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[Odyssey 1.1] Tech 1 Industrials, Round 2

First post
Author
Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#621 - 2013-07-01 15:19:02 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Wulfys Cleanup wrote:
We still need a t1, t2 that can carry a packaged battleship. It is stupid that we have to train for an orca or a freighter in an industrial sense, when it's faster to train to fly the ship it self to haul it.

Even giving a ship the capability to haul 2 packaged battleships will not interfere with the roles of the orca and freighter, but servers a middleground.

If this can be done trough a container or special bay, it will not be able to be abused, and the m3 problem solved


There is actually a reason for not being able to carry over 50,000m3 of general storage in a T1 (or T2) industrial.

Currently C1 wormholes have a mass limit of 20,000,000 m3. In simple terms, everything BUT a battleship can fit into that wormhole (a battleship is too massive that it will not fit). For a point of reference, the ORCA cannot fit into a C1. A Retriever (mining barge) can fit into a C1, the Covetor (also a mining barge), Cannot.

Giving the T1 and T1 small industrial the ability to fit battleship hulls would circumvent the C1 mass limitation on battleship hulls. Currently the only way to bring a BS or higher into a C1 is to build it in there, but then it cannot ever leave.

There might be a few other reasons but those are the ones I know of atm.




Suppose a query on cargo if one try's to use a C1 could cover that particular issue.
If BS in cargo, deny access.

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#622 - 2013-07-01 15:32:24 UTC
Mineral Ore wrote:
Quote:
ITERON MARK IV - Ore Bay (Ore includes Gas, Ice, and Mineral Ore)

<--- I'd rather not be confined to an Ore Bay....

Use another ship?

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#623 - 2013-07-01 16:43:51 UTC
Hey sorry I've been missing for a bit - weekends you know.

So I don't have much to add here, glad that you guys are still feeling good about this mostly. A couple small updates though:

We are not going to do any name changes. There's just too much risk/cost in doing that with not enough benefit in this case. It is specifically concerning that we would change them based on current function, then change function in some way down the line and be left with names that make no sense. In general changing what things are called is pretty yucky so I feel good about avoiding it here.

As far as WHEN, I can't say exactly but its a good chance that it will be before the end of Summer.

Have fun see you o/

@ccp_rise

Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#624 - 2013-07-01 17:20:10 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hey sorry I've been missing for a bit - weekends you know.

So I don't have much to add here, glad that you guys are still feeling good about this mostly. A couple small updates though:

We are not going to do any name changes. There's just too much risk/cost in doing that with not enough benefit in this case. It is specifically concerning that we would change them based on current function, then change function in some way down the line and be left with names that make no sense. In general changing what things are called is pretty yucky so I feel good about avoiding it here.

As far as WHEN, I can't say exactly but its a good chance that it will be before the end of Summer.

Have fun see you o/
Now ze HACs?

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Mineral Ore
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#625 - 2013-07-01 17:24:25 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Mineral Ore wrote:
Quote:
ITERON MARK IV - Ore Bay (Ore includes Gas, Ice, and Mineral Ore)

<--- I'd rather not be confined to an Ore Bay....

Use another ship?

Where's your humor!? My name is Mineral Ore.
Gareth Sedorak
Sedorak Corporation
#626 - 2013-07-01 17:55:48 UTC
Mineral Ore wrote:
Quote:
ITERON MARK IV - Ore Bay (Ore includes Gas, Ice, and Mineral Ore)

<--- I'd rather not be confined to an Ore Bay....



Then fly one of the many other industrial haulers....
Endeavour Starfleet
#627 - 2013-07-01 19:41:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Endeavour Starfleet
CCP Rise wrote:
Hey sorry I've been missing for a bit - weekends you know.

So I don't have much to add here, glad that you guys are still feeling good about this mostly. A couple small updates though:

We are not going to do any name changes. There's just too much risk/cost in doing that with not enough benefit in this case. It is specifically concerning that we would change them based on current function, then change function in some way down the line and be left with names that make no sense. In general changing what things are called is pretty yucky so I feel good about avoiding it here.

As far as WHEN, I can't say exactly but its a good chance that it will be before the end of Summer.

Have fun see you o/


I really hope you and the team at CCP can find a way to get them out sooner than that. The new haulers are going to make these tasks something that isn't as much as a nightmare to do. Then again I can understand if there are other changes like HAC rebalancing scheduled as well.
Sassums
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#628 - 2013-07-01 21:21:06 UTC
What will the mineral requirements be for these ships, will they be changing?

I would assume (granted i've never built one) that the mark II, III, and IV require less minerals than the Ity V?
Endeavour Starfleet
#629 - 2013-07-01 21:42:55 UTC
Sassums wrote:
What will the mineral requirements be for these ships, will they be changing?

I would assume (granted i've never built one) that the mark II, III, and IV require less minerals than the Ity V?


This is Tiericide the other times they have done this kind of change they have moved build requirements up to or near that of the highest Tier before the change.

Personally I suspect we will see a similar change here. These ships will become useful so their Mineral requirements will go up to that of the V today in my opinion.
Kraschyn Thek'athor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#630 - 2013-07-02 01:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kraschyn Thek'athor
Evelgrivion wrote:
The ammunition bay seems like an avenue for considerable abuse; you can fit quite a few hoarders inside of a carrier's ship maintenance bay, and each of those hoarders can be filled to the brim with ammunition for mineral compression purposes.


Hoarder is 240.000m, so 4x Hoarders per carrier.
4x 41.000 = 164.000m
normal Bays = 50.000
214.000m capacity for the price of an 1,3 billion isk carrier.
Roughly two carrier substitute an JF in the role of high sec mineral import.

But before, it was also possible to fit ammo loaded industrials into the carriers. So... not a big thing.
Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#631 - 2013-07-02 02:27:45 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hey sorry I've been missing for a bit - weekends you know.

So I don't have much to add here, glad that you guys are still feeling good about this mostly. A couple small updates though:

We are not going to do any name changes. There's just too much risk/cost in doing that with not enough benefit in this case. It is specifically concerning that we would change them based on current function, then change function in some way down the line and be left with names that make no sense. In general changing what things are called is pretty yucky so I feel good about avoiding it here.

As far as WHEN, I can't say exactly but its a good chance that it will be before the end of Summer.

Have fun see you o/


Sounds good.
Well, we'll get over the names. I for one have no problem with it. Never got really behind why it is that much of a trouble (for the community that is). Of course, unique names would really help but in the end, writing Mk 1 thru 5 isnt that hard either. Unless I'm missing something ultra important on tha subject.

It would still be cool if we could squeeze in some other little things, you know - Pretty please! Pirate

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

CFD None
Ventus Impirito
#632 - 2013-07-02 06:09:46 UTC  |  Edited by: CFD None
I would like faction industrials to be a real thing. Bloodied paint-job and bonused neuting haulers would be interesting to me. On a practical note, the EWAR would be a nice way to wiggle away from potential tackles. With all the cross training that will be going on, it makes sense.

P
Endeavour Starfleet
#633 - 2013-07-02 07:24:03 UTC
As hopefully the T1 line has been discussed properly perhaps we can start thinking about Tech 2!

I have started a topic for this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254792
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#634 - 2013-07-02 08:29:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldensaver
Kraschyn Thek'athor wrote:

Hoarder is 240.000m, so 4x Hoarders per carrier.
4x 41.000 = 164.000m
normal Bays = 50.000
214.000m capacity for the price of an 1,3 billion isk carrier.
Roughly two carrier substitute an JF in the role of high sec mineral import.

But before, it was also possible to fit ammo loaded industrials into the carriers. So... not a big thing.

+10% per level as well.

4x41.000x1.5 (at max skill level)
So 246.000+50000
So just shy of 300k.

Still not JF level, but a carrier and 4 hoarders are a lot cheaper, and it's about 30 days to get into the hoarder and trained to max Minmatar industrial.


Gareth Sedorak wrote:

Then fly one of the many other industrial haulers....

Woosh!

Maximus Andendare wrote:


Use another ship?

Double wooooooosh!

Mineral Ore wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:

Use another ship?

Where's your humor!? My name is Mineral Ore.



