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[s]Mars[/s] EVE needs Women!

First post First post First post
Author
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#541 - 2013-06-13 17:32:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarra Mandalin
Go to any court (with jurisdiction) in the USA and you'll find corporations responsible for employee/customer behavior. The same works for government (kinda). This TOO is how the world works --as it should be. There is both personal and corporate responsibility to deal with issues that are legally and/or morally wrong.

A corporation doesn't need to endorse, let's say for example, sexual harassment to be deemed guilty to some degree IF said corporation is aware of it and turning a blind eye.

Are they responsible for the behavior itself? No.
Are they responsible for not taking corrective action within the confines of their legal entity? Yes.
In some cases they are responsible for educating their employees to not overtly or inadvertently promote this behavior as well.

People can be really stupid, so much so that people can't dress safely. I mean we even have signs telling people "no shoes, no service."

It's not unreasonable to expect CCP to act upon issues that create a hostile or harassing environment for anyone. The problem, in part, is separating run-of-the mill in-game harassment from the real deal.

Also, there is this thing called ETHICS -- whereas a corporation may not be legally compelled to do something but act in a manner that is seen best for its customers, if not the society it affects.

I don't think CCP is the evil one here... but I would not be disappointed to see them be a little more proactive -- as they are in the forums. (examples have been well noted in prior posts).
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#542 - 2013-06-13 17:34:03 UTC
You'll never succeed in getting a significant amount of women playing this game. This game enables open season bullying on people. Imagine a girl who wants to be at the mercy of some of the evil people here in Eve?
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#543 - 2013-06-13 17:34:32 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:

The fact is that your strategy works better in real life because you can't log out of real life.


It does not work better in real life than it does in game, it works the exact same way. I don't have to work at the job I do and if I didn't like the conditions I'd leave. if it were a hostile work environment (which is illegal) that would be different, but Im talking about the minor "banter and BS" issues. As I've told fellow officers, If I didn't like (or at least couldn't stand) the culture of my department (but none of it was a violation of my rights) I'd quit and go work for one of the other 18,000 Law Enforcement Agencies my country has (you think EVE is "white and male", join an American Police Department lol).

In that kind of situation, as in ALL situations (even those that don't involve race or sex or some other status), people just simply have to accept that perfection isn't attainable. That doesn't mean things have to stay the same, but having unrealistic expectations of other human beings is the sure path to disappointment.

Quote:

My takeaway from this thread, as a white man with an occasional neckbeard (winters are cold here!), is simply that it's on us as the overwhelming majority to change the atmosphere. If we do, we reap the benefits of a more diverse playerbase. If we don't, it's the same old same old--which it sounds like a few people in the thread prefer. There will always be poorly adjusted people, borderliners and other unsettling people in any setting with any significant population, but I'd consider it a straight upgrade if that was the only problem anyone ever ran across when they decided to come here and blow up some spaceships.


How would anything anyone (but maybe CCP) could do have any impact on the "culture" here? How do you use societal or peer pressure on people sitting anonymously at a keyboard in some cave? You think you can convince EVE players (one of the most notorious online communities on Earth) to be nicer to and more tolerant of each other in the name of diversity?

That's probably my biggest bone to pick with this thread, it's pie in the sky thinking. What actual practical steps could anyone take to bring about "more diversity" if the big stumbling block is the community?

It's what I tell people (other "minorities" so to speak) on my job, your legal rights are one thing (just like in game no one can harass you or do certain things or else CCP will chop them up). But beyond that, you're just going to have to learn to live with an imperfect world of imperfect people. That or go crazy fretting that things aren't just like you like them.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#544 - 2013-06-13 17:40:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Ace Menda wrote:
Jenn aSide I like your posts...they really make me laugh and I really like your attitude.

But as said, people play this game for fun. In real life there is no log off button so you have to deal with it. In EVE, you just quit. And nobody wins from that:

CCP lost a subscriber (and thus income)
EVE gets a bad reputation from it
We loose a player that might have became a great person in EVE
And somebody had a ****** time playing a game.


