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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Minmatar First post First post
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Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#1181 - 2013-05-17 17:36:49 UTC | Edited by: Kagura Nikon

CCP Rise wrote:

Hi guys

We're making a couple small changes for the Tempest and the Typhoon, I'm telling you about them!

For the Tempest, when we said it was going to be Minmatar's second attack ship instead of combat, we moved the stats to somewhere inbetween for some reason. So now I'm going to finish the job.

Tempest:

127 Max velocity (+7)

.119 Agility (-.001)

6800 Shield hp (-200)

7000 Amor hp (-300)

This means the Tempest will still have more base hitpoints than it does currently on TQ, and it will also have slightly above average hp for an attack battleship, which we feel is warranted by being a little weaker in some other respects. In trade, it now goes much faster. With one nano and no implants or links, it goes 1251m/sec. It will feel a lot like a sort of 'heavy battlecruiser' for many purposes. I hope this direction is fun and rewarding and makes the ship stand out.

For the Typhoon, we are making smaller changes.

6 Turret slots (+1)

100600000 mass, (-3000000)

It didn't make a lot of sense to have 5 turrets and 6 launchers, especially when the Navy version is 6/6. The mass change is minor but it brings the mass a little closer to its attack BS bretheren.

Thanks for the feedback!

You just keep makign the same mistake! The tempest is still LESS damage, LEss tank (due to wrse slot layout), LEss drones, Larger, more massive than typhoon.

The hange to agility is JOKE.. Almsot INSULTING to the community!

Tempest is completely and utterly outclassed by the typhoon ( and megatron and Hyperion for the matter).

It needs to weight LESS than the typhoon! Look athte face of those 2 things and tell me how in hell the typhoon can be lighter!!! The tempest is moslty made of SAILS!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

Citeregis 604
Pattern Clarc Citeregis Likes received: 604	#1182 - 2013-05-17 17:56:37 UTC 5 Funnily enough, the New new Tempest is still the least agile, and almost the slowest attack ship of the lot. GG Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction

Drunken Bum

Likes received: 432

#1183 - 2013-05-17 17:59:18 UTC

Pattern Clarc wrote:

Funnily enough, the New new Tempest is still the least agile, and almost the slowest attack ship of the lot.

GG

Nothing screams minmatar like slow as hell right? Wait...

After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary. -Fozzie

Suliux

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 10

#1184 - 2013-05-17 17:59:26 UTC

Kagura Nikon wrote:

...

You just keep makign the same mistake! The tempest is still LESS damage, LEss tank (due to wrse slot layout), LEss drones, Larger, more massive than typhoon.

The hange to agility is JOKE.. Almsot INSULTING to the community!

Tempest is completely and utterly outclassed by the typhoon ( and megatron and Hyperion for the matter).

It needs to weight LESS than the typhoon! Look athte face of those 2 things and tell me how in hell the typhoon can be lighter!!! The tempest is moslty made of SAILS!!

+1000 - couldn't agree more. Why do we need to completely change it's role/function when it was essentially the original (dare I say only) attack battleship before any and all of this attack vs combat roles stuff even started.

Altimo

Kitchen Sink Kapitals

Likes received: 70

#1185 - 2013-05-17 18:01:25 UTC | Edited by: Altimo

CCP Rise:

Most of us here have requested a better slot layout either +1 to low or +1 to mid, and a 7.5% ROF bonus, or a fall off bonus, if you could give us those things combined with the speed changes, then we might be able to see the tempest be given a role that it can stand out in. Right now even with this change it's far from standing out.

Why haven't you looked at changing it in that direction? Just curious.

Rebecha Pucontis

Doomheim

Likes received: 602

#1186 - 2013-05-17 18:03:07 UTC

Kagura Nikon wrote:

You just keep makign the same mistake! The tempest is still LESS damage, LEss tank (due to wrse slot layout), LEss drones, Larger, more massive than typhoon.

This is the part I am little skeptical about. I was going to do some testing but haven't got round to it. The Tempest should have greater EHP as it lacks in the other areas, but as you say, the slot layout could prohibit this. Do you have any evidence to back this up? I'm going to play around with EFT later this evening and will confirm later myself as have to admit, I'm a little skeptical about Rise's claim that the Tempest can achieve greater EHP than all the other attacks BS's.

Rebecha Pucontis

Doomheim

Likes received: 602

#1187 - 2013-05-17 18:08:14 UTC

Altimo wrote:

Most of us here have requested a better slot layout either +1 to low or +1 to mid, and a 7.5% ROF bonus, or a fall off bonus, if you could give us those things combined with the speed changes, then we might be able to see the tempest be given a role that it can stand out in. Right now even with this change it's far from standing out.

