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Make all carriers and dreads prone to normal warp disruptors in lowsec.

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Kat Ayclism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2013-07-19 04:48:50 UTC
Heavy Met4l Queen wrote:
And on a day of POS bashing and killmails, much butthurt was to be found. And the tears were plentiful, and the harvest of them great; and there was much rejoicing...

1 Free moon = 1 Bil per month
Tear-filled pm while doing green boxes = 1 boring hour
Resulting tear thread and frantic denial of being the same person despite crying about all the same things = priceless
Heavy Met4l Queen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#142 - 2013-07-19 04:56:40 UTC
Kat Ayclism wrote:
Heavy Met4l Queen wrote:
And on a day of POS bashing and killmails, much butthurt was to be found. And the tears were plentiful, and the harvest of them great; and there was much rejoicing...

1 Free moon = 1 Bil per month
Tear-filled pm while doing green boxes = 1 boring hour
Resulting tear thread and frantic denial of being the same person despite crying about all the same things = priceless


Makes it all worth the effort doesn't it?

In the game of conquest, who cares about the pawns if the king yet reigns?
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#143 - 2013-07-19 05:05:55 UTC
Kat Ayclism wrote:
1 Free moon = 1 Bil per month
Tear-filled pm while doing green boxes = 1 boring hour
Resulting tear thread and frantic denial of being the same person despite crying about all the same things = priceless


:a2m:?
Ktorn Sinus
CANCER.
#144 - 2013-07-19 05:28:07 UTC
[ 2013.07.17 12:35:23 ] Lady Flute > I *like* mining
[ 2013.07.17 12:35:33 ] Lady Flute > we used to love mining to keep the indy level over 3
[ 2013.07.17 12:35:41 ] Lady Flute > that is the gameplay you guys killed
[ 2013.07.17 12:35:46 ] Lady Flute > we mined enough for a carrier a month
[ 2013.07.17 12:35:53 ] Lady Flute > even with pvp attacks
[ 2013.07.17 12:36:07 ] Lady Flute > but PL betrayed us, we had to quit nullsec
[ 2013.07.17 12:36:29 ] Lady Flute > so now ... most of us play WoW, battlefield 3, or world of tanks
[ 2013.07.17 12:36:33 ] Lady Flute > I **** you not.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#145 - 2013-07-19 06:02:44 UTC
Grace Ishukone wrote:

3. Carriers and Dreads in LOWSEC can be warp jammed by anything.


Halp, I'm tackled by a planet!

You know that the lowliest, meta-1 warp disruptor will prevent capships from warping, right? Even in LOWSEC!
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#146 - 2013-07-19 06:09:49 UTC
Also, thread gets better and better with each page. Thanks, PL <3
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#147 - 2013-07-19 06:32:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
PL kills our POS all the time...I think it's why we have one, so PL doesn't get too bored when they come round.

Sure there's nothing we can really do about it. We're a small time low sec operation and have no interest in joining the blob fest, the price we pay for this is not having nice towers.

As for not being able to do anything while there are supers around PL used to warp Nyxes to my frigate fights at top belt. By the time that fat ass aligns and warps in the fight is over, I've looted the wreck and I'm there to fire one volley at it on the off chance it dies later without a session change. Even if it does kill my Incursus, how many tears do you think I'm going to shed over it? Also there's several jump gates in Amamake. They're a big hurdle for a Nyx. But unless they are willing to park supers at every celestial in system they are very easy to avoid and if they were to do it just leave system. The trail of cyno alts required to follow you system to system could be considered a victory in itself if they do actually follow you around all night.

I started into PvP with 4 million SP and that was back when you had to spend the first 30 days minimum on learning skills, so it's not like PvP is impossible with low SP, but are you going to take out PL with 4 or 5 guys with 4 million SP, NO! Are you going to beat down PL with 4 or 5 guys with 90 million SP each, again, the answer is NO!

I think you still need to learn that (nearly) anything is permitted here and the sooner you understand the full scope of what that implies the better, that lack of understanding will always hold you back until you fully understand.

EDIT: If I was not clear I support nothing here. A system that is not broken requires no fix.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#148 - 2013-07-19 07:25:09 UTC
I've read more of this topic now and you mention several times that EVE is a failure as a commercial product.