All because some retards can't respect other people's feeling.


The other way this game is different from real life is that it lets you kill the retards lol.

I see it like this: In real life, those "retards", by existing, provide a need for organized police forces. So, if stupid people went away, so would my job lol.

In the game, stupid people provide THE most fun, if for no other reason than they post in General Discussion, usually to just Get pwned by Tippia or someone like lol. And their ships explode, which again is more than you can actually do to them in real life ie when i meet a racist guy i can't blow up his car lol.\

Wouldn't' that be epic though? Racist guy: "WHITE POW" ..*BOOM car explodes* Cool

A utopia where everyone was nice and cordial and cooperative and smart would suck mucho culo lol.
Shedemei Silfar
Miskatonic Mercantile
#545 - 2013-06-13 17:50:14 UTC
So true... half the reason I play PvP games is because i get to kill rude people Pirate
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#546 - 2013-06-13 18:33:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:

The fact is that your strategy works better in real life because you can't log out of real life.


It does not work better in real life than it does in game, it works the exact same way. I don't have to work at the job I do and if I didn't like the conditions I'd leave. if it were a hostile work environment (which is illegal) that would be different, but Im talking about the minor "banter and BS" issues. As I've told fellow officers, If I didn't like (or at least couldn't stand) the culture of my department (but none of it was a violation of my rights) I'd quit and go work for one of the other 18,000 Law Enforcement Agencies my country has (you think EVE is "white and male", join an American Police Department lol).


I take it that you don't work for the New Orleans PD, then. ;-)

Yes, you can leave work, just as you can leave a corp in EVE; but if only the atmosphere stopped at a job, right? It tends not to, although certainly some work environments are more toxic than the ambient culture is..

Jenn aSide wrote:
How would anything anyone (but maybe CCP) could do have any impact on the "culture" here? How do you use societal or peer pressure on people sitting anonymously at a keyboard in some cave? You think you can convince EVE players (one of the most notorious online communities on Earth) to be nicer to and more tolerant of each other in the name of diversity?

That's probably my biggest bone to pick with this thread, it's pie in the sky thinking. What actual practical steps could anyone take to bring about "more diversity" if the big stumbling block is the community?


How has any societal progress been made, ever? You just need enough people, and enough time. It helps if the first few are crazy.

As for being nice to each other in EVE, I'm not talking about in game niceness, although that's an option--Goonswarm is famously nice to its own, for example. If you look at what CCP says about EVE's community, and what a lot of players say as well, it comes out like this: Your character can Awox, scam, gank, defraud, ROFLstomp, and otherwise harry other characters all day and all night. Your characters can be bright red archenemies. And if you see each other in a pub, you get some beers and talk about EVE. It's exactly that sort of rugby-player mentality that I'd like to see generalized: Kick the crap out of each other on the field all day, every day; trash talk and banter all day, every day; but don't bring irrelevant hatreds into it. All you're doing is shrinking the pool of available people to fight with and fight against, and however bare-knuckled the game itself may be, that doesn't help the game.

After all, most of this thread isn't about the way women have been treated by reds. It's about the way they've been treated by their own teammates.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#547 - 2013-06-13 18:37:21 UTC
Quote:
The term "outsider". Why are we outsiders, exactly? Why do you SEE us as outsiders?


I already said as much, numbers. Within the community of the game, 4 in 100 means you are pretty much the definition of an outsider in the context of that social setting.

Quote:
Here's the thing.... Unless these nerds have been on mars for the last 10 years, they are probably commonly in situations where they interact with women at least on some level.


Given the propensity of just a small amount of people on this thread, who will happily call such people; "nerds" "neckbeards" "cavemen", "racists" "misogynists" "dorks" "losers" "morons" "retards", I'd have to say I understand if they're hesitant to step into that arena, yeah. Mean words aren't exactly only used by one side. HTFU applies equally, of course.

