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Vote: Black Ops Battleships and Covert Cloaking Device

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Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#101 - 2013-06-24 15:07:49 UTC
Maybe they should. I suppose seeing gate camps or doctrines around them would eventually come out of doing something like that but they cost a billion to field v0v

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#102 - 2013-06-24 15:25:24 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Blops with a covert cloak would be dumb as hell.


Why?

Dump the speed bonus for the ability to fit Cover Ops Cloaking Device sticks far better with a Cover Ops ship BS sized.

Why would this make them OP? -you can't probe them in warp, you can't probe them once out of warp and hit cloak anyways unless the pilot is really really dumb or drunk enough to jump instead of bridge.

You always know when a Blops gang is around when they killed some stuff, not because of their eventual ability to warp to whatever safe spot cloak, this is a bad argument.


Maybe in 0.0, but in lowsec Black Ops range span multiple regions and no one got intel network casting such a wide net.

E.g. that range from a Black Ops from Osoggur at JDC 4 covers 84 lowsec systems over 7 regions. If you can't achieve surprise under those conditions, you are truly hopeless.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Panther,4/Osoggur
Friggz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#103 - 2013-06-24 19:21:53 UTC
Caius Sivaris wrote:

T3 do a pretty good job at being bridgeable logis, I really don't see the point of making the role of blackops overlap with T3/carriers.


They really don't. Three times the cost of a T2 logi and they perform significantly worse than a T1 logi. The lack a range bonus to their reps means using them is highly impractical.

That said, I think Black Ops needs to have logis to support them, not be logis themselves. If they were the logis that leaves recons and bombers for the rest of your fleet. You could keep your recons up with reps but the enemy fleet would just kill your bombers. An E-war fleet without dps to back it up isn't all that useful. Not to mention that it makes little sense to field a billion isk ship to rep 200 million isk recons. The is little point to adding a logi to the Black Ops line unless you also add a dps ship that can actually tank to make the logis useful.

Of course, adding a cloaky ship that can tank well enough to be repped and can still dps brings us right back to the same problem we have with Black Ops now: How do you balance that?
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#104 - 2013-06-25 14:01:05 UTC
Caius Sivaris wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Blops with a covert cloak would be dumb as hell.


Why?

Dump the speed bonus for the ability to fit Cover Ops Cloaking Device sticks far better with a Cover Ops ship BS sized.

Why would this make them OP? -you can't probe them in warp, you can't probe them once out of warp and hit cloak anyways unless the pilot is really really dumb or drunk enough to jump instead of bridge.

You always know when a Blops gang is around when they killed some stuff, not because of their eventual ability to warp to whatever safe spot cloak, this is a bad argument.


Maybe in 0.0, but in lowsec Black Ops range span multiple regions and no one got intel network casting such a wide net.

E.g. that range from a Black Ops from Osoggur at JDC 4 covers 84 lowsec systems over 7 regions. If you can't achieve surprise under those conditions, you are truly hopeless.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Panther,4/Osoggur



Then the hopeless issue of black ops will remain?

Balance them around low sec because low sec owns all and you can't have an intell chan covering 7LY (their max range jump with 5) ?

Balance them around WH's?

Balance them around Null sec?

Balance them around High sec?

Doesn't matter how many systems they cover/are used if it's low high wh or null sec, it matters it's a 1B mark Battleship with a BC tank and DPS (gank Brutix gets far more dps leave alone attack battlecrusiers), oyster mobility once cloak any T1 fitted noob frigate can easily decloak.

People say cover cloak would make it OP yet they are unable to explain why with reasonable arguments. Nothing.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Cheerfull Person
A Dead Cookie Doesn't Crumble
#105 - 2013-06-25 15:18:54 UTC
Doesnt really matter with local, does it?

Only place it matters are WHs, and blops suck in WHs since they are as heavy as a normal battleship + prop mod (and normal battleship already suck in WHs).

If you want cloaky warp, just take a T3, cheaper, better dmg, better tank, better lock times for you, worse for the enemy, only misses out a bit on range.