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Probably the WORST event I've wasted my time on in my 10 years of EVE ...

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Author
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#441 - 2013-11-08 12:35:48 UTC
Normally I just ignore these events because it's not worth jumpcloning to hisec for a day to participate in some scripted event. But I had a newish alt and against my better judgement I went to participate in this event from the hisec side. Going into the event my expectations of CCP were very low and consisted of nothing more than:

1. I would be able to arrive in the system where the event was happening

2. I would get my ship blown up fighting other players in the event (nobody really cares about pre-scripted lore based event outcome)

Sadly, CCP failed to deliver on even these low expectations. Rather than have the event in a 0.5 and just flag all participants in system as criminals or use titan/WH transport to the desto system they chose to have everyone form up in hisec and then travel thru tidi thru known camped systems to the nullsec destination, getting everyone instablapped in the bubble camps along the way. I don't think anyone really cares that they died, I think the problem is they feel their time was completely wasted by CCP. The event was "organized" in a way that made it almost impossible to participate in the actual event.

Oh well, at least I was able to confirm that it's not worth participating in these events.
fudface
ACME-INC
#442 - 2013-11-08 12:39:19 UTC
how about a comment from ccp?

even if its hahahahahah we got you :)

my 2 isk worth

Pyrra Helius
Mortal Dei
#443 - 2013-11-08 12:42:46 UTC
I read the original announcement. It looked exciting. Explosion in wormholes, strange information. This appeared like a great story to follow up on. Looked too good to be true. A co-op fleet? In EVE? Get serious!

Well, I decided to give it the benefit of a doubt.

I fitted a nice sniping BS to be able to enjoy the view.

Then the 2nd announcement arrives almost last moment. The event had written "fail" all over it. Reminded me of a tactic CCP followed more than 6 years ago that led an average of 60k logged ppl a day to fall down to 21k. It was bound to happen again.

I left the BS aside, mounted a tanky BC and went to Meves to make up my mind; see if it was worth it. CCP appeared in a godlike capsule (mounted with a doomsday device) issuing instructions on local, amidst a chaos of chatter. I decided not to join, but follow and observe. It was very obvious where this was headed. The map data showed that clearly. I enjoyed the TiDi as it gave me time to make a cup of coffee and read the local chatter. I didn't suffer the pain of the Ihal people, so I shouldn't complain.

Reaching the staging area of hacmon or something, can't remember it for the life of me, there were just scattered people. Still fleets. Info was erratic at best. Naturally there were the null infiltrators trying to inform their alliance corpies what's going on. A few saw the stars holding something different than their flying stick, since all technology was removed from around them.

So I started moving around systems, seeing disbanded fleets everywhere. I had no idea Ihal was coming down as well (from the totally other side of empire space). I feel bad for those people. So I headed back, reading curses on local. The storm had already begun.

Originally, the energy of the people flying together was fun. It would have been a good fight had CCP exhibited elementary organization skills. But that didn't happen. Perhaps their software is not ready for something like this.

EVE is not a game, it's a scifi life simulator. If in real life there was such bad organization like last night's experience, I don't think there are words good enough to describe the outcome.

Kudos to CCP for their technical and graphical skills. Unfortunately, I can't extend it further. Organizational & leadership skills under pressure and tight timelines is not a common trait. But I expected better choices when it comes to something of this magnitude. What happened was simply poor and immature.

From the 900 people of Meves, maybe 200 entered nullsec. I lived in the zero zone for some time in the past. Flying there with a ghost of a fractured and disorganized fleet through a chokepoint is just madness. I'm just sad of the uproar this will bring and I am seriously beginning to think that Rubicon will be a move toward a very wrong direction.

I feel lucky as I eventually spent less than a couple of hours flying. It was good social time, but in my opinion, everyone should have left the moment the "officials" started announcing "directions" over twitter. That was not organizing, that was a public photo-shoot saying "hey, look how cool I am"! Thankfully, some fleet commanders were smart enough to send people home and save them further disappointment.

Some maturity an professionalism does not hurt, CCP. Actions like this impact on a very sensitive body-part: the pocket. And I have good reason for using the word "body-part".

Until next time.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#444 - 2013-11-08 12:43:48 UTC
I think they kept staging points secret so that 0.0 entities wouldn't log off supers/place cynos for pipebombing etc. It's a fair choice - the same happened to people that joined in to support the pirates. We initially got into FD- if I remember correctly, then moved by gates to 8V-. Our route was much shorter however, and we didn't experience any tidi.

