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Probably the WORST event I've wasted my time on in my 10 years of EVE ...

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Kappy Ukap
K For Kill
#861 - 2013-11-10 11:47:38 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Kappy Ukap wrote:
. Remember by slowing down the servers deliberately to protest about it?


These days that's not called a protest. These days it's simply playing the game. TiDi slows it for you. Pirate


Umm, there was no such thing as TiDi when Incarna was out... But people complain TiDi is game breaking anyway soo...
Octoven
Stellar Production
#862 - 2013-11-10 11:55:16 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Hopefully CCP WILL answer the issues raised, but just trying to get through what really happened here without nullsqwark and leetspeak.

The expectation was this would be more like an organised event like a school trip, where you expect the teachers to manage the risk while giving you the feeling of having an adventure.

What actually happened,was if it happened on Earth, the pupils were marched from Paris to vienna and spread out all in a line, when they reached there, they were then marched into Russia, and dumped into the siege of Stalingrad.

And then expecting them to appreciate Russian culture and cuisine.

Yeah, that worked out well.

The fault begins and ends with the organisers, I am disgusted with the attitude and culture of blaming the victim.


You are certainly correct here, most high sec players expected this to be a field day trip where the teacher holds your hands and shows you pretty things. However, this game is NOT anything like that and those expecting something like that SHOULD be disappointed before it even starts. We arent playing hello kitty online.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#863 - 2013-11-10 12:11:13 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Octoven wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Hopefully CCP WILL answer the issues raised, but just trying to get through what really happened here without nullsqwark and leetspeak.

The expectation was this would be more like an organised event like a school trip, where you expect the teachers to manage the risk while giving you the feeling of having an adventure.

What actually happened,was if it happened on Earth, the pupils were marched from Paris to vienna and spread out all in a line, when they reached there, they were then marched into Russia, and dumped into the siege of Stalingrad.

And then expecting them to appreciate Russian culture and cuisine.

Yeah, that worked out well.

The fault begins and ends with the organisers, I am disgusted with the attitude and culture of blaming the victim.


You are certainly correct here, most high sec players expected this to be a field day trip where the teacher holds your hands and shows you pretty things. However, this game is NOT anything like that and those expecting something like that SHOULD be disappointed before it even starts. We arent playing hello kitty online.


Very very clearly so, I think It would be a very good time for CCP to make very clear their views on their customer base.
If they wish to treat their customers in this manner to encourage the antisocial,depraved,and uncaring side of the game, that is their right, and they will no doubt retain the customers who find it easier to express themselves in this "game" than real life.
They can introduce, sexual depravity, torture and bestiality too because eve is hard.
If however they wish to have customers that are not current or future residents of prisons and mental hospitals they may need to look at their priorities and policies?

I personally believe and hope this was a major clusterfrack, or the work of a few rougue developers/managers.


I really really hope so because there is also a lot of good in this game.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#864 - 2013-11-10 12:20:51 UTC
Octoven wrote:

You are certainly correct here, most high sec players expected this to be a field day trip where the teacher holds your hands and shows you pretty things. However, this game is NOT anything like that and those expecting something like that SHOULD be disappointed before it even starts. We arent playing hello kitty online.


I don't think they were expecting a field day trip. They were expecting to participate in something where to have a good time. You know, something worth participating in.

Die in a fire? Sure, as long as one gets the perception he fired one shot, the perception he was not a "farmable".

Because I have played MMOs that died after people realized they were just that: farmables, quasi-NPCs put in a game to please immortal elite other guys.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Octoven
Stellar Production
#865 - 2013-11-10 12:21:59 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Octoven wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Hopefully CCP WILL answer the issues raised, but just trying to get through what really happened here without nullsqwark and leetspeak.

The expectation was this would be more like an organised event like a school trip, where you expect the teachers to manage the risk while giving you the feeling of having an adventure.

What actually happened,was if it happened on Earth, the pupils were marched from Paris to vienna and spread out all in a line, when they reached there, they were then marched into Russia, and dumped into the siege of Stalingrad.