With one notable and tragic exception the customer base has continuously expanded since I started playing in 2007. I base this on the average number of logins i used to see in 2007 compared with now. The retention of those who last more than a few months is also high, as I looked up a loss mail from 2008 that had 37 people on the mail and of that 30 had updated portraits which means they've played in at least the last two years (can't remember exactly when the avatars changed).

The fact that EVE is still going after 10 years in an era where telling an investor that you want to make an MMO will immediately require you to talk them down off their window ledge speaks volumes. Most MMOs are dead or dying or switching to free-to-play (or two of three, you can't be simultaneously dead and dying) inside of a year. A lot of this probably has to do with the fact that EVE occupies a niche in the gaming community that as far as I am aware is not filled by anyone else but that is irrelevant. Who else has a brutal, cut-throat sandbox with a storyline almost completely dictated by the players all taking place in space where you can practically watch another version of human history unfold at high speed. No one as far as I know.

Yes, EVE loses a lot of subscriptions but this is likely due to design as with the way the game is made I don't think it could support having 11 million subscriptions without fracturing the servers and a big part of the goal here was to have everyone on a single server. Commercial success is all a matter of meeting your targets and as CCP soldiers on with an ever expanding subscriber base and meeting their game design targets it can not be labelled a failure. The reality is that EVE is harsh, most are weeded out quickly and many do not make the cut. If that is you be glad it didn't take you too too long to find that out.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#149 - 2013-07-19 07:31:52 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
I've read more of this topic now and you mention several times that EVE is a failure as a commercial product.

With one notable and tragic exception the customer base has continuously expanded since I started playing in 2007. I base this on the average number of logins i used to see in 2007 compared with now. The retention of those who last more than a few months is also high, as I looked up a loss mail from 2008 that had 37 people on the mail and of that 30 had updated portraits which means they've played in at least the last two years (can't remember exactly when the avatars changed).

The fact that EVE is still going after 10 years in an era where telling an investor that you want to make an MMO will immediately require you to talk them down off their window ledge speaks volumes. Most MMOs are dead or dying or switching to free-to-play (or two of three, you can't be simultaneously dead and dying) inside of a year. A lot of this probably has to do with the fact that EVE occupies a niche in the gaming community that as far as I am aware is not filled by anyone else but that is irrelevant. Who else has a brutal, cut-throat sandbox with a storyline almost completely dictated by the players all taking place in space where you can practically watch another version of human history unfold at high speed. No one as far as I know.

Yes, EVE loses a lot of subscriptions but this is likely due to design as with the way the game is made I don't think it could support having 11 million subscriptions without fracturing the servers and a big part of the goal here was to have everyone on a single server. Commercial success is all a matter of meeting your targets and as CCP soldiers on with an ever expanding subscriber base and meeting their game design targets it can not be labelled a failure. The reality is that EVE is harsh, most are weeded out quickly and many do not make the cut. If that is you be glad it didn't take you too too long to find that out.



WoW is the only Subscription MMO on the market that I know of that has more Subscriptions than EVE does at the moment. SWOTOR (even being F2P), dropped below 500k making the range from 500k to 9 million (WoW) wide open.

Just for reference.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ktorn Sinus
CANCER.
#150 - 2013-07-19 10:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ktorn Sinus
Grace Ishukone wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Yes, and is a hardcore PvP game.

GTFO. Roll



Darkfall : Unholy Wars is more of a hardcore PvP game than EVE Online is now. So don't use words like "hardcore pvp" when EVE has non-PVP zones now, you can't evade or kill concord any more, and most of the players in most of the game space are NOT pvping.

EVE Online is a space mining, industry and trading game that *occasionally* has pvp. Don't pretend otherwise, because it is simply not true. If you want a real pvp game, go get one. I say this in the full knowledge that I love mining and making things :)


why are you talking about pvp when you never pvped?

wait, you actually did, 3 times, right?

[ 2013.07.17 12:18:19 ] Lady Flute > I haven't pvped mroe than 3 times in 7 years

also, i think i'm gonna waste my time and follow you and your m8s wherever you go and whatever you do to make your lifes miserable until you quit forever.

THAT'S MY NEW MISSION.

THAT'S HOW I ENJOY EVE ONLINE.

you gonna cry about it more now noob?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#151 - 2013-07-19 11:30:14 UTC
Ktorn Sinus wrote:
Grace Ishukone wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Yes, and is a hardcore PvP game.

