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[Odyssey 1.1] Warfare Links, Mindlinks, Gang bonuses

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Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#481 - 2013-08-05 14:14:26 UTC
Ayana Mayuko wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Ayana Mayuko wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Making mining links usable in a FF is pure pandering nonsense.
That change should be all or nothing.

Yeah have a rorqual that has no way to defend itself forced out of shields for every 2 bit ganker to come along and shoot at.. Great idea.. As long as you have the money ($ that is not isk, eventually unless you are an isk trillionare $ will be the main currency in eve) to start buying plex to pay for your T1 cruiser losses.
Orcas and Rorquals need a massive boost to self defence capabilities before being forced out of shields.


Rorqual has a FAR better defence capability compared to a command ship, in active tank, EHP and DPS.

Just saying.



That's why they survive a couple seconds to a hot drop blops/bomber wing. Indeed they have too much useless HP.


If I found a boosting T3/command ship in a safespot I would (and do) drop it and kill it, just as I would kill a Rorqual/Orca. The reason command ships aren't hunted as much as Rorquals are (ISK value aisde, obviously that is a factor) because they fly with combat capable fleets. Rorquals do not. There isn't a reason why Rorquals shouldn't have PvP ships defending them just as command ships would have apart from maybe the fact that PvPers have no real incentive to protect these ships which really comes down to the alliance/corp rather than game mechanics.
There is a very good reason many mining gangs don't have pvp defence fleets with them, it has a great deal to do with game mechanics.. Rorquals can't carry anything other than indy ships, now you could take a carrier with you loaded up with pvp ships but there is still the problem of getting the pilots to them. Rorqual has limited space for jump clones. PVPers in a lot of cases care little for miners, which is often their loss, as they then have to pay more for ships on the market because their indy corp is no longer able to build them. but then the more rorquals and other indies that die the higher ship prices go for everybody so it really is a never ending circle.
For me, if they force capital industrials out of shields without a good buff I will sell mine and let it and my mining chars die.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#482 - 2013-08-05 14:33:48 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
...For me, if they force capital industrials out of shields without a good buff I will sell mine and let it and my mining chars die.

Fairly easy solution that doesn't break anything: Remove siege requirement for links and up the Orca agility.

Will make them far more viable in the belts where they will end up once the on-grid kicks in (ie. when hell opens ski resorts, because :CCP:), Gives you the choice of having bigger links on a proper fat-ass or weaker links on something that can more easily escape.

-Or-

You could ask for the bonus to apply to all links. Leeroy combat Rorqs .. warp in with fleet, deploy!
Mara Maken
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#483 - 2013-08-05 18:55:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Maken
Edit
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#484 - 2013-08-05 20:25:38 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:

This is a MMORPG, if your able to organize 256 People it should have an advantage for this bunch of Players!

I highly disagree with your opinion, think how long sklling is needed to get, 1 Fleet Commander at V, 5 Wing Commander at V and 25 Squadleaders to V and have Boosters with the skills for Warefare Links... its a !!Year!!


I've got 4 characters with really solid leadership skills and I'm totally ok with CCP deleting all the leadership skills and not even reimbursing me. At the absolute minimum, gang links are far too powerful and even the nerf that is being discussed isn't nearly powerful enough.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Maraner
The Executioners
#485 - 2013-08-05 21:37:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Maraner
I feel that the nerf to the armor and shield links are too harsh.

I'm not completely clear why the nerf is so much harder to these links than other, will read back as far as able. But I would suggest that this be brought back a degree.

A 10% reduction to what these links provided (I hope that is broadly correct) is a big step down. I'd like to see around half of that and a rebalance later as required. Can someone point me at a clear rationale from the Devs as to why? Thanks!


Oh and death to of grid boosting. I have an alt, (we all do) and we often use OGB's. Still OP and silly, it's in the game so dumb not to use it, but I will still cheer when it's gone.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#486 - 2013-08-05 22:10:44 UTC
Maraner wrote:
I feel that the nerf to the armor and shield links are too harsh.

I'm not completely clear why the nerf is so much harder to these links than other, will read back as far as able. But I would suggest that this be brought back a degree.

A 10% reduction to what these links provided (I hope that is broadly correct) is a big step down. I'd like to see around half of that and a rebalance later as required. Can someone point me at a clear rationale from the Devs as to why? Thanks!


Oh and death to of grid boosting. I have an alt, (we all do) and we often use OGB's. Still OP and silly, it's in the game so dumb not to use it, but I will still cheer when it's gone.


Too harsh... you mean not harsh enough!!!