And then expecting them to appreciate Russian culture and cuisine.

Yeah, that worked out well.

The fault begins and ends with the organisers, I am disgusted with the attitude and culture of blaming the victim.


You are certainly correct here, most high sec players expected this to be a field day trip where the teacher holds your hands and shows you pretty things. However, this game is NOT anything like that and those expecting something like that SHOULD be disappointed before it even starts. We arent playing hello kitty online.


Very very clearly so, I think It would be a very good time for CCP to make very clear their views on their customer base.
If they wish to treat their customers in this manner to encourage the antisocial,depraved,and uncaring side of the game, that is their right, and they will no doubt retain the customers who find it easier to express themselves in this "game" than real life.
They can introduce, sexual depravity, torture and bestiality too because eve is hard.
If however they wish to have customers that are not current or future residents of prisons and mental hospitals they may need to look at their priorities and policies?

I personally believe and hope this was a major clusterfrack, or the work of a few rougue developers/managers.


I really really hope so because there is also a lot of good in this game.


See, unfortunately you don't get it mate. It is a game, not real life. Stop making it sound as if its the end of the world. CCP didn't treat their customers in any manner, I did not once see a CCP dev character shooting me. They set the stage and we went with it. If everyone chose to live in lala land and assume that CCP would hold their hands and walk them through null sec protecting them, then it seems clear to me that such people need a reality check.

What I am seeing from most people is the same pattern, like a spoiled child screaming he took my toy QQ. If you can't handle the way eve is played...find another game its as simple as that. I am truly fascinated at how butt hurt people really are about this. You make it sound like your best friend just shot you in the leg or something and betrayed you. Least you forget its a game, stop taking it so personally, learn from the experience and try again. Whining about it on the forums doesn't solve this issue nor does it reverse what has happened. What is done is done, next time try collaborating with your fellow high sec players to learn strategy. Strolling through null space isnt the same as doing Guristas Ex.

CCP devs were interviewed sometime after the incursion live events. They stated even back then, that live events allows them to introduce a situation or scenario and then step back and see what happens. If you are unhappy with your experience then there is a simple solution to it...dont do any more live events.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#866 - 2013-11-10 12:24:06 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Octoven wrote:

You are certainly correct here, most high sec players expected this to be a field day trip where the teacher holds your hands and shows you pretty things. However, this game is NOT anything like that and those expecting something like that SHOULD be disappointed before it even starts. We arent playing hello kitty online.


I don't think they were expecting a field day trip. They were expecting to participate in something where to have a good time. You know, something worth participating in.

Die in a fire? Sure, as long as one gets the perception he fired one shot, the perception he was not a "farmable".

Because I have played MMOs that died after people realized they were just that: farmables, quasi-NPCs put in a game to please immortal elite other guys.


Im not sure about you then because I formed up in high sec to fly with empires and managed to get several shots off before dying. You have to bring the right ship and pay attention. Was there a chance at success? Hell no, but I went anyway because I love challenges and that is something this event certainly offered.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#867 - 2013-11-10 12:33:05 UTC
Octoven wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Octoven wrote:

You are certainly correct here, most high sec players expected this to be a field day trip where the teacher holds your hands and shows you pretty things. However, this game is NOT anything like that and those expecting something like that SHOULD be disappointed before it even starts. We arent playing hello kitty online.


I don't think they were expecting a field day trip. They were expecting to participate in something where to have a good time. You know, something worth participating in.

Die in a fire? Sure, as long as one gets the perception he fired one shot, the perception he was not a "farmable".

Because I have played MMOs that died after people realized they were just that: farmables, quasi-NPCs put in a game to please immortal elite other guys.


Im not sure about you then because I formed up in high sec to fly with empires and managed to get several shots off before dying. You have to bring the right ship and pay attention. Was there a chance at success? Hell no, but I went anyway because I love challenges and that is something this event certainly offered.


