or 5x medium drones?????????? Only greater number of useless bandwidth
After reduce bandwidth, CCP make heavy/sentry drones worthless. That is same as reduce torpedoes dps, who not stupid or noob, that understand about what i talk


no question asked heavy combat drones are the worst drones out there. But the Stratios is powerful enough when u give it more targeting range. More targeting range means u could use wardens at 80 or 90km and thats enough.


Yes, sentry drones are effective in long range. BUT most NPCs are closer than 40-50km, sentrys under 10-20 km absolutely missed. Only with HI DPS can over short time eliminate ships while they in range. With 100mb/s(4x sentrys) you can do that??? Bear I mean DEDs over 4/10 strengh, not under.
Plus lost speed tanking, without that your effective hp gone fast, that enough if have hi dps from drones(sentry) and can eliminate enemies in range.. But dps was steal by CCP.

Ohhh sorry i forget, if use long range in PVP(exp. gate camping) that is good

CCPs abandon this thread , long long time ago, they no want change anything, same as "mountain" other ships with idiotic balance or design.
Enjoy what have and forget about anything Smile


i havent done 5/10s yet or above, but minor serp annex and another of that hardness with an ishtar. u can easily mwd out to 90km without taking much hurt. if u sit at 90km unload gardes and snipe everything with 750dps. That ofcourse is not possible with a stratios, i think they should either get a targeting lock range increase so that u dont need sebo or go back to the 125 bandwith, the latter will probably op it so which means i prefer the 100km lock range
Inagua
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2755 - 2013-11-21 02:50:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Inagua
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:

i havent done 5/10s yet or above, but minor serp annex and another of that hardness with an ishtar. u can easily mwd out to 90km without taking much hurt. if u sit at 90km unload gardes and snipe everything with 750dps. That ofcourse is not possible with a stratios, i think they should either get a targeting lock range increase so that u dont need sebo or go back to the 125 bandwith, the latter will probably op it so which means i prefer the 100km lock range


Do not need compare Ishtar to stratios, Stratios is completely scrap against Ishtar(this ship has all important bonuses for better use Heavy and sentry drones). Stratios worse than Gila and 90% others drones using ships ..........

Sensor booster II with target range gets you 110km lock range(without script 89+ scan res. 447)
2xOmnidirectional tracking link II(or 1xOmnidirectional tracking link + 1x [Rig] medium drone scope chip II) - gets your bouncer II =optimal 91.2km and falloff 42km(optimal 90km and falloff 42km)
Only 3x medium slots(or 2x medium and 1x rig slots)
If not using afterburner or cap booster, you can use painter for better snipe
Thats what you want not a problem

BUT use this tactic you get risk lost the drop. Example you at 100km range from drop ship or can, i'm easy align under cloak to that place, and wait until possible steal your loot. After that grab and warp out. I will say, explorers this time is incredible many. If can't grab loot fast that nothing good, Many times I have shot dead loot, that they would not take a thief/"explorer". Mobile tractor structure- not help you Pirate

For that reason need much more dps (fast eliminate npc's grab and move out from that place). More chances survive in low and null sec, and your loot will be safe in your cargohold Cool If in your system are safe, only grab these modules and problem fixed.
My and most others problem can't fix, for that reason need grab T3 with mobile structure



Stratios is for EVE Online masochists(if they are experience players) Nothing personal, only explain in few words Cool)
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2756 - 2013-11-21 08:36:43 UTC
Inagua wrote:


Do not need compare Ishtar to stratios, Stratios is completely scrap against Ishtar(this ship has all important bonuses for better use Heavy and sentry drones). Stratios worse than Gila and 90% others drones using ships ..........

Sensor booster II with target range gets you 110km lock range(without script 89+ scan res. 447)
2xOmnidirectional tracking link II(or 1xOmnidirectional tracking link + 1x [Rig] medium drone scope chip II) - gets your bouncer II =optimal 91.2km and falloff 42km(optimal 90km and falloff 42km)
Only 3x medium slots(or 2x medium and 1x rig slots)
If not using afterburner or cap booster, you can use painter for better snipe
Thats what you want not a problem

BUT use this tactic you get risk lost the drop. Example you at 100km range from drop ship or can, i'm easy align under cloak to that place, and wait until possible steal your loot. After that grab and warp out. I will say, explorers this time is incredible many. If can't grab loot fast that nothing good, Many times I have shot dead loot, that they would not take a thief/"explorer". Mobile tractor structure- not help you Pirate

For that reason need much more dps (fast eliminate npc's grab and move out from that place). More chances survive in low and null sec, and your loot will be safe in your cargohold Cool If in your system are safe, only grab these modules and problem fixed.
My and most others problem can't fix, for that reason need grab T3 with mobile structure



Stratios is for EVE Online masochists(if they are experience players) Nothing personal, only explain in few words Cool)


trust me i know that the ishtar is the better drone boat, i would love to see the stratios getting 125m³ bandwith. But the important thing for me is that u dont lose your sp in either one of these.

Sidenote: give me pm with the info on using a cloaky t3 in plexxes and i may try it.
Inagua
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2757 - 2013-11-21 15:17:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Inagua
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
Inagua wrote:


Do not need compare Ishtar to stratios, Stratios is completely scrap against Ishtar(this ship has all important bonuses for better use Heavy and sentry drones). Stratios worse than Gila and 90% others drones using ships ..........