GTFO. Roll



Darkfall : Unholy Wars is more of a hardcore PvP game than EVE Online is now. So don't use words like "hardcore pvp" when EVE has non-PVP zones now, you can't evade or kill concord any more, and most of the players in most of the game space are NOT pvping.

EVE Online is a space mining, industry and trading game that *occasionally* has pvp. Don't pretend otherwise, because it is simply not true. If you want a real pvp game, go get one. I say this in the full knowledge that I love mining and making things :)


why are you talking about pvp when you never pvped?

wait, you actually did, 3 times, right?

[ 2013.07.17 12:18:19 ] Lady Flute > I haven't pvped mroe than 3 times in 7 years

also, i think i'm gonna waste my time and follow you and your m8s wherever you go and whatever you do to make your lifes miserable until you quit forever.

THAT'S MY NEW MISSION.

THAT'S HOW I ENJOY EVE ONLINE.

you gonna cry about it more now noob?


Interesting, you are talking about stalking this player until he leaves the game, suggest you read the EULA, so I will quote it to keep it in thread.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Rune Scorpio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2013-07-19 12:33:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rune Scorpio
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Grace Ishukone wrote:
Title says it all.

Sick of Pandemic Leigon and other nullsec mega-rich alliances cynoing into lowsec, killing every tower on every moon vaguely worth anything, and having 0 effective risk at all. Even with 16 hardneres is takes less than 10 minutes for a PL fleet to kill a large tower from reinforced, meaning that even if someone else wants to jump in to pvp them, the cap fleet has arrived, killed the tower, and left before anyone can actually pvp them.

This is meant to be a game. There is no fun in "no way to kill them" fights.

So one or more of the changes below are needed - which are useful / not?

1. Only 6 capitals, maximum, in space in any lowsec system.
2. Lowsec POS get 500% bonus defence to attacks by capitals.
3. Carriers and Dreads in LOWSEC can be warp jammed by anything.
4. POS guns get upgraded radically so they can actually HURT capitals.
5. Only two ships able to jump to one cyno each minute.
6. Ships jumping into lowsec cannot jump out until their combat timers have ended.


The idea of the above is to actually have well, pvp. Currently the game is whoever has the most isk (i.e. credit card ability) just wins. That's rubbish. Need actual pvp over static objects, not capital blat fleets that have no effective risk.

PvP is meant to be risk vs reward, fun from succeeding and achieving objectives and surviving the risks. It's not happening - much of pvp in EVE is horribly boring, and rightly slammed by players who like more than spreadsheets for their gameplay.





Actually the real issue is POS guns doing lol dmg. A single non siege Dread can easily tank a large pos full of guns/missile batteries with no much trouble, drop a couple dreads and carriers and it's cake party.

The real solution is to make those batteries hit really really hard as they should but give them capital guns tracking and explosion radius, eventually add a siege upgrade so small/medium guns have a huge dps increase but can't hit anything smaller than a 500m sign radius.

Killing the pos shouldn't be the hard work to do, right now it's like every single structure in this game, a matter of numbers and afk shooting until you're told to stop while watching some film.
The real hard work to do should be killing the POS guns and by hard I mean that if you want to take a POS down you should be really motivated and have a strategies to kill pos guns, bring more capitals or even supers to the field, put them at risk and bring more capital/super fights, force them to fight and put those assets at risk.

Right now all you need to be afk safe shooting a pos is as easy as warp your BS fleet at 150 from POS and snipe all modules with 0 risk or Drop a couple Dreads on top of the POS which is stupid, boring and brings nothing constructive or amazing as game play.


Not really crappy damage tbh. We had a large minmatar covered in guns and 6 pos gunners nearly tear apart a broken toys dread in under a minute. He wasnt seiged so he warped before I could unlock the guns in that crappy ui and burn out to him. And he had 2 archons repping him.
Mind you this was broken toys. They were bads. Never seen a pos take on a proper cap fleet.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#153 - 2013-07-19 14:16:28 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Interesting, you are talking about stalking this player until he leaves the game, suggest you read the EULA, so I will quote it to keep it in thread.


I suggest you read the EULA, and get it through your thick head that following/stalking people in EVE is just one of the many natures of this here beast; There is also nothing wrong with getting people to quit as 'harassment' is loosely defined in a game where it's perfectly legit to violence and/or steal all the things.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#154 - 2013-07-19 15:00:31 UTC
Rune Scorpio wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Grace Ishukone wrote:
Title says it all.