So you'd completely understand if everyone who thought the event was a baffling display of incompetence on the part of CCP and was disappointed by every second of it unsubscribed because, according to that logic, this game isn't fun for them?

I have a feeling CCP is praying to tapdancing Jesus that isn't the case, because they make a lot of money from those people who now have a very negative view of endgame content.

However the game is "supposed" to be, when CCP says you'd be assisting imperial and CONCORD fleets I think most players took them at their literal word. A lotf those people had never seen a gate camp before, and plenty had never been in nullsec in a fleet before.

But I suppose if they don't like the event, and the event represents what EVE is really like, those people should just stop wasting their time if they didn't like it and leave the game.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#868 - 2013-11-10 12:36:24 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Octoven wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Octoven wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Hopefully CCP WILL answer the issues raised, but just trying to get through what really happened here without nullsqwark and leetspeak.

The expectation was this would be more like an organised event like a school trip, where you expect the teachers to manage the risk while giving you the feeling of having an adventure.

What actually happened,was if it happened on Earth, the pupils were marched from Paris to vienna and spread out all in a line, when they reached there, they were then marched into Russia, and dumped into the siege of Stalingrad.

And then expecting them to appreciate Russian culture and cuisine.

Yeah, that worked out well.

The fault begins and ends with the organisers, I am disgusted with the attitude and culture of blaming the victim.


You are certainly correct here, most high sec players expected this to be a field day trip where the teacher holds your hands and shows you pretty things. However, this game is NOT anything like that and those expecting something like that SHOULD be disappointed before it even starts. We arent playing hello kitty online.


Very very clearly so, I think It would be a very good time for CCP to make very clear their views on their customer base.
If they wish to treat their customers in this manner to encourage the antisocial,depraved,and uncaring side of the game, that is their right, and they will no doubt retain the customers who find it easier to express themselves in this "game" than real life.
They can introduce, sexual depravity, torture and bestiality too because eve is hard.
If however they wish to have customers that are not current or future residents of prisons and mental hospitals they may need to look at their priorities and policies?

I personally believe and hope this was a major clusterfrack, or the work of a few rougue developers/managers.


I really really hope so because there is also a lot of good in this game.


See, unfortunately you don't get it mate. It is a game, not real life. Stop making it sound as if its the end of the world. CCP didn't treat their customers in any manner, I did not once see a CCP dev character shooting me. They set the stage and we went with it. If everyone chose to live in lala land and assume that CCP would hold their hands and walk them through null sec protecting them, then it seems clear to me that such people need a reality check.

What I am seeing from most people is the same pattern, like a spoiled child screaming he took my toy QQ. If you can't handle the way eve is played...find another game its as simple as that. I am truly fascinated at how butt hurt people really are about this. You make it sound like your best friend just shot you in the leg or something and betrayed you. Least you forget its a game, stop taking it so personally, learn from the experience and try again. Whining about it on the forums doesn't solve this issue nor does it reverse what has happened. What is done is done, next time try collaborating with your fellow high sec players to learn strategy. Strolling through null space isnt the same as doing Guristas Ex.

CCP devs were interviewed sometime after the incursion live events. They stated even back then, that live events allows them to introduce a situation or scenario and then step back and see what happens. If you are unhappy with your experience then there is a simple solution to it...dont do any more live events.



You really really cannot understand can you?

The issue is one of culture.

Is it one where they wish to limit the game to a very restricted sandbox that only caters to a very few, addmittedly rather strange vocal customers?

Or do they wish to have a wider audience or range of customers.
The quieter customers who play this game for other reasons than an as an outlet for feelings that would get them locked up, are the majority of their paying customers, if not the loudest.

All we want to know is do we wish to continue financing the survival of this company..

I think that is clear enough.

This is really a rubicon moment for this company, their choice is completely clear and their response is a Rubicon moment for many many people.

As I have repeatedly said there is enough good in this game that I really hope that there is a place for us in this game.And we can continue to support it.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Octoven
Stellar Production
#869 - 2013-11-10 12:40:30 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Octoven wrote:

You are certainly correct here, most high sec players expected this to be a field day trip where the teacher holds your hands and shows you pretty things. However, this game is NOT anything like that and those expecting something like that SHOULD be disappointed before it even starts. We arent playing hello kitty online.