Here's a good example of that.

Quote:
I get the feeling you are just one of those stupid retards that don't know how to deal with other people Kaarous


This person can get that feeling all they please. Doesn't bother me. But it's a pretty good example of demonizing someone who disagrees with you, while patting the other 7 people, who all are constantly just upvoting each other and reposting the same tripe, on the back for being so good at arguing with one guy vs all of them. Roll

Quote:
It's very simple...respect others, Period.


No. Respect is earned, not given. You don't get it by being born, you don't get it by breathing, and you don't get it for having $15 a month to pay and log on.

Quote:
Agree.

Hence if I see someone misbehave, I make their live such a PITA that they leave.


Oh yes, let's not discuss the situation, let's drive someone out, and further reinforce their belief that they won't be treated fairly by the women and the white knights. That will change the minds of the playerbase at large. Yeesh.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Have the discussion. Don't just wave the magic wand of labeling, call them a *insert word*-ist, and claim victory by default. That's not only intellectually dishonest, but it digs their heels in to boot.



"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#548 - 2013-06-13 18:47:30 UTC
This was so inane I had to dedicate my own post to it. Here we go!

Quote:
Go to any court (with jurisdiction) in the USA and you'll find corporations responsible for employee/customer behavior. The same works for government (kinda). This TOO is how the world works --as it should be. There is both personal and corporate responsibility to deal with issues that are legally and/or morally wrong.

A corporation doesn't need to endorse, let's say for example, sexual harassment to be deemed guilty to some degree IF said corporation is aware of it and turning a blind eye.

Are they responsible for the behavior itself? No.
Are they responsible for not taking corrective action within the confines of their legal entity? Yes.
In some cases they are responsible for educating their employees to not overtly or inadvertently promote this behavior as well.

People can be really stupid, so much so that people can't dress safely. I mean we even have signs telling people "no shoes, no service."

It's not unreasonable to expect CCP to act upon issues that create a hostile or harassing environment for anyone. The problem, in part, is separating run-of-the mill in-game harassment from the real deal.

Also, there is this thing called ETHICS -- whereas a corporation may not be legally compelled to do something but act in a manner that is seen best for its customers, if not the society it affects.

I don't think CCP is the evil one here... but I would not be disappointed to see them be a little more proactive -- as they are in the forums. (examples have been well noted in prior posts).


Corporations are responsible for employee behavior only. If I walk into WalMart tomorrow and kick someone's ass, that person doesn't get to sue WalMart for damages. You seem to have no legal knowledge whatsoever just judging from that statement. Let's see if the trend continues.

There is no personal or corporate responsibility to deal with issues that are morally wrong. Where, anywhere in United States law, is that written? (I'll give you a hint, you made it up)

"Are they responsible for the behavior itself? No.
Are they responsible for not taking corrective action within the confines of their legal entity? NO."

I fixed this for you. Do you remember the part where you clicked "I agree" on the user agreement I am guessing you didn't read?

There's a part in there that says:

Quote:
CCP does not, as a matter of policy, prescreen the communications or content transmitted by each player and is in no way responsible for the communications and content transmitted by players of the Game.


http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-eula/

Quote:
People can be really stupid, so much so that people can't dress safely. I mean we even have signs telling people "no shoes, no service."


This is definitely one of the top 5 stupidest things I've seen on this forum to date. You've never, not once in your life, heard of "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#549 - 2013-06-13 18:47:52 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:


Yes, you can leave work, just as you can leave a corp in EVE; but if only the atmosphere stopped at a job, right?


I don't quite understand what you mean here.

[/quote]
How has any societal progress been made, ever? You just need enough people, and enough time. It helps if the first few are crazy.[/quote]

Time and people to do what exactly? In real life thingas change when they have to, and many times only after a War (like slavery in the U.S.) or after significant government intervention (like Jim crow laws, apartheid etc etc).