Still, hisec->nullsec would is usually a longer way anyway. Maybe CCP should've broken out Faction Titans or something, bridge people out close? Give empire people a chance to drop from a Titan.

That said, I can't help but feel smug and throw in the obligatory "Welcome to nullsec". Also come to the dark side, we have cookies?

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#445 - 2013-11-08 12:47:36 UTC
Just dropping in to say thanks for giving us this feedback. We haven't had time to go through it all yet, but we will be doing so as a team and taking a lot of points on board to shape our work in the future. We will also be explaining some things to clear up some misunderstandings we have been noticing. Thanks for your time and patience.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Speedkermit Damo
Invicta.
Muffins of Mayhem
#446 - 2013-11-08 12:48:37 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Dear Nul people

Nobody cares about losing their ships, everyone that went to the event expected their ship would get blown up. It didn't matter if it was happening in high, low, or nul it was always going to end in a free for all, so stop congratulating yourselves, its a bit sad taking the credit for this. By the time we got the length of your fleets we were strung out half way across empire space and most just wanted to get blown up so the whole stupid ordeal would be over. A lot of people self destructed before jumping into nul, I thought I'd jump in and have a few seconds of action after all the time I wasted getting there because I had nothing to lose, but after reading the hollow boasting on here I see why people would rather not give you the satisfaction of a kill report. Your not the ones harvesting tears here, we were trolled by CCP, i'd just like to know why a company that wants to stay in business thinks it's a good idea to troll their own customers?

This whole event was staged to make high sec players into cannon fodder for nulsec alliances, they did everything possible to ensure we would be completely helpless when we got there, and they made sure we didn't know we were going to nulsec until it was too late to turn back. I'm disgusted tbh


This basically,

CCP stitched you all up.

Arf!

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

SMI2LE
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#447 - 2013-11-08 12:50:02 UTC  |  Edited by: SMI2LE
Anubis Aureus wrote:
SMI2LE wrote:
what did you expected in null? some rainbow-sh***ng-unicorns? one does not simply go to hell and expect virgins



People call it "fun"
Beeing slaughtered is no fun for most people. What did YOU expected from the HighsecCarebears? If you -after 22 sites- still are unable understand that the fewst "cries" about the fact THAT they did die instead HOW they died i guess its pointless to argue anyway.

People did expect fun. Something MEANINGFULL. Something special. Every highsec-carebear can go to a low/nullsec gatecamp and die there, thats nothing special.



pretty sure a lot of player had a lot of fun yesterday. belive me, what you have done IS meaningfull, it is realy special.
for us.

p.s. entering 0.0 you had died anyway so enjoy your temporary importance to New Eden
Trepalluim
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#448 - 2013-11-08 12:50:44 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:

Yes because the AT is a live event right? It is an event held outside of tranquility. And having a tournament doesn't mean themepark.

quite. outside tq.
Carnip
Kaer Industries
#449 - 2013-11-08 12:53:16 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Just dropping in to say thanks for giving us this feedback. We haven't had time to go through it all yet, but we will be doing so as a team and taking a lot of points on board to shape our work in the future. We will also be explaining some things to clear up some misunderstandings we have been noticing. Thanks for your time and patience.


"Misunderstandings we have been noticing"??

Is it the same arrogant CCP that was pre-Incarna? You guys do realize that you can't afford that, with flat userbase for last several years and no big feature coming in Rubicon?

Killerjock
Von Neumann Industries
#450 - 2013-11-08 12:54:37 UTC
"I did not hear that" is one of the primary arguments in this trollfest.

Some of the nullsec badasses keep saying "what did you expect?"

I'll tell you what I expected.

I expected to know where the **** I was going - and no, "nullsec" isn't enough. I was on a clean clone and cheap ship (pve fitted, for sure), but I've flown around 20 hisec systems before finally being told where the event was.... by another player and coming from a tweet and with no confirmation whatsoever. And I'm not even sure it was there for real: I just know if I got there I would have done so after the event was ended.

I expected to see something different than usual - I don't really need CCP intervention or organization to go get myself into a losec gatecamp, I can do that anytime without TIDI and travelling a lot less than 20 systems.

I expected the nodes I would be travelling through to be hardened: instead, I was on a constant flow of 10% nodes. Initially I thought it was an indication that we were on the wrong route, but I'm not so sure anymore.

