Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I'm assuming that since you're taking an absolution, you're in a gang?

I never put the probes on a combat ship - too many eggs in one basket.

shall I point out Astarte's 1300 turret dps, with the ability to also use medium drones and two launchers, and with enough mids to actually dictate range?

It needs a lot of things. In theory, it'd be decent for bearing... but everyone uses Tengus for that now anyways.

The real problem is that the NH has an extremely strong competitor in the Claymore. It ends up being close to an apples-to-apples comparison:

Both are tech 2 BCs
Both are shield tanked. They even have similar resists; the NH gets a resist bonus, while the Claymore has absurdly good base resists.
(The NH has higher base shields though; it has more raw shield HP with an LSE than the Claymore gets with two LSEs.)
Both have five missile hardpoints and a bonus to a missile soft stat.
(NH has exp radius, while Clay has exp velocity; the former is technically better, but they're both pretty good.


The biggest differences end up being:

Claymore: 7/6/4 and 1400m/s, 5 med drones, decent missile bonuses. +200 grid advantage over the NH.
Nighthawk: 7/5/5 and 1000m/s, 5 light drones, sicknastyop missile bonuses. +30 cpu advantage over the Claymore.


Nighthawk has GREAT missile DPS, but it's slow as **** -- even with a nano fitted, an active-tank Hyperion will outrun it, as will a single-plate two-trimark Megathron. And five mids forces you to make a terrible choice in terms of tank versus tackle.

Claymore is absurdly faster -- 500m/s faster with a reasonable fit, 800m/s faster if you use one of the Claymore option highs for a Rapid Deployment link. While its tank is slightly thinner, it gets to either fit an extra tank mod, or fit a web. Its lower missile DPS gets offset by the fact that it can carry a full set of Valks, plus a spare set of Warriors as well.

You can make the argument that the NH makes a better buffer-tanked largefleet ship due to its higher buffer; however, in that case, 4-5 HMLs is really not doing that much for you. You're better off assuming that you're going to be primary. It's a Vulture with no cyno, no smarties, and half the tank. Not really selling itself to me. It comes down to this, once both ships have their own links:

HAM Claymore: 95k EHP, 1800m/s, 460dps @ 20km with CN Scourge + 128dps from Valks = 600dps. Can pack either a web or an extra invuln (+10k EHP)
HAM Nighthawk: 108k EHP, 1100m/s, 650dps @ 20km with CN Scourge + 80dps from Warriors = 730dps. Longpoint or TP only
HML Nighthawk: 108k EHP, 1100m/s, 475dps @ 63km with CN Scourge + 80dps from Warriors = 550dps. Longpoint or TP only.

As far as XLASB solo fits go, the Claymore wins hands down. The active tank bonus goes a lot farther, it's got the web, and the extra 200 grid allows it to pack a medium neut.

In summary:

The Nighthawk doesn't have a niche. The Vulture outperforms it for a large-fleet FC platform. The Tengu outperforms it for a large-fleet missile platform. The Claymore outperforms it for small-gang and solo PvP. The Tengu outperforms it for PvE.

the example fit I posted has a medium neut. you can also get dual neut on it...

Great Mate. But Abso is the least suited ship to fit neuts. Lasers drain so much power that fitting nets should be left for other ship that simply do it better. Like Astrate who uses much less cap. On the other hand HAMs are a perfect addition to absos role in the fleet: a slow moving, hard hitting, armoured brick. It can't tackle, it can't persue target, and it can't put fancy modules in the mids. But it can shoot and tank. With 1300 dps on Astrate adding two HAMs for Abso is hardly overpowered (and Astrate CAN fit two HAMs like it doesent have enough dps already...).

You are rising an important issue. From my pvp experience there are two general small/medium fleet situations:

1) U are wining a fight and the targets are dropping fast: Abso is way better because you can shoot all the time no matter the range and reloads. I often apply much more dps than my friends in Proteus/Astarte because of that.

2) The fight is even and you are struggling to kill anything and brake trough logis rr: Astare/ Proteus is much better because you need as much dps as you can. The range does not matter - all ships will want to go close to 0 so they can hit with their strongest ammo at its optimal. So raw dps and tracking is much more important.

Since I believe that the balance should be done according to the second situation (as it is real pvp and not turkey shooting of inferior enemy) the Gallente ships have huge advantage over Amarr. Even Lokis/Hurricanes are better in that situation because they can shoot in the resist hole.

Ps. I hope that CCP will do something with lasers altogether. The last AT showed that it is the mostly underutilized weapon system (like PL executioners fitted with autocannons...)

It also showed that Gallente ships are quite imbalanced and CCP is planning to buff them further (hello Astrate). I don't want EVE where everyone is flying gallente...

Hmm, lasers have some serious drawback IMHO.

1) General resists layout hits lasers hard as EM is arguably the weakest dmg type.

2) Lasers cap use lowers the usability of utility mods (like neuts) who use a lot of cap themselves.

3) Cap use forces you to equip cap boosters in mids (and you don't have a lot of mids) lowering your tackle and therefore being less useful to the fleet.

3) Cap use not only impacts weapons themselves it also screws the hulls as most of them have -10 cap use bonus. This makes laser using hulls a lot weaker that equivalent hybrid or projectile hulls.

4) Lasers are generally balanced around scorch ammo. How hard they suck without scorch can be seen on Revelation vs other turret dreads: no real range advantage, less tracking, less dps, huge cap use, and of course half less hull bonuses because of -10% to cap use.

5) Range is nice sometimes but it does not allow you to kite the enemy. It only balances out the fact that Amarr ships are slow moving bricks and are unable to dictate range.

6) When u equip dmg mods (BCS, Gyros) you gain dps. But when you equip Heatsinks you increase dps AND increase cap use.

7) Last 2 Alliance Tournaments showed that pilots don't consider lasers worth equipping (like PL autocannon fitted executioners). It also showed that Gallente ships are quite imbalanced and CCP is planning to buff them further (hello Astrate). I don't want EVE where everyone is flying gallente...

The problem with medium laser and AC platforms right now is with skirmish links a fed navy web, which isnt even that pricey, goes to >25km. That means a blaster ship typically has no problem getting into close range and can't really be kited unless the laser or AC platform has a range bonus.