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[Odyssey] Faction Navy Frigates

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Lugalzagezi666
#381 - 2013-05-20 18:06:05 UTC
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang wrote:
CCP HATES AMARR. Point


How long it took till retribution or coercer got its 2nd mid? So we can just "whine" for couple more years and slicer will for sure get its 3rd mid. And if you faction fit it, you will even have enough cpu to fit something in that midslot. Maybe.
Lol
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#382 - 2013-05-23 08:01:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Garresh
Someone suggested switching the firetail's tracking bonus to a falloff bonus. That is a *terrible* idea. It needs that tracking bonus, as it often moves too fast for it's own guns otherwise. Even when under webs.

Edit: Actually let me rephrase. It's not that it's a terrible idea. It would open up Dramiel-esque firetail fittigns and make it one of the best scram kiters in the game. However, it's extremely close in style to the rifter, and the removal of tracking for falloff would shift it away from that. It would no longer be able to go for close range fighting and attempting to get under enemy guns, as it often moves too fast for it's own good.

Simply put, it would feel like an entirely different ship if it got a falloff bonus.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#383 - 2013-05-28 16:48:41 UTC
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
How long it took till retribution or coercer got its 2nd mid?

And in the process of giving them a second mid, they ruined one of the best lines in the game: "There's no point in flying the coercer/retribution."
Lugalzagezi666
#384 - 2013-05-29 08:37:18 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
How long it took till retribution or coercer got its 2nd mid?

And in the process of giving them a second mid, they ruined one of the best lines in the game: "There's no point in flying the coercer/retribution."

And I thought it was : "Bring a buddy to tackle for you."
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#385 - 2013-05-29 14:47:24 UTC
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
How long it took till retribution or coercer got its 2nd mid?

And in the process of giving them a second mid, they ruined one of the best lines in the game: "There's no point in flying the coercer/retribution."

And I thought it was : "Bring a buddy to tackle for you."



Personally I loved the coercer with 4 lows. Now I never fly it.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Ristlin Wakefield
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#386 - 2013-05-29 14:49:53 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
How long it took till retribution or coercer got its 2nd mid?

And in the process of giving them a second mid, they ruined one of the best lines in the game: "There's no point in flying the coercer/retribution."

And I thought it was : "Bring a buddy to tackle for you."



Personally I loved the coercer with 4 lows. Now I never fly it.


Yeah I rarely put a point on it anyway. Just a tracking computer or SEBO : /

I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#387 - 2013-05-29 15:44:01 UTC
I tried warning you all about the restrictions (read: pointlessness) of adding that midslot to the Coercer, almost immediately after CCP/CSM voiced their desire to do so .. it is worse of with 3 lows, period. If that mid absolutely had to be added it should have come from the high rack ... but alas, idiocy prevailed leaving us a cripple (albeit more heavily armed) *sigh*.

Dragoon has some nifty options though, just sad to see the honorable Coercer left eating the scraps from the table Sad

And to pre-empt moderation - On topic: Gief more midzzz to Slicer!!!111 (ie. move utility to mid).
Lugalzagezi666
#388 - 2013-05-30 08:58:37 UTC
Ristlin Wakefield wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Personally I loved the coercer with 4 lows. Now I never fly it.

Yeah I rarely put a point on it anyway. Just a tracking computer or SEBO : /

Thats weird, because I found bricking myself and dropping mwd for point quite often. Otherwise there was really low chance to kill anything except noobs (t1 frigs) or fools (honor tanked inties).

Anyway, I never flown it again. By the time it got 2 mids I trained minmatar... and then there really isnt point of flying one even if it has point.Ugh

On topic :
Slicer absolutely needs +1 mid to stay competitive - its not like suddenly people will stop flying td condors or damp hookbills and slicer will rule the universe.
And as many said, utility high is useless on slicer.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#389 - 2013-05-30 09:57:23 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Utility high on a RANGE focused ship is indeed not extremely helpful. That one could be very well moved. Or add antoher turret and reduce a bit the damage bonus to not get overpowered


Nope it is. Put in an offlined salvager and you can overheat your guns significantly longer.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#390 - 2013-05-30 10:41:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Veshta Yoshida
Meditril wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Utility high on a RANGE focused ship is indeed not extremely helpful. That one could be very well moved. Or add antoher turret and reduce a bit the damage bonus to not get overpowered


Nope it is. Put in an offlined salvager and you can overheat your guns significantly longer.

Why waste ISK on a salvager, CCP changed the sink mechanic to apply with empty slots a while back if i recall .. you put the old in school Smile

Besides, the benefit of a sink is not that pronounced when you have maxed thermodynamics and only two guns, you'd lose 15-20s or so at most without the sink slot and if you have to heat that much (2+ minutes) then you have already lost (read: too big a mouthful).
Rita Jita
Caldari Provisions
#391 - 2013-05-30 23:30:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Rita Jita
must say i'm worried,

with the nerfs being made to the tracking enhancers, this will literally cripple the slicer.

when running snakes implants the tracking is already bad, only thing that saves it is being able to gain range to allow the turrets to track.

reductions in range for the TE will kill the slicer.
IMO it needs a buff to the optimal to compensate.

not to mention its already the slowest kite ship around

Founder of the "Haulers Channel"

Come Check It Out
Samas Sarum
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#392 - 2013-05-31 00:18:31 UTC
Rita Jita wrote:
must say i'm worried,

with the nerfs being made to the tracking enhancers, this will literally cripple the slicer.

when running snakes implants the tracking is already bad, only thing that saves it is being able to gain range to allow the turrets to track.

reductions in both tracking and range for the TE will kill the slicer.
IMO it needs a buff to the optimal to compensate.

not to mention its already the slowest kite ship around


The tracking portion of the TE is staying the same is it not? Only the optimal/falloff bonus is being nerfed.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#393 - 2013-05-31 05:54:36 UTC
Tracking component is staying as is just the range bonus getting changed AFAIK.

But tbh the changes will mean a grant total of jack squat to any of my slicer fits. I'll still fly it and it wil perform in exactly the same tbh

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Rita Jita
Caldari Provisions
#394 - 2013-05-31 09:03:47 UTC
my point was that it won't track properly since the range will be reduced, transverse will increase due to this fact

Founder of the "Haulers Channel"

Come Check It Out
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
Doomheim
#395 - 2013-06-01 10:07:19 UTC
Okay.
CCP really did it. They killed the slicer.
The rebalancing stuff in inferno was great. Retribution was okay.
Rebalancing in Oddyssey: Catastrophe.
We will soon see a big comet and firetail overkill.
Btw: Rebalancing of navy cruisers is a catastrophe too.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#396 - 2013-06-03 17:26:43 UTC
Rita Jita wrote:

with the nerfs being made to the tracking enhancers, this will literally cripple the slicer.
locus coordinator rigs are great for extending range (same range increase as old tracking enhancers)
killorbekilled TBE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#397 - 2013-06-03 21:48:29 UTC
Un-gimp the fire tail's damage by replacing the launcher hard point and replacing with a turret hard point and make it a shiney rifter

:)
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#398 - 2013-06-04 01:18:03 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Tracking component is staying as is just the range bonus getting changed AFAIK.

But tbh the changes will mean a grant total of jack squat to any of my slicer fits. I'll still fly it and it wil perform in exactly the same tbh


Really? I found the change quite beneficial in optimizing a good fit.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#399 - 2013-06-04 11:15:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Iyacia Cyric'ai
Only buff that was really needed here was the increased targeting range for the slicer and the firetail buff. Navy faction frigs are pretty healthy in their pre-odyssey state. People asking for buffs (other than the firetail buffs) are just baddies that don't know how to fly these ships.

The only concern I have is whether combat interceptors will compete against these ships when they get their buff. While the crow is easily more built for kiting as opposed to the hookbill, the line between the taranis and the comet are far more blurry.

Crusader IMO should have better tank and maybe an extra mid to allow dual prop brawling (rather than get buffed into a t2 slicer). Not sure how to deal with the claw though...

Edit: Also while I don't agree with the TE nerf, it won't affect slicers if you're fitting them right.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#400 - 2013-06-04 13:03:44 UTC
The uber buff of firetail and comet WILL hurt.
Try some fits.
Standard fits of firetails with scramweb td ab, 160dps, 8.5k ehp will eat blaster corms^^
That is not balancing. That is winmagallatar.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.