I don't think they were expecting a field day trip. They were expecting to participate in something where to have a good time. You know, something worth participating in.

Die in a fire? Sure, as long as one gets the perception he fired one shot, the perception he was not a "farmable".

Because I have played MMOs that died after people realized they were just that: farmables, quasi-NPCs put in a game to please immortal elite other guys.


Im not sure about you then because I formed up in high sec to fly with empires and managed to get several shots off before dying. You have to bring the right ship and pay attention. Was there a chance at success? Hell no, but I went anyway because I love challenges and that is something this event certainly offered.


So you'd completely understand if everyone who thought the event was a baffling display of incompetence on the part of CCP and was disappointed by every second of it unsubscribed because, according to that logic, this game isn't fun for them?

I have a feeling CCP is praying to tapdancing Jesus that isn't the case, because they make a lot of money from those people who now have a very negative view of endgame content.

However the game is "supposed" to be, when CCP says you'd be assisting imperial and CONCORD fleets I think most players took them at their literal word. A lotf those people had never seen a gate camp before, and plenty had never been in nullsec in a fleet before.

But I suppose if they don't like the event, and the event represents what EVE is really like, those people should just stop wasting their time if they didn't like it and leave the game.


It wouldn't be the first time in ten years someone has quit this game because of the learning curve or the challenge. Not EVERY player who went was new and some of those commenting on the forums about how it sucked has been in eve long enough to have had an opportunity to experience some for of pvp or gate camps. My point is, if you are unwilling to fail and learn to become a better player then perhaps you should unsub or simply choose never to involved yourself with "endgame" content.

Kyria Shirako
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#870 - 2013-11-10 12:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyria Shirako
Octoven wrote:

You are certainly correct here, most high sec players expected this to be a field day trip where the teacher holds your hands and shows you pretty things. However, this game is NOT anything like that and those expecting something like that SHOULD be disappointed before it even starts. We arent playing hello kitty online.


Yes, this is a harsh game where hilariously tragic things can happen. That is definitely part of the attraction, the ability to watch/participate in the occasional essentially organic trainwreck, and - I"ll keep saying this until I'm blue in the portrait - I'd wager that most event participants were aware of the possibility that their could happen and didn't bring their top-end ships. I don't think anyone expected a 'field trip,' and I think to state that most of them did is to do them an unnecessary disservice and missing the point. I think the people who want to play in Equestria are already there, not here.

The expectation of some direction... I don't know that this expectation was as unreasonable as you claim, because CCP NPCs did briefly provide that 'handholding,' pulling them towards the gates over a series of long ti-di jumps, telling them to meet and regroup at Stacmon, etc. while the players tried to organize into armor and shield fleets. Then Ti-di started breaking up an already thrown-together fleet... and then the developers seemingly got bored and called the event over before most of the rest could even make it.

The bigger "Expectation" was that we would get to participate in an event shaping the Eve universe. But what many of us got was an hourlong slog through ti-di, followed by either getting destroyed in moments in nullsec - or getting the "Whoops, we didn't need you, the station self-destructed, so sorry!" message while still in lowsec, and so very few players got to lay a finger on the actual event site, much less have any influence over events.

Again: It's not that ships got destroyed. That is a facet of Eve most of us are aware of. Some ships got destroyed - but everyone from empire space had time wasted to no end whatsoever, and at the behest of developers. Lots of people took time off work for what turned out to be a nonevent or a utterly pointless ship loss.

I emphasize developers in the last paragraph because if a bunch of players had flown a thousand hi-sec players right into a deathtrap, I'd actually applaud that. It'd be con-man brilliant if some wily fox actually pulled that off, and anyone who followed them deserved more or less what they got. But having developers lead players of wildly varying experience levels right into a fruitless timesink/deathtrap under the guise of an event just feels like cheating.