It is clear from how minor the changes where that Rise obviously regards the Tempest as balanced right now. Everyone knew that it was going to get a speed and agility boost, so practically it has had no changes.

The other option is Rise may be waiting to see the statistics after odyssey expansion has been released to see what changes are needed, if so then it will be a long wait.

Would be nice to hear what Rise's opinion is on any future possible changes to the Tempest.

Suliux

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 10

#1188 - 2013-05-17 18:17:32 UTC

Rebecha Pucontis wrote:

The other option is Rise may be waiting to see the statistics after odyssey expansion has been released to see what changes are needed, if so then it will be a long wait.

Would be nice to hear what Rise's opinion is on any future possible changes to the Tempest.

Like with the Stabber - we'll get +25mbit drone buff down the road which will fix it - right?

Pattern Clarc

Citeregis

Likes received: 604

#1189 - 2013-05-17 18:18:30 UTC | Edited by: Pattern Clarc

Just checking with 1v of the original stats:
The Tempest going from combat to attack...
-0.4 seconds align time
-1000 Shields
-800 Armour
-300 Hull
+7m/s

A maximum of 900 turret dps at 3km (vs 900 cruise missile dps out to 100km on the phoon)

+500 more armour HP vs a megathron that has +2 more low slots.

wtfisthissh!t?.jpg

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction

Pattern Clarc

Citeregis

Likes received: 604

#1190 - 2013-05-17 18:19:38 UTC

Suliux wrote:

Rebecha Pucontis wrote:

Like with the Stabber - we'll get +25mbit drone buff down the road which will fix it - right?

He was too busy telling everyone not to panic a few days ago. Lol

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction

Jonas Sukarala

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 309

#1191 - 2013-05-17 18:24:27 UTC | Edited by: Jonas Sukarala

Pattern Clarc wrote:

Just checking with 1v of the original stats:
The Tempest going from combat to attack...
-0.4 seconds align time
-1000 Shields
-800 Armour
-300 Hull
+7m/s

A maximum of 900 turret dps at 3km (vs 900 cruise missile dps out to 100km on the phoon)
+500 more armour HP vs a megathron that has +2 more low slots.
wtfisthissh!t?.jpg

its odd that both of the minmatar ships are meant to be attack and yet are the heaviest in their class....
Apoc
-97100000kg

Mega
-98400000kg

Phoon
-100600000kg

Tempest
-101050000kg

And The Apoc really shouldn't be the lightest they should be closer to the Machariels 95mil kg

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change? ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Rebecha Pucontis

Doomheim

Likes received: 602

#1192 - 2013-05-17 18:35:51 UTC | Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis

Pattern Clarc wrote:

Suliux wrote:

Rebecha Pucontis wrote:

Like with the Stabber - we'll get +25mbit drone buff down the road which will fix it - right?

He was too busy telling everyone not to panic a few days ago. Lol

I'm not panicking. Changes are pretty much what I expected to be honest form CCP Rise. I don't see the Tempest to be as unusable as you view it yourself, and so will continue to use it even in its current state in the knowledge it will probably get a few extra tweaks in the future. Most of what I've predicted so far in this thread has come true. I did think there may be a slight possibility of improving the dps before odyssey though, but not really surprised that it hasn't happened given all the other ships he his balancing at that moment.

Plus the 25mb drone buff on the stabber is not really a very good example if your trying to instill fear regarding CCP's ability to reiterate ships, as that is a really nice buff to the stabber.

Altimo

Kitchen Sink Kapitals

Likes received: 70

#1193 - 2013-05-17 19:02:20 UTC

Rebecha Pucontis wrote:

Pattern Clarc wrote:

Suliux wrote:

Rebecha Pucontis wrote:

Like with the Stabber - we'll get +25mbit drone buff down the road which will fix it - right?

He was too busy telling everyone not to panic a few days ago. Lol

Lets be serious, for aslong as the tempest has been in the game, it has always been considered sub par, not since the projectile buff in 2009 did it start getting some attention again, but still filling a rather minor role, that became even more minor since the tornado came out. Will it take another 10 years for the tempest actually be placed into a role? Nano-battleships did exist at one point, but now they're just... not so good.

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#1194 - 2013-05-17 19:41:12 UTC

Rebecha Pucontis wrote:

Kagura Nikon wrote:

You just keep makign the same mistake! The tempest is still LESS damage, LEss tank (due to wrse slot layout), LEss drones, Larger, more massive than typhoon.

If you fit same number of damage mods and use rest to tank Typhoon pass ahead EHP wise.

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#1195 - 2013-05-17 19:43:20 UTC

Jonas Sukarala wrote:

Pattern Clarc wrote:

Just checking with 1v of the original stats:
The Tempest going from combat to attack...
-0.4 seconds align time
-1000 Shields
-800 Armour
-300 Hull
+7m/s

A maximum of 900 turret dps at 3km (vs 900 cruise missile dps out to 100km on the phoon)
+500 more armour HP vs a megathron that has +2 more low slots.
wtfisthissh!t?.jpg

THIS . As long as this STUPIDITY.. i will repeat STUPIDITY of makign minmatar heavier than other races continues, you can recpackage all that RAINBOW AND FANTASY IDEA OF larger Hurricane!!!

Change the tempest COMPLETELY to a proper HIGH damage ship as the 2 bonuses suggest.. or give us a REAL minmatar ship. Make the tempes the LIGHEST!!!!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

Zarnak Wulf

Task Force 641

Empyrean Edict

Likes received: 1,855

#1196 - 2013-05-17 20:00:01 UTC

Sigh. What is the expectation? Shield Tempest in the Cane style? If you slap a MWD on a BS - it takes at least three cycles to get up to speed. The capacitor will only tolerate a minute and forty seconds with it on. When it takes close to 30 seconds to get up to speed - this isn't something you can pulse. If you need to go further then 50km and you don't have a cap booster - you're sunk. The Hurricane can pull it off because it has a jumbo sized capacitor to run cruiser modules. The Tempest doesn't get that perk. So again- what is the expectation?

Mids:
MWD
Cap booster
LSE
Adaptive or second LSE
Point

Insert hysterical laughing here. Roll

Jonas Sukarala

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 309

#1197 - 2013-05-17 20:03:07 UTC

Zarnak Wulf wrote:

Thus another issue is fixing MWD's on battleships...

Alek Row

Silent Step

Likes received: 58

#1198 - 2013-05-17 20:13:04 UTC

Rebecha Pucontis wrote:

Plus the 25mb drone buff on the stabber is not really a very good example if your trying to instill fear regarding CCP's ability to reiterate ships, as that is a really nice buff to the stabber.

Disagree.
Maybe the Rifter is a better example then? 1 pg and 50 amor after what 1 year?
For a ship that according to them, they had awesome ideas, where are they?

Stabber, one of the entry level cruisers, needs 3 weapon systems to be able to do significant dps, and it's an ATTACK cruiser right? They did 2 things right with the Stabber, it looks gorgeous, and it's a fun ship to fly around, why? because of his speed and not being a brick. Very low dps, very low tank, but fast and fun, it would be great if would be fast and furious like some ships of old, but fast and fun will have to be enough for the time being..

I think they are being too cautious, they are afraid of the combination of speed with everything else. Minmatar ships are too fast? Make them the heaviest, cut their balls, make them so heavy that they have to use nanos. There should be a balance in here somewhere but there isn't at the moment.

They will do their changes, and then they will wait until the meta to settle. Only problem is that the meta never settles in here. So changes will not be fast, and when they are faster than usual, it's 1 pg, 100 armor, or, well... drones.

Thanks for the Tempest update anyway. It's 7m per sec more fun than the previous one, and that's it.

Deacon Abox

Black Eagle5

Likes received: 551

#1199 - 2013-05-17 20:48:02 UTC

Kagura Nikon wrote:

CCP Rise wrote:

127 Max velocity (+7)

.119 Agility (-.001)

6800 Shield hp (-200)

7000 Amor hp (-300)

6 Turret slots (+1)

100600000 mass, (-3000000)

Which is why the Tempest should really be a shield tanker. Wingy bits don't say armor tanking. So the slot assignment should also be rethought with the Tempest. The absurdly microscopic change to the agility is indeed a joke. Why they bothered I don't know.

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Rebecha Pucontis

Doomheim

Likes received: 602

#1200 - 2013-05-17 20:50:32 UTC

Alek Row wrote:

They will do their changes, and then they will wait until the meta to settle. Only problem is that the meta never settles in here. So changes will not be fast, and when they are faster than usual, it's 1 pg, 100 armor, or, well... drones.

Yes, the rifter buff was kind of a joke. I'd agree they were being a little too cautious on that one. At least the firetail is looking good.

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