Sick of Pandemic Leigon and other nullsec mega-rich alliances cynoing into lowsec, killing every tower on every moon vaguely worth anything, and having 0 effective risk at all. Even with 16 hardneres is takes less than 10 minutes for a PL fleet to kill a large tower from reinforced, meaning that even if someone else wants to jump in to pvp them, the cap fleet has arrived, killed the tower, and left before anyone can actually pvp them.

This is meant to be a game. There is no fun in "no way to kill them" fights.

So one or more of the changes below are needed - which are useful / not?

1. Only 6 capitals, maximum, in space in any lowsec system.
2. Lowsec POS get 500% bonus defence to attacks by capitals.
3. Carriers and Dreads in LOWSEC can be warp jammed by anything.
4. POS guns get upgraded radically so they can actually HURT capitals.
5. Only two ships able to jump to one cyno each minute.
6. Ships jumping into lowsec cannot jump out until their combat timers have ended.


The idea of the above is to actually have well, pvp. Currently the game is whoever has the most isk (i.e. credit card ability) just wins. That's rubbish. Need actual pvp over static objects, not capital blat fleets that have no effective risk.

PvP is meant to be risk vs reward, fun from succeeding and achieving objectives and surviving the risks. It's not happening - much of pvp in EVE is horribly boring, and rightly slammed by players who like more than spreadsheets for their gameplay.





Actually the real issue is POS guns doing lol dmg. A single non siege Dread can easily tank a large pos full of guns/missile batteries with no much trouble, drop a couple dreads and carriers and it's cake party.

The real solution is to make those batteries hit really really hard as they should but give them capital guns tracking and explosion radius, eventually add a siege upgrade so small/medium guns have a huge dps increase but can't hit anything smaller than a 500m sign radius.

Killing the pos shouldn't be the hard work to do, right now it's like every single structure in this game, a matter of numbers and afk shooting until you're told to stop while watching some film.
The real hard work to do should be killing the POS guns and by hard I mean that if you want to take a POS down you should be really motivated and have a strategies to kill pos guns, bring more capitals or even supers to the field, put them at risk and bring more capital/super fights, force them to fight and put those assets at risk.

Right now all you need to be afk safe shooting a pos is as easy as warp your BS fleet at 150 from POS and snipe all modules with 0 risk or Drop a couple Dreads on top of the POS which is stupid, boring and brings nothing constructive or amazing as game play.


Not really crappy damage tbh. We had a large minmatar covered in guns and 6 pos gunners nearly tear apart a broken toys dread in under a minute. He wasnt seiged so he warped before I could unlock the guns in that crappy ui and burn out to him. And he had 2 archons repping him.
Mind you this was broken toys. They were bads. Never seen a pos take on a proper cap fleet.

well, not really an example, knowing the BT, this dread was probably but naked or shield tanked Lol
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#155 - 2013-07-19 15:10:39 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Ktorn Sinus wrote:
Grace Ishukone wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Yes, and is a hardcore PvP game.

GTFO. Roll



Darkfall : Unholy Wars is more of a hardcore PvP game than EVE Online is now. So don't use words like "hardcore pvp" when EVE has non-PVP zones now, you can't evade or kill concord any more, and most of the players in most of the game space are NOT pvping.

EVE Online is a space mining, industry and trading game that *occasionally* has pvp. Don't pretend otherwise, because it is simply not true. If you want a real pvp game, go get one. I say this in the full knowledge that I love mining and making things :)


why are you talking about pvp when you never pvped?

wait, you actually did, 3 times, right?

[ 2013.07.17 12:18:19 ] Lady Flute > I haven't pvped mroe than 3 times in 7 years

also, i think i'm gonna waste my time and follow you and your m8s wherever you go and whatever you do to make your lifes miserable until you quit forever.

THAT'S MY NEW MISSION.

THAT'S HOW I ENJOY EVE ONLINE.

you gonna cry about it more now noob?