Shield Harmonizing: 24% Resists = 1 / .76 = 31.5% Effective Increase to Shield Boosts.
Active Shielding: 24% Rate of Boosts = 1 / .76 = 31.5% Effective Increase to Shield Boosting.

Cumulative Effect of the three Siege Links = 1.315*1.315 = 1.73 = 73% Effective Increase in Reps.

The cumulative benefit of defensive (Siege and Armor) has NO BUSINESS being more effective than pirate implants and drugs.

Full Crystal Set: +54% Shield Boosts.
Standard / Improved / Strong Blue Pill: + 20% / 25% / 30% Shield Boosts.


Reduce Defensive links to 12.5% maximum bonus. This will put their cumulative rep bonus at 30%, which is pretty much where it should be, at least until Boosters are forced On Grid.

Alternatively, change the boosts to depend on fleet size! That way boosts are still very potent for large fleets, but not so game breakingly imbalanced for small gang PvP! Example on how to do that!
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#487 - 2013-08-05 22:13:59 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:

This is a MMORPG, if your able to organize 256 People it should have an advantage for this bunch of Players!

I highly disagree with your opinion, think how long sklling is needed to get, 1 Fleet Commander at V, 5 Wing Commander at V and 25 Squadleaders to V and have Boosters with the skills for Warefare Links... its a !!Year!!


I've got 4 characters with really solid leadership skills and I'm totally ok with CCP deleting all the leadership skills and not even reimbursing me. At the absolute minimum, gang links are far too powerful and even the nerf that is being discussed isn't nearly powerful enough.

-Liang



Dear Liang,

i respect you, but no killing the fleetboost is like ditching the fleet as whole. Target calling isnt worth a own ship.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#488 - 2013-08-05 23:52:10 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:

Dear Liang,

i respect you, but no killing the fleetboost is like ditching the fleet as whole. Target calling isnt worth a own ship.


The problem with links is that they quickly become mandatory. This is pretty much an expected consequence of having a global 50% boost in a game where people train 2 months for a 2% benefit. A mindlinked fleet booster shouldn't provide more than a 5% bonus in absolute terms. IMO.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Hokoe
Zero Dark Thirty
#489 - 2013-08-06 00:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Hokoe
How do you get concord LP? There are no Concord agent. what the ! Sorry but whats up?
gang bonuses can be use on both side of the battle so y is it a problem. Is it because most ganker are
not in a fleets. All I see is this game is going to buy plex buy plex. lol
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#490 - 2013-08-06 00:54:01 UTC
Skirmish Warfare: Interdiction Maneuvers needs to be brought down even more. Dropping a T2 disruptor from 36km to 33km is not exactly a game changer. Nerf that **** into the ground.
Hokoe
Zero Dark Thirty
#491 - 2013-08-06 01:05:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Hokoe
All you have to do is buy lots of plex an you will have all the isk you want ! lol
The more they give. The more they take away.
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#492 - 2013-08-06 01:09:37 UTC
Hokoe wrote:
How do you get concord LP? There are no Concord agent. what the ! Sorry but whats up?
gang bonuses can be use on both side of the battle so y is it a problem. Is it because most ganker are
not in a fleets. All I see is this game is going to buy plex buy plex. lol



Incursions give concord LP.
Monsieur Leon
Doomheim
#493 - 2013-08-06 02:44:39 UTC
Lexar Mundi wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Lexar Mundi wrote:
Mining links should not be given special treatment...

Give them an ORE battlecruiser size ship to run links on or something but to let them run links inside shield is pretty lame.


We do intend to move mining links out of forcefields someday, but we'll want to rebalance the Orca and Rorqual first to make putting them on grid more viable first.


That is understandable. ty for the fast response.



Idiots, can only think it would be a great idea to require an industrial ship, a lethargic, very slow to warp ship, with only 5 drones for defensive / offensive capability to be boosting outside the POS.

Its not like the "children of the corn" posting in glee on this forum are flying around null in a 2.3 billion isk frigate.

The last year and this year there seems to be a theme of rebalancing. Well before rolling out that gem of a change lets "balance" things for the miners and indy corps as well.

Rorqual / Orca
ORE ship special boost = +4 warp strength / +125% agility / -125% to sig radius

ORE ships +15% to damage and area of effect for smartbombs per level

+50% bonus to effectiveness of ECM modules.

If your going to force them to be vulnerable, you should at least make them harder to catch.
Monsieur Leon
Doomheim
#494 - 2013-08-06 02:51:01 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:

This is a MMORPG, if your able to organize 256 People it should have an advantage for this bunch of Players!

I highly disagree with your opinion, think how long sklling is needed to get, 1 Fleet Commander at V, 5 Wing Commander at V and 25 Squadleaders to V and have Boosters with the skills for Warefare Links... its a !!Year!!


I've got 4 characters with really solid leadership skills and I'm totally ok with CCP deleting all the leadership skills and not even reimbursing me. At the absolute minimum, gang links are far too powerful and even the nerf that is being discussed isn't nearly powerful enough.

-Liang



I think your full of ****. Put your api info in your next post so we can verify your not lying through your teeth. No one likes getting their skills nerfed. Especially to a group of skills that have only one specific use.

Whats the name of your CCP alt?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#495 - 2013-08-06 03:04:01 UTC
Monsieur Leon wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:

This is a MMORPG, if your able to organize 256 People it should have an advantage for this bunch of Players!

I highly disagree with your opinion, think how long sklling is needed to get, 1 Fleet Commander at V, 5 Wing Commander at V and 25 Squadleaders to V and have Boosters with the skills for Warefare Links... its a !!Year!!


I've got 4 characters with really solid leadership skills and I'm totally ok with CCP deleting all the leadership skills and not even reimbursing me. At the absolute minimum, gang links are far too powerful and even the nerf that is being discussed isn't nearly powerful enough.

-Liang



I think your full of ****. Put your api info in your next post so we can verify your not lying through your teeth. No one likes getting their skills nerfed. Especially to a group of skills that have only one specific use.

Whats the name of your CCP alt?

You should really know who you are talking to before you try to call someone out.
Links are powerful, they should be on-grid only anything of any strength whilst off grid is OP.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#496 - 2013-08-06 03:10:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Viribus
Lephia DeGrande wrote:

This is a MMORPG, if your able to organize 256 People it should have an advantage for this bunch of Players!


What, having a 256-man fleet isn't enough of an advantage? lmao

EDIT: Also yes I have an alt with near-perfect leadership skills and I'd be happy if he lost every skill point invested in them if it meant an EVE without fleet bonuses

watch me be a scurb and get owned
Michael JD
Bucket Brigade Coalition
#497 - 2013-08-06 04:14:57 UTC
Thanks for breaking something that doesn't need to be changed. If you want links train a toon like everyone else who has them. Stop complaining. CCP please offer the toons that trained leadership skills a refund of the skill points that they have now wasted.
J A Aloysiusz
Risk Breakers
SONS of BANE
#498 - 2013-08-06 05:42:35 UTC  |  Edited by: J A Aloysiusz
Thank you for throwing my legion booster out the window. Because I have not trained the necessary skills for command ships, and T3 boosters will now be laughable, I expect to have my SP returned to me in odyssey 1.1 so I can train something useful. And please, don't tell me that I'm gaining something like "versatility"... If I wanted a half-[donkey]ed information booster, I'd put an alt in a linky myrmidon and call it a day.

My personal issues aside, I'll point out that the interdiction maneuvers link is receiving a particularly nasty nerf. This seems to me to be a silly idea, seeing as you're simultaneously trying to promote the use of ranged weapons systems. Ranged weapons are just about useless in pvp if your arazu+rapier can no longer tackle to the range necessary to keep them planted. Then again, who was going to use the medium new rails anyway?

All that being said, I approve of the change to the info warfare skill and mindlink.

EDIT: at the bare minimum, are you at least increasing the base number of links on T3s? A "versatile" booster ship with fewer boost slots than a specialized one would be idiocy.
Monsieur Leon
Doomheim
#499 - 2013-08-06 05:42:56 UTC
Michael JD wrote:
Thanks for breaking something that doesn't need to be changed. If you want links train a toon like everyone else who has them. Stop complaining. CCP please offer the toons that trained leadership skills a refund of the skill points that they have now wasted.



I have to agree with Michael. This isn't a ship that is being rebalanced. Your impuning a group of people that have worked and sacrificed and put training time (about 3-6 months) to make their fleets worthwhile. You should give us the option on giving back points, should they go that route.

We as players train skills in order to be proficient in what we do and give ourselves, our corps a competitive advantage. When we started playing we were coached by more seasoned players and from time to time the game would change... a little. We put our time and effort into these areas in good faith. We never expected to be blindsided and have all the time and effort devalued so much. The least you could do is give us the option of re-focus our earned points in a different area to keep us playing.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#500 - 2013-08-06 07:10:21 UTC
14 month old dev blog

How the hell did anyone get blindsided by this?