However, I'm not quite with the camp that thinks CCP wanted this to go anything like the way it did. Consider that If CCP really planned for this to happened the way it did, that would mean that the central message would be "Next time CCP stages an event, don't trust them, don't participate, or at least run away the moment anything looks fishy." Which... frankly sounds kind of like an insane message for them to try to put forward, don't you think? I don't think they intended to actively discourage event participation. Never attribute to malice what can easily be attributed to incompetence, and all that: I think someone just screwed up bigtime.

I mean, seriously? Can you name another game where you are actively supposed to mistrust the developers' directions? "Don't trust anyone, even the devs" supposed to be the second rule of EVE, after "Don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it?"
Octoven
Stellar Production
#871 - 2013-11-10 12:48:03 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Octoven wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Octoven wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Hopefully CCP WILL answer the issues raised, but just trying to get through what really happened here without nullsqwark and leetspeak.

The expectation was this would be more like an organised event like a school trip, where you expect the teachers to manage the risk while giving you the feeling of having an adventure.

What actually happened,was if it happened on Earth, the pupils were marched from Paris to vienna and spread out all in a line, when they reached there, they were then marched into Russia, and dumped into the siege of Stalingrad.

And then expecting them to appreciate Russian culture and cuisine.

Yeah, that worked out well.

The fault begins and ends with the organisers, I am disgusted with the attitude and culture of blaming the victim.


You are certainly correct here, most high sec players expected this to be a field day trip where the teacher holds your hands and shows you pretty things. However, this game is NOT anything like that and those expecting something like that SHOULD be disappointed before it even starts. We arent playing hello kitty online.


Very very clearly so, I think It would be a very good time for CCP to make very clear their views on their customer base.
If they wish to treat their customers in this manner to encourage the antisocial,depraved,and uncaring side of the game, that is their right, and they will no doubt retain the customers who find it easier to express themselves in this "game" than real life.
They can introduce, sexual depravity, torture and bestiality too because eve is hard.
If however they wish to have customers that are not current or future residents of prisons and mental hospitals they may need to look at their priorities and policies?

I personally believe and hope this was a major clusterfrack, or the work of a few rougue developers/managers.


I really really hope so because there is also a lot of good in this game.


See, unfortunately you don't get it mate. It is a game, not real life. Stop making it sound as if its the end of the world. CCP didn't treat their customers in any manner, I did not once see a CCP dev character shooting me. They set the stage and we went with it. If everyone chose to live in lala land and assume that CCP would hold their hands and walk them through null sec protecting them, then it seems clear to me that such people need a reality check.

What I am seeing from most people is the same pattern, like a spoiled child screaming he took my toy QQ. If you can't handle the way eve is played...find another game its as simple as that. I am truly fascinated at how butt hurt people really are about this. You make it sound like your best friend just shot you in the leg or something and betrayed you. Least you forget its a game, stop taking it so personally, learn from the experience and try again. Whining about it on the forums doesn't solve this issue nor does it reverse what has happened. What is done is done, next time try collaborating with your fellow high sec players to learn strategy. Strolling through null space isnt the same as doing Guristas Ex.

CCP devs were interviewed sometime after the incursion live events. They stated even back then, that live events allows them to introduce a situation or scenario and then step back and see what happens. If you are unhappy with your experience then there is a simple solution to it...dont do any more live events.



You really really cannot understand can you?

The issue is one of culture.

Is it one where they wish to limit the game to a very restricted sandbox that only caters to a very few, addmittedly rather strange vocal customers?

Or do they wish to have a wider audience or range of customers.
The quieter customers who play this game for other reasons than an as an outlet for feelings that would get them locked up, are the majority of their paying customers, if not the loudest.

All we want to know is do we wish to continue financing the survival of this company..

I think that is clear enough.This is really a rubicon moment for this company, their choice is completely clear and their response is a Rubicom moment for many many people.

As I have repeatedly said there is enough good in this game that I really hope that there is a place for us in this game.And we can continue to support it.