Interesting, you are talking about stalking this player until he leaves the game, suggest you read the EULA, so I will quote it to keep it in thread.

this is what happen in every war, whether a wardec is on or not, if i have targets, whether invading my home or that i want to destroy, damn yes i'll make their life miserable, stalking them, hunting them, attempt to kill them on sight on any possible occasion. and this can go for month, until they leave the area or stop harrassing our pve boys / miners.

and the goal is to weaken the ennemy, kill his moral, prevent him to enjoy the game etc.....
the more player got annoyed, the less they connect, and more their CEO start considering messing with us.

and this is valid tactic, there is many way to win a war, and when you are the underdog, a frontal fight is not in your favor, so other means are required, and there is nothing wrong with this at all, the game even push toward this!
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#156 - 2013-07-19 15:43:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
seth Hendar wrote:
and the goal is to weaken the ennemy, kill his moral, prevent him to enjoy the game etc.....
the more player got annoyed, the less they connect, and more their CEO start considering messing with us.

and this is valid tactic, there is many way to win a war, and when you are the underdog, a frontal fight is not in your favor, so other means are required, and there is nothing wrong with this at all, the game even push toward this!



Having a couple of hics in system with cynos fitted and contacts with their worst enemy also helps a bit and worth of every single ship you'll loose to make them loose billions and billions of assets.

Afterwards those tend to move only when it's really worth of and stop bullying the weak just because they can. Lol

You know, like some Titans or Snowflake supers stupidly dyeing for being idiots, last times this happened those might have learned the lesson the very very hard isk/assets way and I tend to believe they're not chestbeating about it.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#157 - 2013-07-19 15:58:30 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Ktorn Sinus wrote:
Grace Ishukone wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Yes, and is a hardcore PvP game.

GTFO. Roll



Darkfall : Unholy Wars is more of a hardcore PvP game than EVE Online is now. So don't use words like "hardcore pvp" when EVE has non-PVP zones now, you can't evade or kill concord any more, and most of the players in most of the game space are NOT pvping.

EVE Online is a space mining, industry and trading game that *occasionally* has pvp. Don't pretend otherwise, because it is simply not true. If you want a real pvp game, go get one. I say this in the full knowledge that I love mining and making things :)


why are you talking about pvp when you never pvped?

wait, you actually did, 3 times, right?

[ 2013.07.17 12:18:19 ] Lady Flute > I haven't pvped mroe than 3 times in 7 years

also, i think i'm gonna waste my time and follow you and your m8s wherever you go and whatever you do to make your lifes miserable until you quit forever.

THAT'S MY NEW MISSION.

THAT'S HOW I ENJOY EVE ONLINE.

you gonna cry about it more now noob?


Interesting, you are talking about stalking this player until he leaves the game, suggest you read the EULA, so I will quote it to keep it in thread.

this is what happen in every war, whether a wardec is on or not, if i have targets, whether invading my home or that i want to destroy, damn yes i'll make their life miserable, stalking them, hunting them, attempt to kill them on sight on any possible occasion. and this can go for month, until they leave the area or stop harrassing our pve boys / miners.

and the goal is to weaken the ennemy, kill his moral, prevent him to enjoy the game etc.....
the more player got annoyed, the less they connect, and more their CEO start considering messing with us.

and this is valid tactic, there is many way to win a war, and when you are the underdog, a frontal fight is not in your favor, so other means are required, and there is nothing wrong with this at all, the game even push toward this!


Your definition I am OK with:

"until they leave the area or stop harrassing our pve boys / miners"

This is an issue:

"also, i think i'm gonna waste my time and follow you and your m8s wherever you go and whatever you do to make your lifes miserable until you quit forever."

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#158 - 2013-07-19 15:59:59 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Interesting, you are talking about stalking this player until he leaves the game, suggest you read the EULA, so I will quote it to keep it in thread.


I suggest you read the EULA, and get it through your thick head that following/stalking people in EVE is just one of the many natures of this here beast; There is also nothing wrong with getting people to quit as 'harassment' is loosely defined in a game where it's perfectly legit to violence and/or steal all the things.



I ttought you were an idiot in the Marmite thread, but you just excelled yourself in this one, how the hell did you get in PL, oh I know you have a Super...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
ConranAntoni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#159 - 2013-07-19 16:09:07 UTC
This threads hilarious, it's like a beam of concerntrated retardation.

Empyrean Warriors - Recruiting now.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#160 - 2013-07-19 16:10:45 UTC
ConranAntoni wrote:
This threads hilarious, it's like a beam of concerntrated retardation.



Lol

Welcome fella.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne