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Make all carriers and dreads prone to normal warp disruptors in lowsec.

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Grace Ishukone
Ishukone Advanced Research
#1 - 2013-07-17 11:39:46 UTC
Title says it all.

Sick of Pandemic Leigon and other nullsec mega-rich alliances cynoing into lowsec, killing every tower on every moon vaguely worth anything, and having 0 effective risk at all. Even with 16 hardneres is takes less than 10 minutes for a PL fleet to kill a large tower from reinforced, meaning that even if someone else wants to jump in to pvp them, the cap fleet has arrived, killed the tower, and left before anyone can actually pvp them.

This is meant to be a game. There is no fun in "no way to kill them" fights.

So one or more of the changes below are needed - which are useful / not?

1. Only 6 capitals, maximum, in space in any lowsec system.
2. Lowsec POS get 500% bonus defence to attacks by capitals.
3. Carriers and Dreads in LOWSEC can be warp jammed by anything.
4. POS guns get upgraded radically so they can actually HURT capitals.
5. Only two ships able to jump to one cyno each minute.
6. Ships jumping into lowsec cannot jump out until their combat timers have ended.


The idea of the above is to actually have well, pvp. Currently the game is whoever has the most isk (i.e. credit card ability) just wins. That's rubbish. Need actual pvp over static objects, not capital blat fleets that have no effective risk.

PvP is meant to be risk vs reward, fun from succeeding and achieving objectives and surviving the risks. It's not happening - much of pvp in EVE is horribly boring, and rightly slammed by players who like more than spreadsheets for their gameplay.
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#2 - 2013-07-17 11:51:28 UTC
Tell me were on the POS doll PL touched you.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#3 - 2013-07-17 11:58:02 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Grace Ishukone wrote:
Title says it all.

Sick of Pandemic Leigon and other nullsec mega-rich alliances cynoing into lowsec, killing every tower on every moon vaguely worth anything, and having 0 effective risk at all. Even with 16 hardneres is takes less than 10 minutes for a PL fleet to kill a large tower from reinforced, meaning that even if someone else wants to jump in to pvp them, the cap fleet has arrived, killed the tower, and left before anyone can actually pvp them.

This is meant to be a game. There is no fun in "no way to kill them" fights.

So one or more of the changes below are needed - which are useful / not?

1. Only 6 capitals, maximum, in space in any lowsec system.
2. Lowsec POS get 500% bonus defence to attacks by capitals.
3. Carriers and Dreads in LOWSEC can be warp jammed by anything.
4. POS guns get upgraded radically so they can actually HURT capitals.
5. Only two ships able to jump to one cyno each minute.
6. Ships jumping into lowsec cannot jump out until their combat timers have ended.


The idea of the above is to actually have well, pvp. Currently the game is whoever has the most isk (i.e. credit card ability) just wins. That's rubbish. Need actual pvp over static objects, not capital blat fleets that have no effective risk.

PvP is meant to be risk vs reward, fun from succeeding and achieving objectives and surviving the risks. It's not happening - much of pvp in EVE is horribly boring, and rightly slammed by players who like more than spreadsheets for their gameplay.



meh? a simple warp disruptor / scrambler is enought to prevent a carrier or a dread to warp / jump.

if you failed at that, the ONLY way is that they were in triage / siege, meaning they couldn't warp / jump or even move anyway

also 500% resist VS capitals? yeah sure.....what about the smaller entitys then? it already take ages to kill a large tower with a couple dreads, so unless you can field 20 of them or 200+ fleet you would have no way to even scratch said tower.

so clearly NO
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#4 - 2013-07-17 11:59:26 UTC
Grace Ishukone wrote:


2. Lowsec POS get 500% bonus defence to attacks by capitals.



lol at failing to understand capital role.

PL isn't going to kill your towers if they aren't sitting on something valuable and don't drop anything valuable. I had a plat moon for 6 months, and it only got killed whilst I was unsubbed due to the price rise in plat.

Like it or lump moons are assets to be fought over by major players.
Whitehound
#5 - 2013-07-17 12:01:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Grace Ishukone wrote:
Title says it all.

Sick of Pandemic Leigon and other nullsec mega-rich alliances cynoing into lowsec, killing every tower on every moon vaguely worth anything, and having 0 effective risk at all. Even with 16 hardneres is takes less than 10 minutes for a PL fleet to kill a large tower from reinforced, meaning that even if someone else wants to jump in to pvp them, the cap fleet has arrived, killed the tower, and left before anyone can actually pvp them.

