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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5061 - 2013-10-08 15:44:51 UTC
Hanna Cyrus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


90% of the posts are from PvE players who want to do missions even faster than now.


Ok, i get a mission. I have to undock and warp to my destination, that is maybe from 1 to 5 Jumps away (in the region i fly).
With the Inertia nerf and the warpspeed nerf, it's total cool to jump around. You lost dps trough less bandwith for drones. Then in the mission i have a few gates (i have to warp!), after finishing it, yes! I have to warp back...

I think, you don't use this ships really - or even have the skills to use it? Have you tested it? Even when the Bastion thing gets a little extra dps, the mission runner will be slower. If you can't test themselfs don't post here, thanks.



I have tested, and the warp mechanics don't make much difference at all.

With gates, my Golem goes 106m/s.
I was able to drop a tank mod thanks to bastion, and now fit an MWD(not MJD).
I go about 600m/s to the gate.

Thanks to dropping a tank mod, I can actually get to gates with my Golem faster than I used to be able to.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5062 - 2013-10-08 15:45:53 UTC
Hanna Cyrus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


90% of the posts are from PvE players who want to do missions even faster than now.


Ok, i get a mission. I have to undock and warp to my destination, that is maybe from 1 to 5 Jumps away (in the region i fly).
With the Inertia nerf and the warpspeed nerf, it's total cool to jump around. You lost dps trough less bandwith for drones. Then in the mission i have a few gates (i have to warp!), after finishing it, yes! I have to warp back...

I think, you don't use this ships really - or even have the skills to use it? Have you tested it? Even when the Bastion thing gets a little extra dps, the mission runner will be slower. If you can't test themselfs don't post here, thanks.



As I said, PvE min/max players.
TheFace Asano
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5063 - 2013-10-08 15:46:58 UTC
marVLs wrote:
Let's see, warp speed changes: 99% satisfied with it, same goes with other Rubicon features, changes but on marauders? 99% players are disappointed/dont wan't it/says it's bad.

So how does that say about these changes? How many times players agreed on something in such a huge percentage numbers?


TheFace Asano <== no they don't need bigger drones bandwigh and vargur is tbh the worst of all now, and it gains almost nothing of range in bastion, go test it, even there's a EFT files with Rubicon changes


was in route to null but i got sleepy :) I will tonight. It has a good 30km more falloff than my mach on TQ. We can disagree on the drone bay thing, I think it gives a certain amount of synergy with the design. It is a T2 ship it should have more damage than the T1 / Faction as that is how all the other lines are from frig to cruiser.
marVLs
#5064 - 2013-10-08 15:52:21 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
marVLs wrote:
... vargur is tbh the worst of all now, and it gains almost nothing of range in bastion, go test it, even there's a EFT files with Rubicon changes


EFT is kind of useless compared to field testing on SiSi, don't you think so?



From when 74km falloff in eft is different from 74km falloff in game? How hard is to understand that You don't need to be in game to quickly check how you gain almost no range in bastion?


Joe Risalo <== i was refering to overall dissatisfaction about those changes, bastion or hulls. As was said before marauders with those changes are worse than before for their main activities: lvl4s, incursions.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#5065 - 2013-10-08 15:57:27 UTC
So was on the sisi server today. First what did CCP do to my Golem? It's more ugly then the old Scorp model. Give me back my Raven body and face, I'm good with keeping the cool thing going on with the new Golem's neck, but everything else change it back! Next the bastion mode, it's nice having more defense, but really it doesn't help much at all with missiles, no extra range, no better with sign radius or damage or RofF or anything, but it does help guns, COME ON?! Also the bastion mode just doesn't help defense enough to matter, even in PvE sanctums or 10 of 10 will rock a Marauder in bastion mode.
TheFace Asano
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5066 - 2013-10-08 15:57:40 UTC
marVLs wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
marVLs wrote:
... vargur is tbh the worst of all now, and it gains almost nothing of range in bastion, go test it, even there's a EFT files with Rubicon changes


EFT is kind of useless compared to field testing on SiSi, don't you think so?