I expected that when CCP tells me to stage at a certain system, that would be where the event starts. Tell me to stage in some backwater losec/nullsec system, and I'll do so. I'll get there with a ship and a clone and be sure I actualyl get to see the event. If you force me to move unscouted with 20 thousand other unorganized people at a time where the opponents KNOW I'll be passing through and will be expecting me... then there's pretty little I can do to avoid a slaughter.
Which isn't much fun.

CCP FORCED us "noobs" to proceed through dangerous territory in blobs. We could not do otherwise because we could not reach the site of the event at any other time, nor could we organize reasonably.
The corps/alliances who can readily mount an experienced 100 people fleet are already in null. You have to expect that a pick up fleet made in meves in 20 minutes isn't capable of fighting on par with that, no matter their numbers. Force it to move through enemy territory at a known time through a known route, and you're setting them up to be slaughtered.

That simple.
Sneaky Jack
Kreetikal
#451 - 2013-11-08 12:59:56 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Just dropping in to say thanks for giving us this feedback. We haven't had time to go through it all yet, but we will be doing so as a team and taking a lot of points on board to shape our work in the future. We will also be explaining some things to clear up some misunderstandings we have been noticing. Thanks for your time and patience.



yeah...the BIGGEST being the MISUNDERSTANDING that this was an ORGANIZED LIVE EVENT.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#452 - 2013-11-08 13:03:15 UTC
Killerjock wrote:
"I did not hear that" is one of the primary arguments in this trollfest.

Some of the nullsec badasses keep saying "what did you expect?"

I'll tell you what I expected.

I expected to know where the **** I was going - and no, "nullsec" isn't enough. I was on a clean clone and cheap ship (pve fitted, for sure), but I've flown around 20 hisec systems before finally being told where the event was.... by another player and coming from a tweet and with no confirmation whatsoever. And I'm not even sure it was there for real: I just know if I got there I would have done so after the event was ended.

I expected to see something different than usual - I don't really need CCP intervention or organization to go get myself into a losec gatecamp, I can do that anytime without TIDI and travelling a lot less than 20 systems.

I expected the nodes I would be travelling through to be hardened: instead, I was on a constant flow of 10% nodes. Initially I thought it was an indication that we were on the wrong route, but I'm not so sure anymore.

I expected that when CCP tells me to stage at a certain system, that would be where the event starts. Tell me to stage in some backwater losec/nullsec system, and I'll do so. I'll get there with a ship and a clone and be sure I actualyl get to see the event. If you force me to move unscouted with 20 thousand other unorganized people at a time where the opponents KNOW I'll be passing through and will be expecting me... then there's pretty little I can do to avoid a slaughter.
Which isn't much fun.

CCP FORCED us "noobs" to proceed through dangerous territory in blobs. We could not do otherwise because we could not reach the site of the event at any other time, nor could we organize reasonably.
The corps/alliances who can readily mount an experienced 100 people fleet are already in null. You have to expect that a pick up fleet made in meves in 20 minutes isn't capable of fighting on par with that, no matter their numbers. Force it to move through enemy territory at a known time through a known route, and you're setting them up to be slaughtered.

That simple.


A blob can be extremely powerful if coordinated well. All you really need is a 'sane' fleet composition and an actual fleet commander to deal with a rag-tag lowsec camp. Hell, an actual big blob of ships will disperse a camp on its own with raw firepower. I think you vastly overestimate the combat capacity of pirates and underestimate how much of that slaughter could've been avoided with decent FCs.

If we assume it's only PvE players involved, even an incursion-running commander has enough basics nailed down to know how logis and primaries work. Sure, it may not be a battle-hardened vet that remembers the bob war and commands a bunch of bastards so born-to-kill the first thing they did after birth was tackle the doctor and scream "point!" instead of "mama!", but it might net you some kills or at least a retreat without being slaughtered.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Zim69
Zombie Apocalypse Redux
#453 - 2013-11-08 13:06:58 UTC
Since a Dev decided to stick his head in here, I might as well give my 2isk worth. The "Event" sound like fun...it wasn't. I've lost billions worth of ships in pvp, carriers on down, whatever. Its what this game is all about. Its just amazes me that CCP would go out of their way to humiliate 1000 subscribers like that........good job
Jamison
Southern Gothic
#454 - 2013-11-08 13:23:35 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Just dropping in to say thanks for giving us this feedback. We haven't had time to go through it all yet, but we will be doing so as a team and taking a lot of points on board to shape our work in the future. We will also be explaining some things to clear up some misunderstandings we have been noticing. Thanks for your time and patience.


CCP Goliath, I am really quite suprised with your lack of any information regarding this event, that and the fact you decide to give man hugs to the person who wrote a thread about what they enjoyed bout the event.

Outside of RZR you have a landside of complaints about this event you need to address, these 2 seperate posts were really not the way to do that.

This harkens back to the days when live events were run by players who just used them to give themselves Titans, if you werent around then then I would ask round the office.

So to sum p everything it seems people are saying:

1) told to go to one staging area and then fly to another over 20 jumps away in high TiDi taking over 2 hours , Yes some people went the lowsec route, look how that worked for them.

2) No information from the CCP leads on this at any time, except to say they were leaving

3) no NPC Navies to help out

4) Event was over bfore we even made it to the 3rd location we were supposed to go to.

5) shoving everyone from Sarum Prime into several gatecamps, buffing the KB stats of some nul alliances and pretty much ruining everyone elses day.

Now do I get man hugs to? You know for all the great feedback?

J~
Killerjock
Von Neumann Industries
#455 - 2013-11-08 13:23:59 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
Killerjock wrote:
You have to expect that a pick up fleet made in meves in 20 minutes isn't capable of fighting on par with that, no matter their numbers. Force it to move through enemy territory at a known time through a known route, and you're setting them up to be slaughtered.

That simple.


A blob can be extremely powerful if coordinated well. All you really need is a 'sane' fleet composition and an actual fleet commander to deal with a rag-tag lowsec camp. Hell, an actual big blob of ships will disperse a camp on its own with raw firepower. I think you vastly overestimate the combat capacity of pirates and underestimate how much of that slaughter could've been avoided with decent FCs.

If we assume it's only PvE players involved, even an incursion-running commander has enough basics nailed down to know how logis and primaries work


Trii Seo - don't get me wrong. I agree with you; but you made EXACTLY my point.

I took the liberty to embolden what you mentioned, that we lacked. I got in a fleet where it took 10 minutes to get a FC - we had no logi, no scout, no tackle. Our FC did all he could, bad but we were scattered all over empire. Most people in hisec aren't used to shut up and follow orders, especially from someone you've never seen before. Communications in fleet were overwhelmed with "go to stacmon" "go to ihal" "event is in 8V" "CCP_Goliath twitted this and that". We really had no clue. WE got ordered to move to ihal, and when the counterorder came to go to stacmon we were already in 6 different systems.

To get the fleet together in stacmon took over 30 minutes due to TIDI in hisec systems. Half of our 30 men fleet left before we jumped into losec - and I don't blame them. I would've done so myself, but I wanted a fight.
At that point, we had spent over an hour randomly warping through lakes of molasses to try and get to the "fun".

Now, if you think that kind of blob can mount any fight.... you're more optimistic that I am :) A coordinated blob will be able to mount a fight against an organized fleet. If numbers or quality of ships are a lot better, you can defeat an organized fleet. But with similar numbers and quality, no blob can stand up to an organized fleet.
And this is good; it is as it should be.

Point is most of us were cheap-fitted because we knew we'd lose our ships; most nullsec alliances were "doctrine" fitted since it was normal ops for them. So: better organization, better quality, and for what I've seen in my short trip, bigger numbers as well - I got hit by 23 different T3 ships + the tackle in my ill-fated journey :)
DDymus
DDymus Corporation
#456 - 2013-11-08 13:25:27 UTC
One more carebear to cry :D
I died, I knew it was going to be the case (how ever had time to keep away from the fight (obliviously slaughter)).

Was it last event for me - Deferentially not! I've got separated from fleet, so hadn't enough fun anyways.

All those Null'rs who say that they will always beat highs. im not doubting that point, but given yesterday's event. gate jump mechanics were on your side, gate transports how many - 50 pilots once every 5 sec? and you already have 200+ damage ships lined up in optimals (and yep with some experienced target callers). imagine all of this higsec people (there were much more than 2000 i'd imagine) just appear at once. but yep, you know mechanics, you set up perfect camp in bottle neck, you had reinforcements just in case, all done well, but from event point of view - it was strange, bacause nobdy really understand what is the point and the goal to achieve (so I considered my personal goal to die for greater good) and ye, i died to the guns of desperated highsec bears i guess.

next one - count me in! all sort of fun is fun, traveling in slomo also.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#457 - 2013-11-08 13:29:35 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Just dropping in to say thanks for giving us this feedback. We haven't had time to go through it all yet, but we will be doing so as a team and taking a lot of points on board to shape our work in the future. We will also be explaining some things to clear up some misunderstandings we have been noticing. Thanks for your time and patience.


That is a pathetic response, even for a first one.
In Eve terms, your response is the equivalent of Haliburton and BP after the DeepWater Horizon disaster saying to the world "thanks for your input on our environmental record, we will take it under advisement."

A few things:

1. Why not form up on the high sec staging point into low/null, so people who did not clue in that this roam was going to null immediately (I read the forces of evil post by CCP and stood down when the destination of Ihal was announced), would at least seen that from the form-up point.
2. Why was CCP announcing via Twitter destinations, as opposed to in-game.
3. Why was the Live Events channel not locked down, as they are on Sisi, when an event starts, so trolls and spies can't spread disinformation.
4. Why were clear instructions not given to use the Live Events channel as your primary source of information.
5. How could you guys not reinforce the nodes, given you knew precisely where people were going.
6. Given the size of this event, and you guys knew HOURS before 18:30 that it was going to be nuts (Sarum Prime was maxed out 70 minutes before the official kick-off time), why not pull in people to co-ordinate fleets.
7. Why not let people know that this was a null sec roam, so they ALL could fit MwD's to burn through bubbles.
8. Given that you KNEW, as any informed player would, that the null sec campers would have every planet bubbled, as well as the sun, why not have an CCP employee in every fleet as a scout providing a "relative" safespot, in the middle of deep space, as ANY competent FC would, if he knew where he was going beforehand.

9. And lastly, WHY ON EARTH SUBJECT THOUSANDS OF HIGH SEC PLAYERS TO NULL SEC IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!
You ran 2 events simultaneously.. You could easily have had one in null sec, and the other in high sec, or even low sec.
But no, you set it up as a slaughterhouse for the ***** and giggles of null sec players only, knowing full well the carnage that would ensue. No matter what CCP says, your actions prove that you hate your high sec subscription base, and consider your null sec subscribers as the only ones of consequence.

Truly pathetic.
Malception
Dutch Rudder Trading Company
#458 - 2013-11-08 13:34:39 UTC
OMG, this is great! CCP, I wasn't even there, but I've been laughing my ass off all morning, so by all means continue these. In the future you should do more to ensure that all the bears believe they'll be safe then allow them to be slaughtered more. For the love of God, please lead them into wormhole space. Too many escaped the wrath of the nullsec fleets. We must have total annihilation!

BOB WILLS IT!!!
Cheesy Feet
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#459 - 2013-11-08 13:38:43 UTC
Malception wrote:
OMG, this is great! CCP, I wasn't even there, but I've been laughing my ass off all morning, so by all means continue these. In the future you should do more to ensure that all the bears believe they'll be safe then allow them to be slaughtered more. For the love of God, please lead them into wormhole space. Too many escaped the wrath of the nullsec fleets. We must have total annihilation!

BOB WILLS IT!!!

What a plank! If only a few hundred players quit because of this then that's less potential targets to shoot for the rst of us and you think that's funny?

I wasn't anywhere near this disaster but it's still a nail in EVE's coffin as far as I'm concerned
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#460 - 2013-11-08 13:54:15 UTC
Killerjock wrote:

I took the liberty to embolden what you mentioned, that we lacked. I got in a fleet where it took 10 minutes to get a FC - we had no logi, no scout, no tackle. Our FC did all he could, bad but we were scattered all over empire. Most people in hisec aren't used to shut up and follow orders, especially from someone you've never seen before. Communications in fleet were overwhelmed with "go to stacmon" "go to ihal" "event is in 8V" "CCP_Goliath twitted this and that". We really had no clue. WE got ordered to move to ihal, and when the counterorder came to go to stacmon we were already in 6 different systems.


I suppose it's true, most fleets - even chilled out 'event' non-strategic runs like this one keep comms discipline. I can't help but get the feeling it was semi-deliberate.

If you look at the titan event, CCP spawned capitals and whatnot in hisec, made certain to swing the battle 'their way' regardless of what happened. This time it could've gone either way - with ISD vindicators out of the game on 8V side there was nothing stopping us from opening fire on the lab, so the event could've ended both ways.

"Fleet Commanders" of both empire forces in 8V- charged into the battle. Republic broadsword fell first, destroyed by BNI and we took out the Gallente Phobos. Both pilots have been podded. All they really did was scream "DESTROY THE FACILITY" while Serpentis delivered some mighty mustache-twirling insults. (Complete with 'dear dear' etc. not that there's anything wrong with that.)

It all looks like a play to make it obvious: nations no longer have the power to influence the outer regions. The Alliances call shots here. And what better way to drive a point than to "lead" people into slaughter?

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph