Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You forgot the fourth and pretty big group who care about PvE and/or PvE but have no clue at all how things really works.

These days I'm opening the F&ID forum and wonder why marauder haven't turned yet in something like a smartbomb hull that gets gas mining bonus in bastion...

(INB4 new rokh hull gas mining marauder proposal)

On the note, this is not a personal attack on anyone and also I'm quite found of your efforts in this post, keep on.

+1 because your post lacks the usual rage-whine, it least sounds more interesting than some of those other suggestions, and thinking about your suggestion is not a sure trip to lala-land.

I think the biggest issue, as some have point out, is the balancing between a PVE and PVP perspective. Traditionally speaking, the marauder has been a ship class strictly for PVE since its inception into the game. This has created an iconic "carebear" ship that was able to PvP in the past, but really suffered due to the initial limitations placed by the CCP devs.

Now we've reached an age in EvE where the ships are changing, some drastically and some just a pinch here and there. As we enter the marauder rebalance, I believe it's very important for both the players and for the developers to realize that the pre-existing iterations of marauders can already easily run lvl 4 missions. Rebalancing them specifically so that they're even better at PVE is foolish and lacks forward thinking. Any BS can run lvl 4 missions in highsec easily enough so there is no need to relegate a single class to just PVE. If these ships are balanced correctly, they will still excel at PVE just because they excel at PVP.

Now, as we focus on the ship balancing itself I would like to say this. As I've watched the ship balancing come and pass for the T1 hulls, I've really felt that the game has lost of its racial flare and has been more focused on homogenization through equal slot allowances, slot layouts, etc. These marauders represent the pinnacle of their respective races sub capital class ship, and as such should truly show racial differences. Giving every marauder the same web bonus across the four races is boring and takes away their differences and specialties. As for the bastion module, the idea is exciting but the presentation needs work. Due to this, these ships prove challenging to balance but here goes my two cents.

I would like to provide a concept instead of hard numbers, which hopefully will be discussed and built upon:
Bastion Module:
1) 60 second cycle timer
2) Anchor ship when activated.
3) Provides Ewar immunity while activated.
4) Provides mass increase so you can't be bumped. To counter the WH closing problem: you cannot jump while the module is activated....or dock or jump gates for that matter
5) Provides 100% bonus to armor repairer/shield repairer effectiveness and cap reduction and/or cycle time reduction to armor/shield repairers. (Caution for ASB fits....may be OP)
6) Is scripted to provide specific bonuses to short range or long range play styles. This module is only limited to 1 hull that cost over a billion, its okay to introduce a useful one considering the trade off of being stuck in place for a minute


Marauders:
Like I mentioned earlier, these should be the racial embodiment of their weapon system. They should illustrate the strength of pulse/beam lasers, blaster/railgun hybrids, cruise/torp missiles, auto/artillery projectiles through hull specific bonuses. Note, these bonuses should not provide a direct bonus to raw damage, but rather damage application bonuses that have synergy with the bastion module itself.

The marauders need survivability inside and outside of bastion mode. This means providing hull bonuses that boost actual armor or shield HP. This provides usefulness for use outside of bastion mode, i.e receiving RR, and provides bonuses to bastion mode, i.e. having enough buffer to get rep cycles off.

The marauders also need racial specific support bonuses like webs, but not a blanket bonus to each hull. These ships aren't similar by any means in the damage application or ranges of engagement, so their support bonus shouldn't be similar as well.
Paladin: bonus to TC (mid range weapon system)
Golem: bonus to TP (missile application)
Kronos: bonus to web strength (short range weapon system)
Vargur: bonus to TC ( mid range weapon system)

(I'm not exactly sure what kind if support form of Ewar to use without having overlap) Edited****

Keep the MJD role bonus. Coordinated with a scripted bastion module, these ships can benefit from pulling range or closing distances to accommodate different play styles and fleet doctrines.

last time i saw pirate hulls deployed was via pandemic legion titan drops during their blockades of solar freighter lines, and they did this because battleships are too slow to respond to new intel to work in any other circumstance (see the prevalence of blops fleets for example, high reaction speed, high survivability for the cost a trait they don't share with marauders and pirate battle ships)

if you want to succeed in combat you must be fast - this requires a jump bridge or a rapid mobility that battleships simply don't have. if i have to jump chains and chains of gates to catch a target they'll be gone long before I arrive, cruisers (t3's notably) can maintain better defenses, do 1/2 to 2/3rds as much damage and fly 2x as fast thus make a better choice for roaming gangs.

truthfully the last place i saw decent gang warfare on the battle ship tonnage was in faction war settings of 50 pilot PUG fleets - fighting limited to a very enclosed region of space.

I see the point, but dont 100% agree with this. LvL 4s arent required to have class diversity like PvP. I think of PvE almost like rat mining. IMO most dont care if all highsec missions are done with x class of ship, just as most dont care if all highsec mining is done by exhumers.

I think that for pve specifically, these ships need to provide a large enough advantage compared faction/pirate battleships, that makes the training/monetary investment worth it. Alternatively though, the process of picking the right hull for the mission brings a level of enjoyment to missions in my opinion xD.


agree completely


Not so sure on this statement, but I could be swayed. For a PvE example i think of differences between the mach and the vargur. The max dps number on the mach is currently higher than the vargur, but let's assume they are equal. The difference then between the two would be that the vargur gets EWAR immunity, tanking, and tracking bonuses while the mach gets better speed / agility.

The problem I see with this is that the speed / agility of the mach is more flexible than the stationary bonuses given to the vargur. You can increase applied dmg by using the mach's speed bonus to close distance and / or decrease angular. You can also reduce incoming dmg by doing the opposite. With marauders receiving mobility decreases and being locked into bastion mode for a period of time, what you see is what you get and what you get is pretty limited flexibility. i think marauders need at least marginally better sustained dps to make up for their lack of flexibility and increased training requirements.

The EWAR Immunity is the only thing that makes the bastion module attractive. I do not believe that taking that away would be a good move.

I've explained at length the crippling impact of the 2008 web changes on blaster battleships (and implications of losing the bonus completely) from the perspective of someone with a great deal of experience with them, i'm not going to repeat myself. I do have to ask what your experience with blaster battleships is though?

I'm amazed CCP have gone for the resist bonus - for high end stuff it so outweighs a self repair bonus (and loss of) it isnt even funny.

Will be epic, but why the bastion module not buff missile damage application? I get velocity maybe but it should have at least one of the other effects (for sig radius or velocity effect) or its pretty useless.

if they were to be stationary, they would be called castles or fortifications or something..

i want to address:
the name marauder in general...
resists
scanning
salvage
tractor beams
tank
alignment time
speed in general
new possible bonus to hp ammount
rep rate

they should be fast strikers, not bricks. they should have t2 resists, mjd bonus, faster scan res for locking, low sensor str (fits the role-they arent designed for continual combat, just quick skirmishes).

they should align quickly and mjd. stop and pounce or get at range and snipe. they dont have to have tons of hp, just good hp and resists.
as i put in my post, they could have a bonus like the damnation (5% to armor or shield per marauder lev showing their training to fight the ship). make it start lower than typical bs (because they are lighter and faster), but once the bonus is full (marauder 5), be above typical bs.

the bastion mode is kewl. it would fit in well with this idea since they are immobile once deployed. it would fit in well with the low sensor str too. once in bastion mode, they are unjammable, but out of bastion mode, they are easily taken out with even the simplist of jamming frigs.

they need their reps back since they will have low tanks.
give them an rr bonus. it fits too. when in bastion mode, they cant be repped, and when out, they are easily jammed (and it cant be OP if its easily jammed).
like 5% per lev to reps, rep range or something. maybe a 5% per lev reduction in cap use for rr modules.


its a pve ship:
it still needs a scan bonus for probing.
it also needs the tractor range enhanced a little more.
a salvage difficulty bonus would be a kewl niche for these over a noctis.
we arent putting salvage rigs on em so we have to deal with basic skills. marauders should get these skills increased. maybe 50% bonus. with a probe launcher, tractor and salvager, we can only fit 1. it takes alot of time to salvage with a non-bonused marauder. give us a reason to use it over a noctis.

pve would still have their pve ships, incursions would have a kewl ship, worm hole goers would be able to tend to each other and salvage without having to call in a noctis, and for those running lev 4's, you still have your anti-jam mode as well.

Its only a 1 minute timer. Hics tackling supers (and even dreads in seige tbh) already have to do the rep kiting (get primaried, turn off mod, tank for a minute, get repped back up, enemy changes primary, mod on again) and its a great mechanic that should be encouraged. It requires actual judgement to use. And people facing them will need to switch targets to try and catch someone with cycle just started, overload to break them before they come out etc just like with triage/seige). Of course at a certain fleet size it will become redundant but for small gang stuff it will work well.