I don't think they quite got it.
Xorth Adimus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#635 - 2013-07-02 09:28:49 UTC
You still have it all wrong.. you have the opportunity to make a real useful change

You need 3 distinct roles before you even start throwing numbers about , such as:

Mining support industrial - would be useful for many roles but with added benefit in transporting ore gas and fuel in a seperate hold, average sized normal hold to make it flexable, would have a good slot layout typically and 2/3/4.

Exploration support industrial - smallest hold but has sufficient fitting to be very flexible can apply a decent tank and also fit a wide range of exploration equipment, it has a small ship hanger to carry a frigate, typical slot layout would be 4/5/5. I would even go so far as to say battle badger Pirate!

Transport industrial - has a large hold, small tank and not much choice in fitting 1/2/2

To prevent exploits just don't allow storage of unpackaged transports in carrier hangers or holds (just as you can't put a can in another can).


Where does this leave T2?
Blockade runner - same basic layout as the exploration ship but with bigger hold bay and tank - basicly perfect as a mini orca for wormhole use.
Cloaky transport - as today with possibly a slightly smaller bay, with a fuel bay to augment more specialisation for supporting blackops capitals and fuelling pos.

This then gives a wider range of options for T3 transports.. one day soon (tm).
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
#636 - 2013-07-02 09:34:23 UTC
I expected at least now lowered HP for cargo role (it was quite hard to tank my current mammoth, you know). And more cargo extenders (+ lows - base) lower structure HP even more.. Pushes me to switch to Mastodon completelyBlink

And yes, I personally would really appreciate fuel transport capability for industrials.

And.. Errm... Originally the Iterons and Mammoth were industrials that specialized in hauling everything without any customisation required, that (in the backstory) brought them success and it all seems gone now.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#637 - 2013-07-02 12:14:00 UTC
Kraschyn Thek'athor wrote:
Evelgrivion wrote:
The ammunition bay seems like an avenue for considerable abuse; you can fit quite a few hoarders inside of a carrier's ship maintenance bay, and each of those hoarders can be filled to the brim with ammunition for mineral compression purposes.


Hoarder is 240.000m, so 4x Hoarders per carrier.
4x 41.000 = 164.000m
normal Bays = 50.000
214.000m capacity for the price of an 1,3 billion isk carrier.
Roughly two carrier substitute an JF in the role of high sec mineral import.

But before, it was also possible to fit ammo loaded industrials into the carriers. So... not a big thing.

CCP Rise wrote:

HOARDER - Ammo bay (This includes anything in the 'charge' group - bombs/cap charges/etc)

Minmatar Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+10% Ammo Bay Capacity
+5% Max Velocity

Slot layout: 3H(+1), 4M(+1), 3L; 2 turrets(+1), 0 launchers
Fittings: 180 PWG(+120), 300 CPU(-350)
Cargo (capacity / Ammo/Charge Bay Capacity): 500(-4600) / 41000
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 840(+566) / 800(-216) / 2100(+1084)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 / .85(-.15) / 10625000(-875000) / 12.5(-3.4)
Signature radius: 185(+5)
Warp speed: 4.5au/s
Unpacked Volume: Increased to 400000

You can now only fit 2 in a carrier.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Twikki
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#638 - 2013-07-02 12:46:20 UTC
I think 2 ship types were missed from the initial thread.

Frieghter and Jump Frieghter

Why not give them the ability to have 1 low slot!

Therefore for those wishing could say fit a damage control, to virtually double there Tank

What does this mean?

Will still get ganked in highsec, but they they will have to field more ships in order to carry this out

And give them a bonus like the venture

After all these are expensive ships, we should be able to defend them a little

Its not like we can jump in a triage carrier to assist
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#639 - 2013-07-02 13:18:51 UTC
Yes, we will be rebalancing the manufacturing requirements in a similar manner to other recent rebalance efforts.

Yes, on to HACs =)

I completely agree that this rebalance paves the way for more industrial ship rebalancing in other classes, but those efforts aren't on the short term radar. There's just so many ships to work on! And new ones to create! And we really want to start chipping away at mod rebalance as well.

@ccp_rise

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#640 - 2013-07-02 13:27:34 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Yes, on to HACs =)

Like soon(tm) or later today, or this week?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.