That's what I'm saying, short of CCP doing something (as if they could), what else can be done? do you wardec racists? Do you get Alliances to sign anti-sexism pacts and take their R64 moons away if some grunt player makes a yo momma joke? What?

Quote:

As for being nice to each other in EVE, I'm not talking about in game niceness, although that's an option--Goonswarm is famously nice to its own, for example. If you look at what CCP says about EVE's community, and what a lot of players say as well, it comes out like this: Your character can Awox, scam, gank, defraud, ROFLstomp, and otherwise harry other characters all day and all night. Your characters can be bright red archenemies. And if you see each other in a pub, you get some beers and talk about EVE. It's exactly that sort of rugby-player mentality that I'd like to see generalized: Kick the crap out of each other on the field all day, every day; trash talk and banter all day, every day; but don't bring irrelevant hatreds into it. All you're doing is shrinking the pool of available people to fight with and fight against, and however bare-knuckled the game itself may be, that doesn't help the game.

After all, most of this thread isn't about the way women have been treated by reds. It's about the way they've been treated by their own teammates.


I get all that. It's a nice sentiment, but it's just a sentiment. As someone who does an "Enforcement" job that aims at specific bad behaviors, I just don't know what some of you think we could actually DO about the situations being discussed that will bring about some kind of change that will attract more "diversity" to EVE online.

The fact is, there is nothing anyone (including CCP ) could do beyond what is already does. CCP already bans racist and sexist behavior in chats/on forums (i remember onces seeing a corp called "The Final solution", it wasn't long before CCP spanked them and took the name away) and many alliances and player groups are highly intolerant of those practices as well. But some groups aren't and you can tell on their (3rd party) comms. Flying around space typing "don't be a sexist douche" in each local chat won't have any effect lol.
Juny Wuny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#550 - 2013-06-13 19:01:44 UTC
Ana Vyr wrote:
You'll never succeed in getting a significant amount of women playing this game. This game enables open season bullying on people. Imagine a girl who wants to be at the mercy of some of the evil people here in Eve?


Most women who play EVE do so because they love EVE. They adapt to a sense of "I'm going to do what I enjoy and damn it all if anyone has an issue with it." This is how a lot of minorities end up reacting to negative feedback.
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#551 - 2013-06-13 19:18:57 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
The term "outsider". Why are we outsiders, exactly? Why do you SEE us as outsiders?


I already said as much, numbers. Within the community of the game, 4 in 100 means you are pretty much the definition of an outsider in the context of that social setting.


Outsider =/= Minority

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#552 - 2013-06-13 19:25:42 UTC
Ace Menda wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
The term "outsider". Why are we outsiders, exactly? Why do you SEE us as outsiders?


I already said as much, numbers. Within the community of the game, 4 in 100 means you are pretty much the definition of an outsider in the context of that social setting.


Outsider =/= Minority


I see we are taking this 4th grade style.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/outsider

First definition.

In a social context, a 4% minority is more or less an outsider.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#553 - 2013-06-13 19:31:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Menda
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ace Menda wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
The term "outsider". Why are we outsiders, exactly? Why do you SEE us as outsiders?


I already said as much, numbers. Within the community of the game, 4 in 100 means you are pretty much the definition of an outsider in the context of that social setting.


Outsider =/= Minority


I see we are taking this 4th grade style.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/outsider

First definition.

In a social context, a 4% minority is more or less an outsider.


1. a person not belonging to a particular group, set, party, etc.

Tell me. Since when is gender a specific group, set or party?

I still believe they are belong to the same group as you do, EVE player.

Okay, maybe not to your elite clan of basement dwellers...but you are the outsider there..majority of the people live above ground.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#554 - 2013-06-13 19:32:58 UTC
Quote:
1. a person not belonging to a particular group, set, party, etc.

I still believe they are belong to the same group as you do, EVE player.


...did you miss the part where we were talking about women? Or the part where I mentioned a 4% minority?

Yeah, we all play the game. That is apparent by the fact that we're all posting on this very forum. But context, yeesh.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#555 - 2013-06-13 19:36:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Thank you for calling out the use of "******," by the way. That was exactly on point, and a perfect example of the sort of activism that people on this thread are (however imperfectly) hoping for.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Oh yes, let's not discuss the situation, let's drive someone out, and further reinforce their belief that they won't be treated fairly by the women and the white knights. That will change the minds of the playerbase at large. Yeesh.


Yes, let's drive someone out and further reinforce their belief that they won't be treated fairly... because their behavior drives people out and further reinforces their belief that they won't be treated fairly. Oh, the humanity! If they can't distinguish between their own hateful lashing out and someone calling them on their behavior, the game loses nothing if they leave. EVE is for adults.

Most people behave that way on the assumption that they are doing so with the tacit acceptance, if not support, of their peers. So if you as a peer point out that it's not acceptable to you (assuming that it is), you change the atmosphere.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Have the discussion. Don't just wave the magic wand of labeling, call them a *insert word*-ist, and claim victory by default. That's not only intellectually dishonest, but it digs their heels in to boot.


I have to admit that I'm fascinated by the tactic of reducing critical, but descriptive adjectives to empty slurs. Please, have the discussion, but leave off any descriptive terms, because some people are too sore to wear the shoes that fit them. This is especially funny when the sore person in question has been freely slinging around all kinds of empty slurs.

[EDIT: for example, the use of "outsider" to represent women implies that the player's sex is more significant than their in-game allegiances or accomplishments. The women in my alliance are a minority too, but nobody would even think to describe them as "outsiders." They're fellow players. They hang out with us. They crack jokes on comms. They run in our fleets. If that isn't "insider," nothing is. The use of the word only makes sense in a context where women are excluded.]

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#556 - 2013-06-13 19:37:49 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
1. a person not belonging to a particular group, set, party, etc.

I still believe they are belong to the same group as you do, EVE player.


...did you miss the part where we were talking about women? Or the part where I mentioned a 4% minority?

Yeah, we all play the game. That is apparent by the fact that we're all posting on this very forum. But context, yeesh.


So, instead of classing women gamers who play EVE as just a fellow person who plays the same game.

You class them as an separate group.

Damn, you are narrow minded.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#557 - 2013-06-13 19:44:27 UTC
Quote:
Yes, let's drive someone out and further reinforce their belief that they won't be treated fairly... because their behavior drives people out and further reinforces their belief that they won't be treated fairly. Oh, the humanity! If they can't distinguish between their own hateful lashing out and someone calling them on their behavior, the game loses nothing if they leave. EVE is for adults.

Most people behave that way on the assumption that they are doing so with the tacit acceptance, if not support, of their peers. So if you as a peer point out that it's not acceptable to you (assuming that it is), you change the atmosphere.


You miss the point entirely. Do you want to ban them, rehabilitate their behavior, or simply remove them from your sight?

Seeing as the game pretty well can't afford to kick that many people out, that leaves two choices.

So, unless you'd like to simply drive them into their groups vs yours, the option to rehabilitate them is the only remaining.

In which case...

Have the discussion. Don't just claim victory by fiat.

Or are we not trying to change minds and improve the game thusly? Are we just here to throw around some denigrating words and demonize others, while patting ourselves on the back for agreement and upvoting endlessly?

Because if that's the case, you're morally equivalent to the people you're hating on.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Shedemei Silfar
Miskatonic Mercantile
#558 - 2013-06-13 19:50:20 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
The term "outsider". Why are we outsiders, exactly? Why do you SEE us as outsiders?


I already said as much, numbers. Within the community of the game, 4 in 100 means you are pretty much the definition of an outsider in the context of that social setting.

Quote:
Here's the thing.... Unless these nerds have been on mars for the last 10 years, they are probably commonly in situations where they interact with women at least on some level.


Given the propensity of just a small amount of people on this thread, who will happily call such people; "nerds" "neckbeards" "cavemen", "racists" "misogynists" "dorks" "losers" "morons" "retards", I'd have to say I understand if they're hesitant to step into that arena, yeah. Mean words aren't exactly only used by one side. HTFU applies equally, of course.