From when 74km falloff in eft is different from 74km falloff in game? How hard is to understand that You don't need to be in game to quickly check how you gain almost no range in bastion?


Joe Risalo <== i was refering to overall dissatisfaction about those changes, bastion or hulls. As was said before marauders with those changes are worse than before for their main activities: lvl4s, incursions.


I did check in game and the falloff increased to almost 100km falloff.
marVLs
#5067 - 2013-10-08 16:06:43 UTC
TheFace Asano wrote:

I did check in game and the falloff increased to almost 100km falloff.


What ammo? How many TC?

Because when using 3xTC with EMP ammo FallOff goes with bastion from 73km to 78km? And with 2xTC (why would anyone fly with only 2 i dunno, it's just bad) it jumps from 63km to 71km. So are those numbers worth to stand still instead of burning to target and increasing DPS? I guess there's no need to comment more...
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5068 - 2013-10-08 16:09:10 UTC
TheFace Asano wrote:
marVLs wrote:
Let's see, warp speed changes: 99% satisfied with it, same goes with other Rubicon features, changes but on marauders? 99% players are disappointed/dont wan't it/says it's bad.

So how does that say about these changes? How many times players agreed on something in such a huge percentage numbers?


TheFace Asano <== no they don't need bigger drones bandwigh and vargur is tbh the worst of all now, and it gains almost nothing of range in bastion, go test it, even there's a EFT files with Rubicon changes


was in route to null but i got sleepy :) I will tonight. It has a good 30km more falloff than my mach on TQ. We can disagree on the drone bay thing, I think it gives a certain amount of synergy with the design. It is a T2 ship it should have more damage than the T1 / Faction as that is how all the other lines are from frig to cruiser.


I'm fine with the damage as it is, however, considering these ships focus on ONLY tank and dps, I think a dps buff may be called for.

Pirate bs's get high dps with mobility and utility, so I don't see them conflicting with each other.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5069 - 2013-10-08 16:10:44 UTC
marVLs wrote:


Joe Risalo <== i was refering to overall dissatisfaction about those changes, bastion or hulls. As was said before marauders with those changes are worse than before for their main activities: lvl4s, incursions.


I disagree again.

Well, at least on the part of lvl 4's.
They're way better at lvl 4's than they were before.

Incursions, ehh, this is where the dissatisfaction with the hull itself comes into play.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5070 - 2013-10-08 16:14:03 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
So was on the sisi server today. First what did CCP do to my Golem? It's more ugly then the old Scorp model. Give me back my Raven body and face, I'm good with keeping the cool thing going on with the new Golem's neck, but everything else change it back! Next the bastion mode, it's nice having more defense, but really it doesn't help much at all with missiles, no extra range, no better with sign radius or damage or RofF or anything, but it does help guns, COME ON?! Also the bastion mode just doesn't help defense enough to matter, even in PvE sanctums or 10 of 10 will rock a Marauder in bastion mode.


HUH??

With torps, bastion doesn't help much.
With cruise, bastion give another 40+ km, though not important.

As far as tank... Dude.... Toss on a xl booster and you'll be boosting 20% shields or more per cycle.
TheFace Asano
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5071 - 2013-10-08 16:14:51 UTC
marVLs wrote:
TheFace Asano wrote:

I did check in game and the falloff increased to almost 100km falloff.


What ammo? How many TC?

Because when using 3xTC with EMP ammo FallOff goes with bastion from 73km to 78km? And with 2xTC (why would anyone fly with only 2 i dunno, it's just bad) it jumps from 63km to 71km. So are those numbers worth to stand still instead of burning to target and increasing DPS? I guess there's no need to comment more...


I will double check ranges / ammo type in game tonight. You might be bugged. I only had a TC and a TE
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5072 - 2013-10-08 16:16:49 UTC
marVLs wrote:
TheFace Asano wrote:

I did check in game and the falloff increased to almost 100km falloff.


What ammo? How many TC?

Because when using 3xTC with EMP ammo FallOff goes with bastion from 73km to 78km? And with 2xTC (why would anyone fly with only 2 i dunno, it's just bad) it jumps from 63km to 71km. So are those numbers worth to stand still instead of burning to target and increasing DPS? I guess there's no need to comment more...


Currently, bastion range is stacking penalized.
So, you're not getting anything out of one of your TC's if not 2 of them
Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5073 - 2013-10-08 16:19:04 UTC
what if bastion mode do the complete 180 of what it is doing now?

when bastion mode is on,

-100% repair/boost
-30% resist
-25% weapon range


+100% velocity

+200% agility
Hanna Cyrus
Spessart Rebellen
#5074 - 2013-10-08 16:19:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Hanna Cyrus
TheFace Asano wrote:


I did check in game and the falloff increased to almost 100km falloff.


Vargur:
I got with 2 TC (T2 with range script) and EMP L - 4 + 69 km without and 5 + 75 km in Bastion
i got with 2 TC (T2 with range script) and Barrage L - 8 + 106 km without and 9 + 116 km in Bastion

Kronos:
I got with 2 TC (T2 with range script) and Antimatter L - 5 + 36 km without and 7 + 42 km in Bastion
I got with 2 TC (T2 with range script) and Null L - 16 + 59 km without and 19 + 68 km in Bastion

And still i get the weapon timer, everytime i use the Bastion mode. That makes it impossible to use a gate or dock...

Edit: Optimal added and Kronos the same
Vorseger
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5075 - 2013-10-08 16:23:41 UTC
Anyone like the idea of having Marauders be Heavy Assault Battleships? Bastion or not?
TheFace Asano
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5076 - 2013-10-08 16:24:22 UTC
Hanna Cyrus wrote:
TheFace Asano wrote:


I did check in game and the falloff increased to almost 100km falloff.


I got with 2 TC (T2 with range script) and EMP L - 74 km falloff in Bastion mode and without 69 km
i got with 2 TC (T2 with range script) and Barrage L - 116 km falloff in Bastion mode and without 106 km

And still i get the weapon timer, everytime i use the Bastion mode. That makes it impossible to use a gate or dock...


Yup that looks about right on the ranges.

Weapons timer was in the original proposal. That is on purpose.
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
#5077 - 2013-10-08 16:27:29 UTC
Mer88 wrote:
what if bastion mode do the complete 180 of what it is doing now?

when bastion mode is on,

-100% repair/boost
-30% resist
-25% weapon range


+100% velocity

+200% agility




There the issue there is that subtracting percentages is way more harmful than adding them. +100% is doubling something. -100% is completely removing it. You might want that to say -50% which is maybe what you had in mind. I also don't like the idea of having negative resists in some areas. If the numbers were more in line I might go out and get one of these blown up while burning around and laughing at people who tried to web me, only once though.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5078 - 2013-10-08 16:29:00 UTC
Aglais wrote:
Well it seems that Marauders are nearly invulnerable if you fit them right.

I don't really know what to make of this.


against a blappy dread?

those seem to be the only real counter to them...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
#5079 - 2013-10-08 16:29:48 UTC
Vorseger wrote:
Anyone like the idea of having Marauders be Heavy Assault Battleships? Bastion or not?



Sure, with the new rapid heavy missile launcher full T2 resists, ect. I use a Cerberus for many of the lvl 4s that require a lot of travel, I would love to use my Golem for them instead.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5080 - 2013-10-08 16:31:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:



The idea is to not make them as dedicated pve ships.


for high sec wars and situations where you do not have to worry about capital ships they are pretty nice for pvp...

i was busy killing lots of sub caps with the pvp fit kronos till i warped onto 4 blappy dreads and then i was dead.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.