Player Features and Ideas Discussion

More to do with the gun than the ship but so true.

The thing being, the Tach has a purpose. It's a Beam weapon with more range than the Pulse, hits in larger bursts and requires more capacitor to do it. Making it scrazy stupid hard to fit doesn't reflect that role. It just makes the gun useless and as such the role unplayable.

They also work on Paladin and Nightmare but I doubt there are many Tach fit Paladin and Nightmares out there.

" If a ship can’t sustain the fire of its own guns under burner then there is an issue from my perspective."

So, yes, they are asking for the Abaddon to be cap stable. And I will agree that needing 2 rigs to fire the guns for any decent length of time would be frustrating, and as I've said multiple times I recognize that the Abaddon has capacitor issues. But making the Abaddon cap stable with MWD running is completely ridiculous. Offer it the ability to fire the guns at around ~35% cap stability (before MWD drawback) and wouldn't that be good enough? Give it a scaled up capability comparable to the Maller/Thorax you brought up. Would that be enough for you (alongside the upcoming energy buffs?)



Trying to figure out what everyone's problem with Amarr battleships is, obviously. Every thread has a bunch of people complaining that ____ race of battleships is horrid and needs god buffed. The hybrid weapon buff did a LOT of good to blasters (a lot of people said it wasn't going to change anything) and there are Energy Turret buffs in the works. A 10% cap reduction for pulse and 20% for beams, plus the beam powergrid reduction is something that I personally saw as a nice thing. Suddenly the Apocalypse could fit Tachyons a heckuva lot easier (by extension the Abaddon can as well) and the cap reduction helped ease the pains of the Apoc's bonus switch. The Abaddon sees a lot of use currently and was probably the most common Amarr Battleship on TQ, at least as far as I know.

I just see it a little bit as "give an inch, take a mile" like what's going on with the Dominix in the Gallente thread. People (myself included) are requesting a change to the optimal/tracking bonus since it mostly applies to sentries but they're also inventing slightly ridiculous "fixes" for it, up to and including giving it +1 drone per level. It doesn't NEED a buff like that, it just needs some minor tweaking. I only see the Abaddon as needing minor tweaking, not a complete overhaul.

Or pulse are better for the job to do with these ships ? What is more likely ?

PS : and no, they are not easy to fit on the Oracle.

In this game, popularity heavily reflects strength. Especially because the community at large math-hammers out things to the umpteenth degree.

If they were worth using, they'd be used.



So, I'm supposed to do L4's under the assumption that I have to train up a Guardian alt? Hell no. No ship should be built around remote cap transfer being assumed.

I, and multiple other people here, aren't arguing for "stable under mwd", I just want to be able to actually use and fit my own weapons without a 4-6 slot tax just to fit and fire them. It's absurd. I pose this question to as many people as I can find.

Why is it ok that one race, and one race only, has a 4-6 slot tax to fit and fire their guns? Are any ships in the Amarr lineup so ludicrously OP that it justifies this?

Have you even flown a neuting ship? It is obvious you never have, so please don't talk about things you don't know.

I spent about five minutes trying to neut a carrier, and I still didn't run out of cap booster charges. Hell, I probably didn't even dent the stock in the hold.

Okay, so your "current Tier 3" doesn't run L4 missions that well? Too bad, neither does the Gallente "tier 3". In fact it couldn't PvP that well either. Although Tiercide did the Hyperion glorious wonders (heck it might even be able to mission now since it can fit dual reps with a full rack of 425mm Railguns post-Odyssey).

If I'm doing my math right, the Post-Odyssey Abaddon will be getting a >1min bonus to firing with the same DPS as before with the upcoming laser buffs. Or, essentially it is nearly losing the cap draw of one turret. It's still not quite what you're looking for, but it's a start, and a lot better than nothing. As I asked earlier, what if the Abaddon's cap regen was just increased slightly to reflect a natural scale from its younger brother the Maller?


Did you seriously just suggest an 8 laser capable, full damage bonused drones (even threw the mining yield in there for the lulz, huh? Cuz Domi doesn't get it), with the option of 6 launchers? I'm sorry but this proposal does the Dominix an even greater disservice than the proposed Armageddon does.

That geddon would have 50 pg and one med slot left with that fitting.

It is funny that the thread is already about how to nerf tachs so hard that it is justified to fit them on every hull again.

Tachyons are a incredible good extra option for amarr, they produce up to 1100 DPS at 47@42km while having a better tracking compared to rail/arti setups. The turret is a additional option over beams, if you have the slots for RCU IIs or a hull that is balanced around them.

The reason they are not common outside the Oracle in pvp is that NM\Palas are bricks with massive sigs(also quite expensive ones), the Abaddon would lose to many slots(meaning EHP, DPS range as a trade-off) and the Apoc nearly got the same damage with puls and a lot better tracking, thx to the combination of optimal bonus and scorch at useful ranges.

However they are very common in pve and if you happen to go into Incursion, you will see hole fleets of tach paladins and nightmares.

Yeah, our old tier 3 doesn't run L4s well. And now, neither do any of our Battleships. The Hyperion can in fact, mission like a boss now, with the changes it got.

Let's think about it though. Caldari have pve options (Raven for the freaking win). Minmatar does too. (in fact, their entire ship lineup can reasonably run L4s.) Gallente do too. (Hyperion, arguably the Mega as well now)

But. L4s involve shooting at a LOT of rats, for a while at a time. Incursions do too. Yeah, the laser changes help some. But they all still have a 5 minute battle timer just based on their guns. (in a lot of cases, that number is *with* cap boosters) God help them if they want to rep or prop in any way.

And the Geddon isn't even an option. Not with unbonused missiles, and not with neuts, and not with the drones it has. Because since the AI change, they will shoot your drones, and laugh at you while you run back to go get more. Sure, I'm happy we get an all-powerful-against-smaller-ships gang ship, yeah. But it seems like each and every change to the Amarr BS lineup was done viewed with nullsec colored goggles. Not everyone can lug a Guardian around.

As to your idea to improve the Amarr BS's cap regen overall, (Abaddon in particular), I entirely agree. There should be at the very least *some* superiority in cap use from the race that literally shoots cap at their foes.

I'm a little confused as to the idea that the Geddon can't mission? I missioned L4s in a Dominix effortlessly, and continue to do so now in my Rattlesnake. I prefer the Rattlesnake for ridiculous shield buffer and torps over Railguns on the Dominix. The only issue with it is drone aggro, but if you have proper drone skills and know what you're doing your drones are pretty much safe.

Especially if you're using sentries, since they'll draw aggro but you can just pull one in at a time and redeploy. Works like a charm. So you can't say the Amarr don't have a L4 option. You can say you don't LIKE the L4 option, but it's there and it works. Though it would be nice to have a gunboat option as well, and it is my personal belief that the Apocalypse fits the role for L4 boat better than the Abaddon. Might just be me, but I'd take the ranged DPS over the tank.

I said it many times too : you CAN do lvl4 missions with all amarr BS. It may not be as effective as a Raven or the future Hyperion, but you CAN do it. And I'm actually sure about this, because amarr BS was my first lvl4 BS, and I didn't had proper skills to do them, but I still manage to do them. So either I'm very doog (I'm sceptical about this), or amarr BS do lvl4 missions very easily.

As I said, all races work against their inherent drawbacks : capacitor for amarr, tracking and short range for railguns gallente and caldari, tracking and low dps for arties, etc.