That depends on how you're defining the population. I really don't see myself as one of the "4 out of 100". I see myself as one of the 75 out of 100 who are here to play the game, and one of the 10 out of 100 who will speak up when someone steps really obviously way outta line.. not just with a bit of banter, but with malicious intent. I don't consider myself an outsider.

As far as the name calling, yup you're right... except for one minor thing.
These names are not based on the race, gender, sexual preference, etc. of the individual - i.e. things that have no effect on the game or the basic mechanics of the gameplay. It's based on the behaviour and commentary of the individuals in question. You continue to ignore this, despite the fact that it's been pointed out dozens of times in this thread. So, no one in your example above is being labeled based upon a condition with which they were born. And pretty much the namecalling disappears when the behaviour does.

And personally, I like nerds.... I'd label most of the population who plays this game, myself included as a nerd. That part wasn't actually a slam lol.

But my point stands... you see me as an outsider for no reason other than gender. It's obviously not for my opinion, since alot more than 4 out of 100 people on this thread are of the same opinion.

So your arguments still don't hold water, no matter how you try to legitimize them, the Stephenson quote still stands.


Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#559 - 2013-06-13 19:54:26 UTC
Shedemei Silfar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
The term "outsider". Why are we outsiders, exactly? Why do you SEE us as outsiders?


I already said as much, numbers. Within the community of the game, 4 in 100 means you are pretty much the definition of an outsider in the context of that social setting.

Quote:
Here's the thing.... Unless these nerds have been on mars for the last 10 years, they are probably commonly in situations where they interact with women at least on some level.


Given the propensity of just a small amount of people on this thread, who will happily call such people; "nerds" "neckbeards" "cavemen", "racists" "misogynists" "dorks" "losers" "morons" "retards", I'd have to say I understand if they're hesitant to step into that arena, yeah. Mean words aren't exactly only used by one side. HTFU applies equally, of course.


That depends on how you're defining the population. I really don't see myself as one of the "4 out of 100". I see myself as one of the 75 out of 100 who are here to play the game, and one of the 10 out of 100 who will speak up when someone steps really obviously way outta line.. not just with a bit of banter, but with malicious intent. I don't consider myself an outsider.

As far as the name calling, yup you're right... except for one minor thing.
These names are not based on the race, gender, sexual preference, etc. of the individual - i.e. things that have no effect on the game or the basic mechanics of the gameplay. It's based on the behaviour and commentary of the individuals in question. You continue to ignore this, despite the fact that it's been pointed out dozens of times in this thread. So, no one in your example above is being labeled based upon a condition with which they were born. And pretty much the namecalling disappears when the behaviour does.

And personally, I like nerds.... I'd label most of the population who plays this game, myself included as a nerd. That part wasn't actually a slam lol.

But my point stands... you see me as an outsider for no reason other than gender. It's obviously not for my opinion, since alot more than 4 out of 100 people on this thread are of the same opinion.

So your arguments still don't hold water, no matter how you try to legitimize them, the Stephenson quote still stands.




Basically...he is the outsider here.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#560 - 2013-06-13 19:56:12 UTC
Quote:
As far as the name calling, yup you're right... except for one minor thing.
These names are not based on the race, gender, sexual preference, etc. of the individual - i.e. things that have no effect on the game or the basic mechanics of the gameplay. It's based on the behaviour and commentary of the individuals in question.


So, hating isn't hating, but the kind of hating on someone, and from what it stems, makes it acceptable?

I wonder how "neckbeard" and "cavemen" apply because of how someone behaves...

Quote:
And personally, I like nerds.... I'd label most of the population who plays this game, myself included as a nerd. That part wasn't actually a slam


It might not have been meant as a slam, but some people might take it as one. And because they're offended by that, doesn't that make you in the wrong, by your own definitions?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.