No I completely understand; however, culture is irrelevant. There are players from all over the globe every walk of life and culture who play eve. They aren't restricted to one form of play or another. I would no more say russian players are pure pvp and americans pure pve then I would say this game is about culture.

While eve is a sandbox and has pvp and pve opportunities. The game is primarily pvp it always have been and always will be. pvp drive conflict and keeps the game in a constant state of flux, without it...the game stagnates and dies. Therefore pvp is a leading factor in the game and its development. No one twisted your arm to force you to participate. Live events are just different parts of the game similar to pi, fw, missions, mining, and ect... Live events are centered around conflict and thus REQUIRE pvp activity. If you choose to unsub your account because ONE function of the game is not as YOU want it to be then best of luck to you because live events will always be geared toward conflict. I mean for **** sake, Luminere was in high sec yet anyone who went in got flagged suspect. If you want to participate in the events, expect to die...period.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#872 - 2013-11-10 12:49:21 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Kyria Shirako wrote:
Octoven wrote:

You are certainly correct here, most high sec players expected this to be a field day trip where the teacher holds your hands and shows you pretty things. However, this game is NOT anything like that and those expecting something like that SHOULD be disappointed before it even starts. We arent playing hello kitty online.


Yes, this is a harsh game where hilariously tragic things can happen. That is definitely part of the attraction, the ability to watch/participate in the occasional essentially organic trainwreck, and - I"ll keep saying this until I'm blue in the portrait - I'd wager that most event participants were aware of the possibility that their could happen and didn't bring their top-end ships. I don't think anyone expected a 'field trip,' and I think to state that most of them did is to do them an unnecessary disservice and missing the point. I think the people who want to play in Equestria are already there, not here.

The expectation of some direction... I don't know that this expectation was as unreasonable as you claim, because CCP NPCs did briefly provide that 'handholding,' pulling them towards the gates over a series of long ti-di jumps, telling them to meet and regroup at Stacmon, etc. while the players tried to organize into armor and shield fleets. Then Ti-di started breaking up an already thrown-together fleet... and then the developers seemingly got bored and called the event over before most of the rest could even make it.

The bigger "Expectation" was that we would get to participate in an event shaping the Eve universe. But what many of us got was an hourlong slog through ti-di, followed by either getting destroyed in moments in nullsec - or getting the "Whoops, we didn't need you, the station self-destructed, so sorry!" message while still in lowsec, and so very few players got to lay a finger on the actual event site, much less have any influence over events.

Again: It's not that ships got destroyed. That is a facet of Eve most of us are aware of. Some ships got destroyed - but everyone from empire space had time wasted to no end whatsoever, and at the behest of developers. Lots of people took time off work for what turned out to be a nonevent or a utterly pointless ship loss.

I emphasize developers in the last paragraph because if a bunch of players had flown a thousand hi-sec players right into a deathtrap, I'd actually applaud that. It'd be con-man brilliant if some wily fox actually pulled that off, and anyone who followed them deserved more or less what they got. But having developers lead players of wildly varying experience levels right into a fruitless timesink/deathtrap under the guise of an event just feels like cheating.


However, I'm not quite with the camp that thinks CCP wanted this to go anything like the way it did. Consider that If CCP really planned for this to happened the way it did, that would mean that the central message would be "Next time CCP stages an event, don't trust them, don't participate, or at least run away the moment anything looks fishy." Which... frankly sounds kind of like an insane message for them to try to put forward, don't you think? I don't think they intended to actively discourage event participation. Never attribute to malice what can easily be attributed to incompetence, and all that: I think someone just screwed up bigtime.

I mean, seriously? Can you name another game where you are actively supposed to mistrust the developers' directions? "Don't trust anyone, even the devs" supposed to be the second rule of EVE, after "Don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it?"



Thanks a nice intelligent post.

