Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Precisely.
Killboards mean nothing, as i know exactly how people carebear, while watching movies and stuff. So I'll take your word regarding that kill, but you don't have any base for an induction towards generality here.

I have a better idea. The cloaked character's name is grayed out in local when he is cloaked and little red letters saying "Cloaked" appear over his avatar. Since even Cov Ops cloaks have to spend a second decloaked after gate jump, this puts them on local and renders their name open to the cloaked label. Sounds good to me. PS: You should be glad that local does not disclose your ship or its fit or your previous system.

And since afk keeps coming up despite the fact that afk means nothing to either the threat level, please consider a 1 hour auto-logoff. No keys or mouse pressed for one hour (like probes mechanics having a 1 hour lifetime) and your ship is auto-logged off. Fear not because you can log back in again when you are ready to play.

Added, to be perfectly clear on this:

And to reiterate from above, the term afk is meaningless until there is a logoff or auto logoff.

We're not talking purely about miners though are we? We're talking about Miner AND PVE ships. Not to mention things like this:
http://killboard.black-legion.us/?a=kill_related&kll_id=5002
Happening when things go wrong (or right, if you are BL).

The point is though, I'm a hell of a lot more likely to lose a ship while doing anoms in null than I am doing level 4's in high, and It's far more lucrative to run L4s. Since we then have to pay for the space and the upgrades too, how is it fair to add MORE risk? Maybe if they double the bounties.

Oh an WH people don;t complain for a few reasons.
1. Miners don't mine much in WH (rubbish POS refine) and PVE ships are onmitanked for sleepers, and so are viable in PvP.
2. It's impossible for a ship to cyno his mates in.
3. WHs can have all entrances collapsed except their static (which respawns) if they have one. This essentially makes some systems completely sealed and some the equivalent of a dead end with only 1 entrance to watch. Give null sec the ability to shut our gates and stop covert cynos, and you'll see us complain less too.

EDIT: Oh and yes, setting up tactical bookmarks, in every grav you go into, while maintaining a safe distance from rocks as well as being close enough to mine them, yes - it's a pain in the ass. oing it in a regular belt, that always has the same layout and is in the same place, easy, since you only do it once. Gravs cycle every time they pop and every 3 days.

EDIT2: Kill link is broken because the forums change the &. copy paste it.

Instead of treating this like a negotiation in which neither of us have any power anyway, you could simply engage the merits of the ideas.

A 1 hour logoff seems reasonable. If you haven't sent any interaction of any kind to the client for an hour, it seems reasonable to auto-logoff until you are ready to play. If you want local to treat cloaked ships differently, and they will already appear in local through the natural gate cloak and decloak after entering, it seems reasonable to simply add "cloaked" to the name. Everyone saw the red come in anyway and it isn't like "local" will forget about it either.

No one here is advocating a tax on the time spent cloaked, so please, engage the issues with reasonable discussion of the ideas themselves and the mechanics and their effects. No one is justing perma banning you for promoting these cloaky buffs, so let's engage the issues instead of trying to make things personal.

I was looking at miners becuase they have dedicated ships for that. Granted you could mine in a BS, but most opt for mining barges, exhumers, or the venture. So I looked at exhumers. That is what the data have tended to show. Now, if we could query the zkillboard database we could get some really good numbers on this.

Ratting ships are harder to isolate as they are often the same ships people PvP in, with some exception (I doubt many PvE in a Dramiel). Now, I suppose one could query the zkillboard database, if we had access, and filter via certain fits, but that would be quite a bit of work.

And since we can't query the zkillboard dataset, it is all rather moot.

As for WHs, mining ship losses there are more likely than in null, at least based on what I've seen over the last few days. And yeah, I bet they do mine there, they seem to build capitals in WHs from what I've read. Don't really know that for certain though, never really wanted to live in WH space.

Actually, I want to auto-logoff all players who have not interacted with their client for an entire hour straight; not just cloaked ships. I classify this as a matter of efficiency and practical sense. If a player does nothing with their client, then they are not playing, simple as that. If they so much as single click on the client in space, the 1 hour timer resets, because even if they are just sitting in space observing local or whatever else is being displayed, a single click per hour shows that they are still playing. Even chatting with friends in client chat boxes would count as interaction; any click or key press would count.

In exchange for a sensible and reasonable auto-logoff feature, I offer complete elimination of the afk issue. I will never again hear anyone complain about someone being afk, because after 1 hour, if it was true, they would be logged off. Even afk pve would stop. Imagine never hearing the words afk used in a complaint ever again. And the online numbers would be more meaningful and accurate too.

And to keep the balance, the afk players who weren't even playing before then would have the option to LOG BACK IN! See the balance. It is beautiful. Or if they didn't want to be auto logged, they could simply click on their client once per hour and then return to their movie or whatever they were doing.

Added:

And Teckos, I was just modifying your special cloaky local treatment to something that actually made sense. It was you who was asking for a system where local was manipulated by the cloak is such a way as to attempt to hide the intel when the intel would actually have been noticed and reported by the vanishing mechanic of the player who entered system and cloaked. I modified it to accurately show what everyone would have already observed anyway. If the cloak disconnects a ship from local, it only makes sense that the cloaked player's local give no updates to the ship while cloaked and puts the words "disconnected" over every avatar so that the player knows that the ships listed on their local is only accurate as of the time that they cloaked and may have left since they cloaked. And if the disconnect applies to all ships cloaked it should also apply to gate cloaks so that a ship entering system cannot see who is in system until they lose their gate cloak. The disconnect should go both ways and apply at all times, and it should be noted for the ships who "disconnected" by cloaking. Extending the concept, it may apply to ships who leave system via wh by throwing the red words "disconnected" over the avatar of the ships which jump through the wh; and maybe also apply to ships that use their jump drive too, since the gates would have no record of any activations nor communication with the ship which had already jumped out of system until they land in the next system. Instead of the red words "cloaked" it could just be red words "disconnected" for all cases where a ship is not connected to the "local" system.

Efficiency, practical, sensible, reasonable... all words that sound pretty.

Here's what your change creates.

As a miner, I would never have any reason or excuse to undock with a hostile present. I would know they had to be active, assuming the activity detection means actually worked.

My risk, since a hostile can no longer fool me into operating in their presence, drops. Maybe not for me specifically, but for miners like myself, statistically speaking.
Ratters and mission runners too.

Seriously now, what will be the consequences?
With all the war decs some alliances have, operating in high sec is genuinely more dangerous than sov null for their pilots.
And that is before this change is considered.

If you drop the risk far enough, how long do you think the devs will take before artificially boosting it some other way, or simply dropping the rewards?

I am already hearing some describing how efficient operating out of high sec is, for ISK making, in this thread.

This will not be good for null. Low risk and high reward is simply not a sustainable game design, and that is what you are asking for.

In other words, the expected reward v. expected loss ratio rises. If it rises enough, then expect a nerf. We've seen it before. When things get out of alignment with what the Dev's see as reasonable, then they nerf it.

And why is it reasonable for every AFK player to be auto-logged off? This is simply an assertion with virtually no argument. They aren't interacting with anyone...so, lots of players play the game and interact with nobody. I've done it on occasion, logged in and done some stuff and logged off without chatting in corp chat, alliance chat, or anything like that.

Server load? That is a daft idea, people logged in and not interacting with the client and randomly distributed around various systems throughout the game are not going to impact the load that much.

I'd love to see the reason for this.

Oh, and it still gives away free intel. Now I am more certain that the guy I can't scan down and is in system is more likely to be at his PC than away from it. If I am more certain, it stands to reason I'm also less uncertain...no? Less uncertainty in this context also means less risk. And do I do anything for this? Nope. I do precisely nothing. It is yet another game mechanic handing out goodies for no effort at all.

Why is it the anti-AFK people always argue both for more effort and less? More where they don't like the lack of effort, and less where it benefits them....I'm sure it is just a coincidence.

The OP in this very thread suggests otherwise.

I just realized that those against local may not understand the basis for local. Let me enlighten you on Eve mechanics:

Local is a creation of the gate system. The stargates of Eve communicate with the ships in system and create a directory of ships to aid in ship communications. Those ships which leave known space into wormhole space lack the gate system and therefore are not linked to the gate system directories. Local is empty in wh space because there are no gates in those systems. When a ship broadcasts a message in local, all ships in the system detect the presence of that ship but again the lack of stargates prevents the ships in system from knowing when that ship leaves the system. The idea to remove local is the proposal to remove stargates. The suggestion to remove cloaked vessels is the idea to prevent stargates from detecting when a gate-cloaked vessel (that just jumped into system breaks its gate cloak prior to activating its cloaking module. Even cloaked vessels entering known space systems from wh space must break their wh cloak before engaging their cloaking modules. That moment while uncloaked in a known space system with the gate system in place allows the gate system to detect them and register them in the system directory.

I hope the explanation of the local connection to the gate system clarifies the reasons behind the local mechanics and resolves any further desires to change local. The gate system is a foundation of Eve itself and changing it rocks the core of Eve.