Player Features and Ideas Discussion

BLASPHEMY!


;)

The Orca did an excellent job of drawing attention to the disparity between Industrials and Freighters. The solution is not to nerf the Orca but make the easier to train to Industrials better. This is certainly a step in the right direction and more tweaking should be sought out.

Power Creep with Industrials is what we need. Not nerfing of the Orca (which was already nerfed with the replacement of corporate hangers.

Just my perspective.

Awesome changes for now. Time will tell if all is of this is good, but there's a lot for new players and finally a reason to crosstrain for established hauler chars.

Come to think of it, most of my haulers are currently on a int/mem remap. Dammn...

I still really like the update rise, but I think that something was overlooked.

The sigil simply fails to be the tanky industrial because of slot layout. The simple reality is industrials are shield tanks because cargo low slots and cargo rigs are disharmonious with armor tanking. After playing around with the numbers a little it really looks like the the specialty of the sigil is lost under real build conditions.

Specifically, I see the most general fit for the sigil being 2 LSE II's, 2 shield hardeners, and cargo expander lows and rigs. In this configuration it will have:

Sigil
6030 shield HP + 2 hardeners worth of resists
1629 armor hp
629 hull hp
(all skills level 0 except for astronomic rigging 5).

Compare that to the other tanky aligny ships:

Badger (2 meta 4 LSE's, 4 hardeners + max cargo)
5940 shield hp + 4 hardeners
643 armor HP
843 structure HP

Wreath (2 LSE II's + 2 resist amps + 1 hardener + max cargo)
6390 shield HP + 2 resist amps + 1 hardener
857 armor HP
737 structure HP

Iteron (2 LSE II's, + 3 hardeners + max cargo)
6210 shield HP + 3 hardeners
900 armor HP
851 structure HP

The only situation where the sigil really gets to flex it's specialty of highest hp is when 2625 m3 of cargo is sufficient, which would allow you to use all the low slots for a nice armor tank. But again, the reality is that shield tanks are preferable because they allow you to use the industrial to it's maximum hauling potential.

I honestly think that the sigil could exchange some of it's armor hp for some extra base shield hp. I also think that if the sigil can't match hardeners it's always going to miss it's intended role, so I think that a 2/6/4 or a 1/6/5 slot layout is required.

Just some food for thought.

/someone should probably check my numbers to make sure I'm not a moron, I was assuming level 0 skills except for astronomic rigging 5

edit: max fitting skills are assumed, so engineering 5 and shield upgrades 5.

I know that it is probably not possible with the current mechanic but a POS hauler would be awesome (aka POS/POS mods/fuelblocks/stront - bay)

This is not a tiericide.

Every bonus is cargo and velocity/agility.

Imagine if all the cruisers only had a damage and velocity bonus, and otherwise only varied between a small number of turrets to large number of turrets.

There is no other utility here but "hauls cargo" and no real choices except "hauls less, quickly" and "hauls more, slowly". And Gallente get 3 extra-large versions, but limits on what type of stuff can go in them.

So not only do we still get tiers of cargo ships, (same bonuses but better base stats) but when you look at the numbers it really comes down to "Battle Badger" or Gallente if you actually what to haul stuff. Cross training is easier, but with these ideas there is no reason to cross train. Gallente Industrial V is Best Industrial V.


Give us something more than a little variation in cargohold size and align time. The restricted cargoholds can be saved for some future ORE cargo ship, or some zany Tech3 Industrial.

How about shield resists for the Badger, like a quick armored car. Armor resists for the Bestower, for those wanting a big slow brick. Tractor beam bonus is an obvious one to throw on something. I used all that extra cpu to put an expanded probe launcher on my Mammoth, came in handy several times to be able to use combat probes, so a probe bonus would be nice. A fleet hanger with refitting on one or two of them would be useful, and it gives reason for people to leave these ships in space for others who want to hunt them. How about a turret bonus for the Hoarder's 2 guns, or an Iteron with a full flight of bonused light drones. Have a couple options for fighting back.

Give Industrials some racial flavor and some interesting bonuses. If you want special bays, a fleet hanger would be far more useful. Make them sexier than just boring old speed vs cargo.

Frankly, with Wreathe, I'm not planning on tanking much. With that many lows, I'd rather fit it for pure speed. 3x Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer = 10.37 AU/s, add Nanofibers, Inertia Stabilizers and an MWD and you've got one insanely fast industrial that can still survive some trouble. If I'll need more cargo, Cargohold Expanders can add the needed flexibility.



Why are you using the best tanking hauler if you need maximum hauling potential? Wouldn't you consider that something with more mid slots would be a better idea then? The way I see Sigil used is for very expensive low volume cargo that needs maximum possible defense available at the cost of all the cargo volume. It can still be fit in a different way, but it will always be suboptimal at it compared to other haulers.

plus if I am reading this correctly we will get the full benefit from the specialised bays with only 1 level in Gal Indy?

this is a good change. Ya'll done good by the indys. The one thing I might suggest for these is to allow the ammo hauler to also service refits - ala Jester's fleet tender idea (sorry I don't have the link).

As a wormholer can I just say how much I love you for giving all haulers 2 high slots? <3

Really good changes.

Variance is the key.

After reading the Sigil specs I was like 'meh, better but..' then I read the Badger specs and a smile lit my face, after reading through all the ship specs I was grinning like a mad man. Now my co-workers are looking me funny. A job well done Rise, thank you.

Iteron name change was mentioned by some people, for the record; I absolutely object that idea. No name change!

Thanks for these changes Rise, and thanks also for putting up with us sometimes rabid community members. We can be demanding, but only because we want EvE to be the best it can be

Love the drones on the itty 1! Very gallente. And I love the specialist haulers, that's the sort of diversity I was hoping to see. Well done chaps!