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Bat Country Pandemic Horde 19,001
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Horde Likes received: 19,001	#5161 - 2013-10-09 16:43:00 UTC Joe Risalo wrote: and PG.... My Golem has almost maxed CPU and PG with two empty high slots that I can't even fit a salvager in.... I am managing to get away with the PG on the kronos.

baltec1

Bat Country

Pandemic Horde

Likes received: 19,001

#5162 - 2013-10-09 16:44:40 UTC

Sentient Blade wrote:

Having played about a little earlier on, I found that the Bastion module dropping your speed to 0 is basically a suicide-switch vs anyone that has even basic funding (read: can deploy a dreadnaught or two) as they're just getting blapped over and over on SISI when we're flying them into the testing area.

The tanking seemed pretty good, a dual-XLASB Golem tanked a hell of a lot... but still, it died in a hurry vs even a single dread. I suspect a single rail moros or nag could take out an entire fleet of bastion fit ships, with them having no hope of retaliating.

People wont be dropping dreads often on Tranq.

Joe Risalo

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,261

#5163 - 2013-10-09 16:52:31 UTC

baltec1 wrote:

Sentient Blade wrote:

People wont be dropping dreads often on Tranq.

Not to mention not many people are going to bring a billion isk ship into a large fight and/or a situation where capitals are possible....


Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State Likes received: 1,261	#5164 - 2013-10-09 16:53:43 UTC baltec1 wrote: Joe Risalo wrote: and PG.... My Golem has almost maxed CPU and PG with two empty high slots that I can't even fit a salvager in.... I am managing to get away with the PG on the kronos. yeah, however, missile/shield boats never have much PG cause they don't use much... It's changed a bit for the Golem..

Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 57
Mer88 Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire Likes received: 57	#5165 - 2013-10-09 17:04:43 UTC I tested the cruise golem missile range with the following 2 x t2 velocity rig base : 199km Bastion : 231km 1x t2 velocity 1x t2 flight time rig base: 203km Bastion: 249km 2x t2 fuel rigs Base: 199km Bastion 249km The ratio should be the same for torpedos.


Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State Likes received: 1,261	#5166 - 2013-10-09 17:11:42 UTC Mer88 wrote: I tested the cruise golem missile range with the following 2 x t2 velocity rig base : 199km Bastion : 231km 1x t2 velocity 1x t2 flight time rig base: 203km Bastion: 249km 2x t2 fuel rigs Base: 199km Bastion 249km The ratio should be the same for torpedos. Try it... it costs 100 isk for modules on test server


Mer88 Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire Likes received: 57	#5167 - 2013-10-09 17:13:17 UTC i cant use t2 torps on test server that is why i only try cruise but i can try with torp meta 4

Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 46
Shantetha Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic Likes received: 46	#5168 - 2013-10-09 17:15:22 UTC i guess i need to install a sisi client, :( i need more hd space.

Taegessia

Doomheim

Likes received: 8

#5169 - 2013-10-09 17:29:22 UTC | Edited by: Taegessia

Mer88 wrote:

I tested the cruise golem missile range with the following

2 x t2 velocity rig
base : 199km
Bastion : 231km

1x t2 velocity 1x t2 flight time rig
base: 203km
Bastion: 249km

2x t2 fuel rigs
Base: 199km
Bastion 249km

The ratio should be the same for torpedos.

Appreciate the feedback but this doesnt seem likely. 249km with bastion on means that the bonus from bastion is only 3%. Someone can achieve 239km max currently on TQ and if add the 5% range hardwiring, can reach as max as 249km. Some of your missile range skils are not maxed out, there is no other explanation

"Please add an option to automatically repackage & stack our currently unpackaged items in our item hangar".

baltec1

Bat Country

Pandemic Horde

Likes received: 19,001

#5170 - 2013-10-09 17:34:04 UTC

Taegessia wrote:

Appreciate the feedback but this doesnt seem likely. 249km with bastion on means that the bonus from bastion is only 3%. Someone can achieve 239km max currently on TQ and if add the 5% range hardwiring, can reach as max as 249km. Some of your misiile range skils are not maxed out, there is no other explanation.

You cant do anything past that point anyway so its not much of an issue.

marVLs

Likes received: 764

#5171 - 2013-10-09 17:34:49 UTC | Edited by: marVLs

CCP Ytterbium wrote:

Quoting myself not to leave you in the dark.

CCP Ytterbium wrote:

So far, what I can see based on the actual testing of those ships, is that the Bastion mode is good, but that the hulls were most likely nerfed a bit too much.

I agree with the drone flexibility - while I don't see them necessarily keep the TQ bandwidth, they can use moar dronebay.

Also considering reverting some of the other hull nerfs, will let you know when we have more details (we aren't going to change their role though). And sorry to say, but version 2 with web bonuses is not coming back, it just didn't fit that well with the role and Bastion mode.

1. What about that stacking penalized bonuses for range in Bastion? Can You change them to non-stacking? This is most important for Vargur (as little more PG).
2. Second thing is that range bonus (only one bonus) for missiles, can You buff it to 50% so torps will be viable?
3. What with that tractor bonus? Change it? Buff it?

Imo hulls need to be faster with better warp speed and have more slots or 3rd rig slot instead of 8th high slot.

And yeah bastion is good in tanking but not useful and not good with range bonuses because they stacking...

Mer88

Royal Amarr Institute

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 57

#5172 - 2013-10-09 17:36:44 UTC | Edited by: Mer88

Joe Risalo wrote:

Mer88 wrote:

Try it...

it costs 100 isk for modules on test server

for T1 torps, keep in mind my skills only average

2 x t2 velocity rig
base : 36km
Bastion : 42km

1x t2 velocity 1x t2 flight time rig
base: 37km
Bastion: 45km

2x t2 fuel rigs
Base: 36km
Bastion 45km

i think with 2x flight time rigs, your actual range will be much closer to the listed.


Taegessia Doomheim Likes received: 8	#5173 - 2013-10-09 17:36:57 UTC baltec1 wrote: You cant do anything past that point anyway so its not much of an issue. I know that, i was just commenting in relation to the context in which the initial discussion was placed. The real issue is the range with torp rage not cruise. "Please add an option to automatically repackage & stack our currently unpackaged items in our item hangar".

MinutemanKirk

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 51

#5174 - 2013-10-09 17:54:23 UTC

I'm sure it's been stated before but I'm not wading through 250+ pages to find posts.

Make a second T2 BS (using the old "tier 3" hulls) for PvP and let Marauders be a purely PvE ship. Without a significant cap bonus in their current form, the bastion module will simply be a death sentence for anyone (even in small gangs) who use them. A curse with 3 med neuts will drain a single rep Kronos dry in 3 minutes with the Kronos running two heavy NOS' and a heavy cap booster with Navy 800's. Even a Paladin (with the cap bonus only gains an extra 30 seconds. This cap weakness WITH the sensor strength hole will mean that even a couple of T1 cruisers can find multiple holes in what is supposed to be an OP tank ship.

T2 ships are about specialization. Why are we trying to specialize a single ship to accomplish two ENTIRELY different objectives? We don't see recons being balanced to run incursions nor do we see black ops being considered for their mining potential. Could both those shiptype do those things? Sure. But that's not what they are being DESIGNED for. In just the same way, I can't think of putting over a bil into a small fleet ship that isn't "designed" purely for combat when other alternative are available (like pirate ships). There is nothing about either proposed design that I can't get from other ships except for a module that makes my ship look cool and gives me moderately more range and tanking ability.

This is, of course, speaking from a PvP point of view, however, trying to make one horse pull two carts at once will only end up in killing the horse. Shoot, even just pulling one cart can be too much at times...


baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Horde Likes received: 19,001	#5175 - 2013-10-09 18:14:37 UTC MinutemanKirk wrote: Make a second T2 BS (using the old "tier 3" hulls) for PvP and let Marauders be a purely PvE ship CCP do not want a PvE only combat ship. Hence why this change is happening.

MinutemanKirk

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 51

#5176 - 2013-10-09 18:29:14 UTC

baltec1 wrote:

MinutemanKirk wrote:

Make a second T2 BS (using the old "tier 3" hulls) for PvP and let Marauders be a purely PvE ship

CCP do not want a PvE only combat ship. Hence why this change is happening.

Then I'd like to see when the changes to Cov Ops happen so I can lead a fleet of them in glorious combat. Oh wait...

I think what you meant is to say CCP doesn't want a purely PvMISISON ship. As far as CCP not wanting them, I'm assuming you are referring to this:

CCP Ytterbium wrote:

Marauders were initially released during the Trinity expansion in 2007 and were aimed for PvE activities. However, as time passed and we rebalanced other classes, especially the Pirate Battleships, they lost appeal as a whole.

We also believe that designing them for a very specific activity doesn't fit the emergent nature of EVE...

Because this is entirely contradictory... If they aren't meant for a very specific activity, then almost EVERY T2 ship that has been re balanced to date is outside of that statement making it irrelevant.

Mioelnir

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 199

#5177 - 2013-10-09 18:37:12 UTC | Edited by: Mioelnir

I'd like to revoice my plea to not make the combat module 'Bastion Module' dependent on the science skill 'High Energy Physics'. You have just started to untangle the skilltree so beautifully.

I realize there is historic precedent with Graviton Physics I for Warp Disrupt Probes that got expanded into levels IV and V for the HIC module. But, this requirement is mostly RP-based on the name of the skill; and was created in the weird skill requirement times. When modules were created that depend on T2 ship skills in a totally different progression (Triage module, I am looking at you) and the (back then titan-exclusive) Wormhole Generation required scan probing skills - again, solely based on the RP-fluff of the skill name.

I do not think that is a tradition that must, or even should be honored and upheld. High Energy Physics as a skill is for:
- gaining HEP datacores
- tech 2 invention of blueprints requiring HEP datacores
- manufacturing advanced construction components
- manufacturing capital advanced construction components

All of this is so far outside the skill progression path that should lead you to a Marauder; honestly, it is not even funny.

Marauders already require Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5, so adding a new skill "Tactical Hull Reconfiguration" or "Tactical Defensive Reconfiguration" right along the existing "Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration" and "Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration" skills would be so incredibly easy and wonderfully consistent, I am at a loss for words at the prospect of this opportunity being squandered away.

[Edit]
Clarification: the Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration is only listed for the sake of the naming consistency. Please do not go down the bonkers requirements road of it, putting the bastion skill on top of the Covert Ops skill.


baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Horde Likes received: 19,001	#5178 - 2013-10-09 18:50:11 UTC MinutemanKirk wrote: Then I'd like to see when the changes to Cov Ops happen so I can lead a fleet of them in glorious combat. Oh wait... They have been used for probing down pvp targets in almost every fleet from the day they were added.


Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State Likes received: 1,261	#5179 - 2013-10-09 18:54:38 UTC I'm still not a huge fan of the MJD bonus... It's too niche in pve

Allandri

Liandri Industrial

Likes received: 73

#5180 - 2013-10-09 18:54:46 UTC

Mioelnir wrote:

Science skills are useful for passive RP generation, and as such more datacores get dropped onto the market or used for invention

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