This is meant to be a game. There is no fun in "no way to kill them" fights.

So one or more of the changes below are needed - which are useful / not?

1. Only 6 capitals, maximum, in space in any lowsec system.
2. Lowsec POS get 500% bonus defence to attacks by capitals.
3. Carriers and Dreads in LOWSEC can be warp jammed by anything.
4. POS guns get upgraded radically so they can actually HURT capitals.
5. Only two ships able to jump to one cyno each minute.
6. Ships jumping into lowsec cannot jump out until their combat timers have ended.


The idea of the above is to actually have well, pvp. Currently the game is whoever has the most isk (i.e. credit card ability) just wins. That's rubbish. Need actual pvp over static objects, not capital blat fleets that have no effective risk.

PvP is meant to be risk vs reward, fun from succeeding and achieving objectives and surviving the risks. It's not happening - much of pvp in EVE is horribly boring, and rightly slammed by players who like more than spreadsheets for their gameplay.



It is the wrong forum. Better post it in Features & Ideas Discussion.

To your suggestions:

1. There should never be a limit to the number of ships within a system other than the hardware limit. Any such suggestion as yours is nonsense and a step back to "parties of 4 or 6 players". It is an MMO.
2. A 500% bonus contradicts the entire idea of dreads.
3. As interesting as it sounds (assuming you mean super carriers as well) will the suggestion shift the number ratio of caps only further away from small organizations towards the larger and largest ones. You do not want this to happen.
4. Anchor more guns?!

5. More interesting than any of the 4 previous suggestions, but instead of limiting the number of caps, which is only another suggestion that will hurt the nature of the game (being an MMO), should it have something like an anti-cyno module for disabling cynos within an area (i.e. 40km radius). Thereby forcing fleets to approach from a distance and stretching battlefields out.

6. Not sure. Was this not already part of CrimeWatch 2? Seems only fair ...

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#6 - 2013-07-17 12:21:18 UTC
Carriers and Dreads can be tackled by anything, and both have a base warp strength of 0 to boot.

Only Supers and Titans need to be HIC pointed or bubbled.
CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2013-07-17 13:34:54 UTC
Moved to Features & Ideas Discussion

CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics

@CCP_Logibro
Grace Ishukone
Ishukone Advanced Research
#8 - 2013-07-17 13:40:05 UTC
Job Valador wrote:
Tell me were on the POS doll PL touched you.


*there* and *there*



You guys seem to miss the whole point. If you want a healthy pvp game, there has to be a way for smaller alliances to develop up to the point where they are viable in nullsec.

Currently, the only way you can be in nullsec is to be part of a mega zerg.

And when those mega zergs also take over all of lowsec (they are not hitting 'one or two' moons, they are blatting all kinds of things - guess they are just super-bored in nullsec where no-one plays any more) then the simple message is if you can't gly a capital ship, you can't pvp when it matters.

Quite simply capital ships should not be allowed to utterly dominate nullsec AND lowsec pvp.

This is a game. When there are 4 or 5 alliances that have "always win, never lose" fleets (the exception being when they fight each other or get awoxed), then everyone else stats to say "why am I paying for this game again? It's not fun."


Consider these points -

1. Who trains starbase defence management and does not immediately regret wasting their time?

2. Why does CCP advertise that new players can PvP when the reality is new players may as well be ants under the tracks of main battle tanks when it comes to new players vs capital fleets?

3. If you are the ant, and know you need to either buy a toon or play for a year before you can have a tank too, how many fellow ants do you think will continue to keep playing?

4. Thank you all for gleefully pointing out that you can warp disrupt a carrier or dread. So what, they just hit jump. You know what I meant, don't pretend otherwise while also pretending to be such founts of wisdom.





Oh before someone says "if you don't like it, go and play another game!" ... well that's the problem. My friends have been leaving to play other games, and I want to play EVE. But the way things are going, EVE pvp is getting horribly split between rich veterans who can have anything they want, and new players, who can never have the thing many players want most in any MMO game - a home of their own.

We didn't want null to mine moons, or just to rat sites, or any one thing. We wanted a *home*. Currently the mechanics of the game mean we can't have that, because even though there are hundreds of empty sytems out there, they are all controlled by the fabulously rich. So unless new players buy their way into that gamespace, then they are will will be for years, nothing more than second class players who pay to sustain a game that they cannot realistically play large elements of without losing their shared identities and joining one of the existing mega zergs. And even those don't work out so well, causing massive player attrition when wars are lost.

Think about it ... if the game was doing so well, why are so many high level toons for sale? ;p
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#9 - 2013-07-17 13:49:14 UTC
Grace Ishukone wrote:
Title says it all.

Sick of Pandemic Leigon and other nullsec mega-rich alliances cynoing into lowsec, killing every tower on every moon vaguely worth anything, and having 0 effective risk at all. Even with 16 hardneres is takes less than 10 minutes for a PL fleet to kill a large tower from reinforced, meaning that even if someone else wants to jump in to pvp them, the cap fleet has arrived, killed the tower, and left before anyone can actually pvp them.

This is meant to be a game. There is no fun in "no way to kill them" fights.

So one or more of the changes below are needed - which are useful / not?

1. Only 6 capitals, maximum, in space in any lowsec system.
2. Lowsec POS get 500% bonus defence to attacks by capitals.
3. Carriers and Dreads in LOWSEC can be warp jammed by anything.
4. POS guns get upgraded radically so they can actually HURT capitals.
5. Only two ships able to jump to one cyno each minute.
6. Ships jumping into lowsec cannot jump out until their combat timers have ended.


The idea of the above is to actually have well, pvp. Currently the game is whoever has the most isk (i.e. credit card ability) just wins. That's rubbish. Need actual pvp over static objects, not capital blat fleets that have no effective risk.

PvP is meant to be risk vs reward, fun from succeeding and achieving objectives and surviving the risks. It's not happening - much of pvp in EVE is horribly boring, and rightly slammed by players who like more than spreadsheets for their gameplay.


You really shouldn't post when you're mad.

Addressing your points:

1.: PL (or someone) would just put 6 capitals in every system and then you couldn't field any. Ever.
2.: PL would just drop 100 battleships on your POS and you would still fail and whine about it.
3.: Um... they already can. L2Capital
4.: What do you want, a doomsday device on a POS?
5.: So you can handle 2 at a time eh? Probably optimistic.
6.: You really think that will stop them? You can't respond to them with capitals due to the 6 ship limit and/or 2 per cyno rule you just made up.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2013-07-17 13:52:30 UTC
Grace Ishukone wrote:
Even with 16 hardneres is takes less than 10 minutes for a PL fleet to kill a large tower from reinforced, meaning that even if someone else wants to jump in to pvp them, the cap fleet has arrived, killed the tower, and left before anyone can actually pvp them.


If the tower was in reinforced then you knew when the fleet was coming... if 10 minutes isn't enough time to warp a cyno to a tower you probably don't really have the time to manage that tower to begin with. Sounds like someone did you a favour.

Grace Ishukone wrote:

This is meant to be a game. There is no fun in "no way to kill them" fights.


Because having 16 hardeners on a tower makes for fun game play when someone wants to attack your resources. Roll

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#11 - 2013-07-17 13:55:23 UTC
Oh boy OP, you so silly.

CCP already posted a solution to all your problems a long time ago, can't you even use the search function?

The solution is: here

My Condor costs less than that module!
NuNu Dagobah
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-07-17 14:03:41 UTC
Grace Ishukone wrote:

Consider these points -

1. Who trains starbase defence management and does not immediately regret wasting their time?

2. Why does CCP advertise that new players can PvP when the reality is new players may as well be ants under the tracks of main battle tanks when it comes to new players vs capital fleets?

3. If you are the ant, and know you need to either buy a toon or play for a year before you can have a tank too, how many fellow ants do you think will continue to keep playing?

4. Thank you all for gleefully pointing out that you can warp disrupt a carrier or dread. So what, they just hit jump. You know what I meant, don't pretend otherwise while also pretending to be such founts of wisdom.


1. Starbase defence management is a useful skill, if you know how to use it.

2. New players CAN pvp, but don't expect to be able to make a stand against a 2000 man, established corporation with a massive wallet. That ain't happening in any single game, get over it.

3. Plenty, we all had to start somewhere, we were all ants at one point in time.

4. Wow, just, wow. If you don't even know how wrong you are with that, then you have no ******* business even going to lowsec. I'll explain it for you. If you're tackled in a capital (as in, scrammed or pointed), you CAN'T jump.

Also, all of the other people here are making quite a few good points as to what kind of a dumbass you are.
With this, I think it's rather obvious
Lousy idea, -1, not supported
David Magnus
#13 - 2013-07-17 14:04:42 UTC
I know your pain, OP.
For over two years I had a high-sec research tower on a moon about six jumps from Jita in an alt-corp.

I went away for just a single weekend, came back, and the tower was completely gone. I had been wardecced, tower destroyed, and then they retracted the war-dec in the span of three days. Needless to say, I was pretty upset as well.

Do you have any suggestions for mechanics to stop that from happening?

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion
Grace Ishukone
Ishukone Advanced Research
#14 - 2013-07-17 14:07:03 UTC
TehCloud wrote:
Oh boy OP, you so silly.

CCP already posted a solution to all your problems a long time ago, can't you even use the search function?

The solution is: here



No, CCP is working on a better solution. It's called World of Darkness, where there is perma death. But also the promise of much more meaningful gameplay, much richer social complexity, and wonderful clothing if their Carbon engine lives up to the old demos.

In all honesty, the "harden up or quit" idea is not working - 10 years on, EVE is alive but hardly booming, despite massive and sustained marketing efforts. EVE itself is being progressively dumbed down - just look at Odyssey. You don't need to scan down miners in belts any more, gee that makes the game require more skill! And taking the combat ships out of data sites ... YAY that made it ... oh wait. Themepark 101 designers seem to have taken over EVE. So I may as well advocate for themepark changes that support my playstyle.

And when WoD launches? Set long skill training, unsub EVE. If the new game lives up to its potential, and with CCP designing it I honestly believe it will, then EVE will quietly slip back into being nothing more than a curiosity game for accountants in space, with the design and advertising effort going into the new game that could actually make CCP a great deal of money. Yes, money ... not isk. P
Grace Ishukone
Ishukone Advanced Research
#15 - 2013-07-17 14:11:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Grace Ishukone
NuNu Dagobah wrote:

4. Wow, just, wow. If you don't even know how wrong you are with that, then you have no ******* business even going to lowsec. I'll explain it for you. If you're tackled in a capital (as in, scrammed or pointed), you CAN'T jump.


Then why do people in-game who have played far longer than I keep telling me they can still jump and that you need a HIC to stop them? (including Pandemic Leigon players). You actually tested that what you say is actually accurate post-Odyssey?



Oh ... and "no business being in lowsec" ... you are MEANT to ENCOURAGE people like me to go into lowsec. Why?

It's a PvP game FFS (again quoting PL) - you cannot complain about most of the players in the game in highsec not going to low / null, and nealy every single player in Nullsec posing up / docking rather than pvping. then say people like me shouldn't be going where we might actually get pvp'd. Especially when I *want* to pvp, but have simply no credible way to win without myself and all my friends each spending at least US$500 or waiting a year first.

This is a game, not a job. Alkthough in reality it is more than that - because if all the people like me quit, then CCP's staff may well be out of a job. All the super-rich players in nullsec pay with PLEX. after all - the moon goos pay for that as well as spare caps. They can't pay staff with ISK, so don't be too quick to make newer players want to simply give up and go play Darkfall Unholy Wars or one of the other FFA PvP full loot MMOs out there now. EVE is not alone, and likely soon not even CCP's premiere product (indeed Dust income may potentially have overtaken EVE income for them).
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#16 - 2013-07-17 14:11:42 UTC
Just fyi, skilltraining stops after 3 days if your account is unsubbed.
That said, why wait, you should leave now
(also, contract me all your stuff before you go)
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2013-07-17 14:12:01 UTC
CCP Logibro wrote:
Moved to Features & Ideas Discussion


You should have locked it for the crap post that it is...500% resists? 100% would be sufficient since it would mean no damage gets through at all.

Christ, some people simply fail at math. OP you are dumb. Really, really dumb.

We should all post facepalm pics in this thread from now on.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NuNu Dagobah
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-07-17 14:13:51 UTC  |  Edited by: NuNu Dagobah
Grace Ishukone wrote:
NuNu Dagobah wrote:

4. Wow, just, wow. If you don't even know how wrong you are with that, then you have no ******* business even going to lowsec. I'll explain it for you. If you're tackled in a capital (as in, scrammed or pointed), you CAN'T jump.


Then why do people in-game who have played far longer than I keep telling me they can still jump and that you need a HIC to stop them? (including Pandemic Leigon players). You actually tested that what you say is actually accurate post-Odyssey?


"Points at alliance"

You think I even have to test it?
Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-07-17 14:16:21 UTC
Kings of Lowsec
Mad Moxie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-07-17 14:18:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Mad Moxie
Dez Affinity wrote:
Kings of Lowsec



agreed
lol
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