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Dev Blog: Player Owned Customs offices in Hi-Sec

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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#381 - 2013-10-03 17:12:45 UTC
it leaves you in danger of being SNIPED
Hoofd Klant
GweNosCo
#382 - 2013-10-03 17:14:57 UTC
Fix Lag wrote:
Pirate's Bunny wrote:
Fix Lag wrote:
Highsec is not being nerfed as this transfers the money from POCO customs fees from NPCs to players.


It doesn't transfer it, it takes more and gives it to player, npc tax is still on it.


There's a fairly small tax for the NPCs to prevent 0% havens and to guarantee lowsec POCOs are superior, but the gist of it is players now have the power to collect the bulk of the POCO transfer tax.


Actually without the skill (which most new bros won't have) it's 10% to export and 5% to import plus what ever additional tax the corp that owns the POCO puts on it....read the devblog it's in paragraph 7.
Khador Vess
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#383 - 2013-10-03 17:15:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Khador Vess
Wraith Lamented wrote:

"you can still play how you want?" NO, you cant! No longer will small potato guys like me be able to conduct industry unfettered in HiSec, without the imposition of mega-alliances and/or large corps. I NEED PI to fund my other adventures! "Well, if you have to rely on PI, you're doing something wrong...." Bug off! Says YOU. This isn't more freedom: its more pandering to sociopaths to enable them to further coerce and manipulate other players who do not have the experience or the inclination to engage in conflict. Some people STAY in HiSec, and out of Lowsec or Null, precisely because they want to avoid sociopathic aggression.

This is just so typical: the older players who have ALREADY MADE THEIR FORTUNES now get to dump on newer players trying to get a little ahead... in space that should be a relative safe haven.

THIS is a bridge too far. TOO FAR.


Firstly:

You seem to be under the illusion that life or indeed internet spaceships is meant to be fair and owes you something... newsflash... it doesnt.

Secondly:

Goons, RvB, etc. will pick and choose what they own and where... if they make the tax too much then people will go elsewhere. To think that even all the big alliances together could get 100% coverage of hi-sec where they cannot defend it it naive in the extreme.

If avoiding sociopaths is genuinely a concern of yours within this game then can i introduce you to the log out button, it avoids all sociopaths completely. Also, if PI is your main or even a significant income then my friend unless your in a wormhole or null YOURDOINGITWRONG



tldr: suck it up, grab some land, if someone tries to take it away fight or flee, make friends and stand together or fold and walk away. Hell RvB are always out for fun wardecs so why not talk to our glorious leaders about our very competitive war assistance rates. We might even make you "an offer you cant refuse" for your POCO.
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#384 - 2013-10-03 17:44:51 UTC
Mangala Solaris wrote:
Shamus en Divalone wrote:
In order to erect a new POCO for a corporation in high sec would standings with that empire be required?


No.

Well, it should be required.

Also, the NPC tax should be converted into a cost of operation for the owner of the POCO.

Instead of PI dude paying X% to NPC AND Y% to the POCO holder, the POCO holder should
pay the NPC cost, and build that into what they in turn charge the PI people to use their
POCO. This way if they set their tax too high and noone uses their POCO's they are on the
hook for the cost, thus preventing(or at least slowing) certain groups from holding HS POCO's
just to set unrealistic taxes with the intent of driving up certain material costs.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#385 - 2013-10-03 17:50:27 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Mangala Solaris wrote:
Shamus en Divalone wrote:
In order to erect a new POCO for a corporation in high sec would standings with that empire be required?


No.

Well, it should be required.

Also, the NPC tax should be converted into a cost of operation for the owner of the POCO.

Instead of PI dude paying X% to NPC AND Y% to the POCO holder, the POCO holder should
pay the NPC cost, and build that into what they in turn charge the PI people to use their
POCO. This way if they set their tax too high and noone uses their POCO's they are on the
hook for the cost, thus preventing(or at least slowing) certain groups from holding HS POCO's
just to set unrealistic taxes with the intent of driving up certain material costs.

fyi

under this ridiculous suggestion

if the poco was not used

the npc tax bill to the pocohaver would be zero (0) isk

this would have a net change of precisely bupkis and would not serve to punish owning large numbers of pocos like you are poorly attempting to make happen
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#386 - 2013-10-03 18:07:52 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Soulpirate wrote:
Mangala Solaris wrote:
Shamus en Divalone wrote:
In order to erect a new POCO for a corporation in high sec would standings with that empire be required?


No.

Well, it should be required.

Also, the NPC tax should be converted into a cost of operation for the owner of the POCO.

Instead of PI dude paying X% to NPC AND Y% to the POCO holder, the POCO holder should
pay the NPC cost, and build that into what they in turn charge the PI people to use their
POCO. This way if they set their tax too high and noone uses their POCO's they are on the
hook for the cost, thus preventing(or at least slowing) certain groups from holding HS POCO's
just to set unrealistic taxes with the intent of driving up certain material costs.

fyi

under this ridiculous suggestion

if the poco was not used

the npc tax bill to the pocohaver would be zero (0) isk

this would have a net change of precisely bupkis and would not serve to punish owning large numbers of pocos like you are poorly attempting to make happen

What I meant was build a cost into owning the POCO that the owner would have to factor in to
what they charge people to use it.

So, if you say, I dunno... wanted to hold all the lava planets in HS and lock everyone out to drive
up the resource prices, you should be paying through the nose to hold all those inactive POCO's.
Khador Vess
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#387 - 2013-10-03 18:42:44 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:

So, if you say, I dunno... wanted to hold all the lava planets in HS and lock everyone out to drive
up the resource prices, you should be paying through the nose to hold all those inactive POCO's.


you already have because your POCO cost you 100m isk to make and upgrade. If no one uses it, you have 5, 10, 20% of sweet FA
Pheadra Aurilen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#388 - 2013-10-03 18:46:33 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Mangala Solaris wrote:
Shamus en Divalone wrote:
In order to erect a new POCO for a corporation in high sec would standings with that empire be required?


No.


Also, the NPC tax should be converted into a cost of operation for the owner of the POCO.

Instead of PI dude paying X% to NPC AND Y% to the POCO holder, the POCO holder should
pay the NPC cost, and build that into what they in turn charge the PI people to use their
POCO. This way if they set their tax too high and noone uses their POCO's they are on the
hook for the cost, thus preventing(or at least slowing) certain groups from holding HS POCO's
just to set unrealistic taxes with the intent of driving up certain material costs.


This would actually be much closer to RW historical examples of the privatisation of tax collection, such as Tax Farming. Typically a Tax Farmer would buy the right to collect the taxes in a region from the Government for a particular period of time. This suited both parties, the Tax Farmer would obviously hope to make more than they paid for the right from the taxes they collected, the Government, on the other hand, would get cash up front without needing to employ its own officials, as well as transferring the risks associated with any economic downturn to the Tax Farmer.
Digger Dan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#389 - 2013-10-03 18:53:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Digger Dan
Should there be a niche for low-intensity players who want to do a little PI for make-to-use production?

I started doing PI to get a dependable supply of ingredients for small-scale T2 production, for my own use and maybe, eventually, for sharing with pick-up gangs, using T2 BPCs I invent myself, with datacores from my research agents, decryptors from Data sites I run, AsteroidStuff I mine and refine myself, etc. I hope to ninja-mine wormholes for Megacyte, as I used to do in null-sec until the gate-camps became impassible. Should I be forced to grind (mining, ratting, whatever) to generate ISK so I can buy PI-Stuff, as well as MoonGooStuff, from the cartels?

The existing rocket-launch facility would be ok for small-scale exporting, but maybe there could be small-scale importing too?

How about a T1 disposable Smuggler Landing Container? Perhaps a family of SLCs, in various sizes?

Perhaps Launchpads should be able to launch larger rockets than ControlCenters?

I guess I still have to buy MoonGooStuff for T2 production, so maybe I'm just fooling myself about being able to make-to-use. Guess I've been counting on income from PI to finance my MoonGooStuff purchases.

I suppose the whole small-scale-PI business will become moot soon anyway, when CCP make all PI planetside installations conquerable or destroyable by Dust 514 players.

Plainly, IMDOINGITWRONG, for values of WRONG, and should be sent to Room 101 until I doubleplusgoodthink.
Mel Hython
Akaram Technologies
#390 - 2013-10-03 19:03:19 UTC
Please, stop to giving more and more part of the game to the large corps/alliances.

I love this game, and I have being playing it a lot of years, but i have no time to waste in boring things like watch for the frontier of my alliance, or being a servant of the big bosses. I want to do my little industrial work whenever i can.

The new skill is absurd if the player can put their own POCOs and set abussive tax for blocking any 'interesting' planet.

Please, limit heavily the amount of tax -no more than the double of the current level- the player can fix.

And, please, give us a tool to identify the origin of which ever product of the market, one easy and obvius tools -like a filter- if the war is possible in all the aspect of the game i demand that economical boycott to the big bosses.

WE REALLY NEED A TOOL TO DO BOYCOTT. PLEASE CREATE IT.

If you want war every where, accept that the economical war is a way to do it.
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#391 - 2013-10-03 19:33:13 UTC
Khador Vess wrote:
Soulpirate wrote:

So, if you say, I dunno... wanted to hold all the lava planets in HS and lock everyone out to drive
up the resource prices, you should be paying through the nose to hold all those inactive POCO's.


you already have because your POCO cost you 100m isk to make and upgrade. If no one uses it, you have 5, 10, 20% of sweet FA

You're confusing startup costs with operating costs of which there is none atm for the POCO owner.

No standing required + No operating cost to the POCO owner = Needs fixing

However, it wont change, because the people who hatched this idea are the very ones who plan
on abusing it.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#392 - 2013-10-03 19:34:05 UTC
Mel Hython wrote:

WE REALLY NEED A TOOL TO DO BOYCOTT. PLEASE CREATE IT.

If you want war every where, accept that the economical war is a way to do it.

we can crush everyone everywhere but we are completely unable to create shell corporations or use npc alts

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#393 - 2013-10-03 19:40:50 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Mel Hython wrote:

WE REALLY NEED A TOOL TO DO BOYCOTT. PLEASE CREATE IT.

If you want war every where, accept that the economical war is a way to do it.

we can crush everyone everywhere but we are completely unable to create shell corporations or use npc alts


You with your silly logic. I mean golly it is almost like they can not buy all things T2 now!

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#394 - 2013-10-03 21:18:09 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Khador Vess wrote:
[quote=Soulpirate]

You're confusing startup costs with operating costs of which there is none atm for the POCO owner.

No standing required + No operating cost to the POCO owner = Needs fixing

I dunno about you but I feel like the cost of the POCO, the wardec costs to clear it, and the costs to defend and replace the poco count as operating costs to me

just sayin
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#395 - 2013-10-03 21:18:53 UTC
but under your fantasy world all the materiel and manpower we have to expend to create your nightmare scenario are free

if only
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#396 - 2013-10-03 21:23:47 UTC
If the 500m is really that big of a hang up then just leave your Comorants at home and keep searching the couch for change

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Masazak
Sleep Eazy
#397 - 2013-10-03 21:29:51 UTC
This is the death blow to HS PI. Not impressed.

Also, What is to stop ALL the offices from being blown up on day one and NOT rebuilt, just for kicks?

Do I lose all my stuff stored in an office when it gets blown up? Probably. Sort of defeats the point of storage then.

Waiting to see how this makes sense in the context of the new expansion, I assume there is a point.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#398 - 2013-10-03 21:30:45 UTC
This is one of the best changes ever in EvE Online, now please do the some thing with stations and stargates.

Thank you.

The Tears Must Flow
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#399 - 2013-10-03 21:37:10 UTC
Masazak wrote:
This is the death blow to HS PI. Not impressed.

Also, What is to stop ALL the offices from being blown up on day one and NOT rebuilt, just for kicks?

Do I lose all my stuff stored in an office when it gets blown up? Probably. Sort of defeats the point of storage then.

Waiting to see how this makes sense in the context of the new expansion, I assume there is a point.

if all customs offices get blown up, just duckwalk in and drop your own, mystery solved

customs offices are not meant for long-term storage

i recommend exporting early and exporting often
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#400 - 2013-10-03 21:40:06 UTC
i mean when you walked up to the customs office was there a sign that said "Dead Coolant Storage"

no, there was not