I also believe it was a horrific mistake and not the intentional choice of the company to self destruct.
I really really genuinely hope so.
I love this game and get a great deal. Of enjoyment from it.
If the intention is to twist it into a nullsec on steroids though where the only content is bigger blobs? Or more PvP, you would seriously have to question the sanity and business abilities of the company.
Ccp have responded very rapidly in the past to placate the vocal organised blocks, do they not realise that the quieter ones have a breaking point?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Deunan Tenephais
#873 - 2013-11-10 12:53:58 UTC
Are really some people not seeing a problem in CCP, the company managing the game, not being seen as trustworthy by customers ?
Octoven
Stellar Production
#874 - 2013-11-10 12:55:56 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Are really some people not seeing a problem in CCP, the company managing the game, not being seen as trustworthy by customers ?


The alternative would be to not be involved at all and thus alienate yourself from your playerbase. I think event or not we can all agree that would be detrimental to the game as a whole.
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#875 - 2013-11-10 12:56:41 UTC
Quote:
"Don't trust anyone, even the devs"



this is the core issue here, never in any game I played that a company publicly does something like this, and I think it has already been adressed with CCP silence, they told us to **** off with this event, well at least we got star citizen now.

I mean look at him

Quote:
It wouldn't be the first time in ten years someone has quit this game because of the learning curve or the challenge. Not EVERY player who went was new and some of those commenting on the forums about how it sucked has been in eve long enough to have had an opportunity to experience some for of pvp or gate camps. My point is, if you are unwilling to fail and learn to become a better player then perhaps you should unsub or simply choose never to involved yourself with "endgame" content.


LOOK AT HIM AND LAUGH
this is the kind of player CCP wants, the illiterate who after 44 pages still misses the entire point of our "whining"
And then when explained to him another one shows up, I just.. just.. lol.

CCP told us the truth, not in written word, we are not welcome here. Don't expect a reply.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#876 - 2013-11-10 12:59:20 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:
Quote:
"Don't trust anyone, even the devs"



this is the core issue here, never in any game I played that a company publicly does something like this, and I think it has already been adressed with CCP silence, they told us to **** off with this event, well at least we got star citizen now.

I mean look at him

Quote:
It wouldn't be the first time in ten years someone has quit this game because of the learning curve or the challenge. Not EVERY player who went was new and some of those commenting on the forums about how it sucked has been in eve long enough to have had an opportunity to experience some for of pvp or gate camps. My point is, if you are unwilling to fail and learn to become a better player then perhaps you should unsub or simply choose never to involved yourself with "endgame" content.


LOOK AT HIM AND LAUGH
this is the kind of player CCP wants, the illiterate who after 44 pages still misses the entire point of our "whining"
And then when explained to him another one shows up, I just.. just.. lol.

CCP told us the truth, not in written word, we are not welcome here. Don't expect a reply.


No I get and understand all the whining, from my point of view though its drastically un-needed. There has been wayyyy too much drama-festing over the negatives of this event.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#877 - 2013-11-10 13:03:03 UTC
Octoven wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Octoven wrote:

You are certainly correct here, most high sec players expected this to be a field day trip where the teacher holds your hands and shows you pretty things. However, this game is NOT anything like that and those expecting something like that SHOULD be disappointed before it even starts. We arent playing hello kitty online.


I don't think they were expecting a field day trip. They were expecting to participate in something where to have a good time. You know, something worth participating in.

Die in a fire? Sure, as long as one gets the perception he fired one shot, the perception he was not a "farmable".

Because I have played MMOs that died after people realized they were just that: farmables, quasi-NPCs put in a game to please immortal elite other guys.


Im not sure about you then because I formed up in high sec to fly with empires and managed to get several shots off before dying. You have to bring the right ship and pay attention. Was there a chance at success? Hell no, but I went anyway because I love challenges and that is something this event certainly offered.


So you'd completely understand if everyone who thought the event was a baffling display of incompetence on the part of CCP and was disappointed by every second of it unsubscribed because, according to that logic, this game isn't fun for them?

I have a feeling CCP is praying to tapdancing Jesus that isn't the case, because they make a lot of money from those people who now have a very negative view of endgame content.