Sensor booster II with target range gets you 110km lock range(without script 89+ scan res. 447)
2xOmnidirectional tracking link II(or 1xOmnidirectional tracking link + 1x [Rig] medium drone scope chip II) - gets your bouncer II =optimal 91.2km and falloff 42km(optimal 90km and falloff 42km)
Only 3x medium slots(or 2x medium and 1x rig slots)
If not using afterburner or cap booster, you can use painter for better snipe
Thats what you want not a problem

BUT use this tactic you get risk lost the drop. Example you at 100km range from drop ship or can, i'm easy align under cloak to that place, and wait until possible steal your loot. After that grab and warp out. I will say, explorers this time is incredible many. If can't grab loot fast that nothing good, Many times I have shot dead loot, that they would not take a thief/"explorer". Mobile tractor structure- not help you Pirate

For that reason need much more dps (fast eliminate npc's grab and move out from that place). More chances survive in low and null sec, and your loot will be safe in your cargohold Cool If in your system are safe, only grab these modules and problem fixed.
My and most others problem can't fix, for that reason need grab T3 with mobile structure.



Stratios is for EVE Online masochists(if they are experience players) Nothing personal, only explain in few words Cool)


trust me i know that the ishtar is the better drone boat, i would love to see the stratios getting 125m³ bandwith. But the important thing for me is that u dont lose your sp in either one of these.

Sidenote: give me pm with the info on using a cloaky t3 in plexxes and i may try it.



Here only one combination Tengu T3 click here + all 3% missiles implants theys not expensive :), focus cleaning combat DED(this fit resist focus to guristas easy solo 5/10; 6/10; 7/10; 8/10; - for 9 and 10/10 need logist or need add more defence) tanking= offensive, speed, active shield. Hacking, analyzing in hi/low sec are only wasting time(after CCP "UPDATE" not a long time ago).
Sub system nulifier only need in nullsec and wh if clean low sec not use them only warp core stabilizers

if you very scaring about SP, you first check in EVEMon how many need sp to normal use heavy/sentry drones plus stratios bonus skills at 5lvl(2x cruisers about 30days) + tank skills and compare with t3 .

If you clean hi/low sec under 4/10 combat sites, grab Stratios use small/medium drones and forget t3 that optimal choice if want clean DEDs over 4/10 low/null sec and WH grab t3 and forget stratios Cool

Quote:
If compare few years ago and this time, realy good drop is incredibly reduced, inserted scrap drop items with cost under may 1milion., added more chanses find good sites BUT theys are empty because drop reduced Twisted Peoples wasting time for cleaning empty sites. In null sec i clean where drop are much higest than hi/low sec, somtimes nothing good over 12hour cleaning combat sites.
Coming time when absolutely no sense use exploration profession(this time if somone ask me want or no start this profession, i say NO.) Are other choice make ISK easy and without risk and nonsense time wasting.....


Make your combination yourself(what best for you), different situations difference fits
Hexatron Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2758 - 2013-11-21 17:03:55 UTC
Soemthing i noticed about the astero:

That ship is built to "stay hidden" taken right from the description of the ship. Developed, so they can get to their target ndiscovered and unseen.

So why is there no reactivation bonus on the covert ops cloaking device? Having to hold the gatecloak after each jump, to wait for the covert ops device to get usable again, for sure is not about "getting quickly in and out".

I feel they should have a reactivation delay bonus, that would fit their role and description. Especially as they are made for cloaked operations with their super new and special warp drives. It even sais that this helps using higher developed cloaking functions - yet i have to wait 30 seconds after every gate, before i can use it again. Lame... what about this is high developed cloaking?
Sir Mattsimus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2759 - 2013-11-22 10:34:39 UTC
Hexatron Ormand wrote:
Soemthing i noticed about the astero:

That ship is built to "stay hidden" taken right from the description of the ship. Developed, so they can get to their target ndiscovered and unseen.

So why is there no reactivation bonus on the covert ops cloaking device? Having to hold the gatecloak after each jump, to wait for the covert ops device to get usable again, for sure is not about "getting quickly in and out".

I feel they should have a reactivation delay bonus, that would fit their role and description. Especially as they are made for cloaked operations with their super new and special warp drives. It even sais that this helps using higher developed cloaking functions - yet i have to wait 30 seconds after every gate, before i can use it again. Lame... what about this is high developed cloaking?


For a ship meant to explore, this makes traveling from system to system really irritating. :\
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#2760 - 2013-11-22 10:39:22 UTC
Hexatron Ormand wrote:
Soemthing i noticed about the astero:

That ship is built to "stay hidden" taken right from the description of the ship. Developed, so they can get to their target ndiscovered and unseen.

So why is there no reactivation bonus on the covert ops cloaking device? Having to hold the gatecloak after each jump, to wait for the covert ops device to get usable again, for sure is not about "getting quickly in and out".

I feel they should have a reactivation delay bonus, that would fit their role and description. Especially as they are made for cloaked operations with their super new and special warp drives. It even sais that this helps using higher developed cloaking functions - yet i have to wait 30 seconds after every gate, before i can use it again. Lame... what about this is high developed cloaking?


You said it in your first sentence. It is meant to stay hidden, which means there is no need to recloak if you stay hidden/cloaked.

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