However the game is "supposed" to be, when CCP says you'd be assisting imperial and CONCORD fleets I think most players took them at their literal word. A lotf those people had never seen a gate camp before, and plenty had never been in nullsec in a fleet before.

But I suppose if they don't like the event, and the event represents what EVE is really like, those people should just stop wasting their time if they didn't like it and leave the game.


It wouldn't be the first time in ten years someone has quit this game because of the learning curve or the challenge. Not EVERY player who went was new and some of those commenting on the forums about how it sucked has been in eve long enough to have had an opportunity to experience some for of pvp or gate camps. My point is, if you are unwilling to fail and learn to become a better player then perhaps you should unsub or simply choose never to involved yourself with "endgame" content.



I'm actually kind of interested in the perceived challenge of EVE. It was bandied around a lot when I started, but it's not necessarily a hard game to play. In fact, the larger and better organized your fleet, the simpler gameplay gets. I wouldn't in any way, shape, or form call it challenging. Ikaruga was challenging. Ninja Gaiden was challenging.

Even WoW players need more than a few F keys and doing as the FC commands. They at least need to learn to reactively hit keys in sequence without standing in fire. I suppose FW can be more complicated since it's generally done with smaller ships and fleets. It can certainly be time-consuming. The interface presents most of the challenge to learn and deal with. Fitting and skills are the sorts of things you just look up online, so that's not any different than any other game you need to read about gear and skills in.

But the game? Is the game really that hard and does it really have such a drastic learning curve? When I was going to try to recruit a few new players, that was pretty much the reason. People describe it in needlessly over-complicated ways and play up the difficulty, but in the end it's not like you need to learn to perform an Immelman. It's all just finding a decent fit and learning how to control range and speed. After that, find a corp and everything becomes simple.

I can't really recruit people now in good faith, and I'm probably not re-subscribing once mine falls off. If that event was a good approximation of what passes as "normal" in EVE, then the game's not hard. The game is tedious.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#878 - 2013-11-10 13:03:38 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Octoven wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
Quote:
"Don't trust anyone, even the devs"



this is the core issue here, never in any game I played that a company publicly does something like this, and I think it has already been adressed with CCP silence, they told us to **** off with this event, well at least we got star citizen now.

I mean look at him

Quote:
It wouldn't be the first time in ten years someone has quit this game because of the learning curve or the challenge. Not EVERY player who went was new and some of those commenting on the forums about how it sucked has been in eve long enough to have had an opportunity to experience some for of pvp or gate camps. My point is, if you are unwilling to fail and learn to become a better player then perhaps you should unsub or simply choose never to involved yourself with "endgame" content.


LOOK AT HIM AND LAUGH
this is the kind of player CCP wants, the illiterate who after 44 pages still misses the entire point of our "whining"
And then when explained to him another one shows up, I just.. just.. lol.

CCP told us the truth, not in written word, we are not welcome here. Don't expect a reply.


No I get and understand all the whining, from my point of view though its drastically un-needed. There has been wayyyy too much drama-festing over the negatives of this event.


Anomaly one you are completely correct, could not imagine he could then post this!
I do truly hope you are wrong about the corporate culture though, I really want it to have been a horrible mistake or at least misguided, something that can be put right. I want to continue playing, I want to know that I can continue to support it.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#879 - 2013-11-10 13:04:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Constantin Baracca wrote:
(...)

I have a feeling CCP is praying to tapdancing Jesus that isn't the case, because they make a lot of money from those people who now have a very negative view of endgame content.(...).


They make an average of 10.6 dollars per subscriber and month, and that includes GTCs and PLEXes, which are more expensive than subscriptions.

If I had a subcription based game that made me 3/5 of a subscription per subscriber and month, I would not be bragging around... neither does CCP.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Arn Dog
#880 - 2013-11-10 13:17:22 UTC
Have we actually heard anything back from them on this yet other than "thanks for feedback"? Their Twitter has also been awfully quiet since the event. They cant all still be hungover from their event party can they!??? lol