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What does the Phantasm even do?

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Bluetippedflyer
Fallen Rabbits
#281 - 2013-05-15 18:15:05 UTC
when are pirate ships getting upgraded?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#282 - 2013-05-15 18:28:23 UTC
Not any time soon according to CCP Rise in the Navy BS thread. I'm guessing Winter or next Spring.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Gealbhan
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#283 - 2013-05-15 21:03:53 UTC
Ah the glory days of the Phantasm, good times, I used to own one but not anymore for obvious reasons.
Anyura
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#284 - 2013-05-16 12:20:22 UTC
He might be slow. He might be ineffective. He will always have a special place both my hanger and my heart.

*hugs Phantasm* <3
Violet Winters
I HAVE THE POWER OF GOD AND ANIME ON MY SIDE
Blue Eyes and Exodia Toon Duelist Kingdom Duelers
#285 - 2013-05-30 21:37:58 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:


My suggestion:
- Turn the role bonus into a resist bonus
- Move a high to a mid (MWD, Cap Booster, Disruptor, 2x Web)
- 5 unbonused turret slots (let them focus on that web bonus if they want, or let them sacrifice DPS for neuting power)
- Slightly increase the neut bonus to account for moved high (otherwise it's still inferior to the Legion)
- Build in a LCB or two
- Fill out the drone bay with 25 bw/50 bay

Other options include:
- Almost Cap free neuts (yes, really)
- Role fitting bonus for heavy neuts (increase neut range)
- Refocusing the ship away from lasers wholesale

Anyway, gotta run. o/

-Liang


That looks... pretty nice actually, but making it basically but cap free bonuses wouldn't be upvoted much by CCP, and the heavy nuet bonus would just complicate things.

The drone bay on the Ashimmu is a joke, that needs to be improved...


CEO - Anglic Eclipse.
Darvaleth Sigma
Imperial Security Hegemony
#286 - 2013-05-30 23:15:35 UTC
Anyura wrote:
He might be slow. He might be ineffective. He will always have a special place both my hanger and my heart.

*hugs Phantasm* <3


I think your heart now has a place on the Phantasm, considering you just hugged it...

Give a man a match and you warm him for a day.

Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life!
Joyce Antura
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#287 - 2013-08-15 19:35:56 UTC
I feel like the amarr recon ships could be a nice indicator of where to go with blood raider and sansha ships. Certainly sansha ships capacitor and mobility should be looked at, as turning on an invuln puts you at 1/2 cap :3. I like the idea of the pilgrim/curse keeping the dual TD/neut hull bonuses, while the blood raiders go full neut bonuses and maybe the sansha ships get a TD bonus (fits with the npc aggravation you find in the wild). Could also look at giving it a leviathan-like bonus with shield HP (similar to armor hp on the augoror navy issue) which could push it more into the role of a shield/lazor brawler.

Just thoughts; might do some evehq theorycrafting later to see how it could work.
Ekhss Nihilo
Dominion.
DECOY
#288 - 2013-08-15 21:28:55 UTC
Glathull wrote:
Part of the fix needs to include the ability to mount corpses on the spikes.

Since I tend to name my ships after H.P. Lovecraft entities, this appeals to my sensibilities.

+1

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius (AD 121-180)
Domer Pyle
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#289 - 2013-08-15 21:55:43 UTC
wow, what a necro, lol.

buff the phantasm! it's a cool little ship.

"Imagine if the bars to your prison were all you had ever known. Then one day, someone appears and unlocks the door. If they have the power to do this, then are they really the liberator? You never remembered who it was that closed you in." - Ior Labron
Gnoshia
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#290 - 2013-08-15 22:44:05 UTC
Kristoffon vonDrake wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.

    • Oh no don't you dare touch the Cyna and the Mach.

    The Mach is the only ship battlecruiser or bigger a person can go soloing inside hostile territory and have a fighting chance to get out of blobs. DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH IT.

    The Cynabal is still a 260M cruiser. IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD. KEEP YOUR DIRTY HANDS OFF IT. IT HAS CRAP DPS ALREADY WHEN KITING. If the other ships suck in comparison it's their problem.


    Nope.

    They need hefty nerfs.
    Gnoshia
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #291 - 2013-08-15 23:10:05 UTC
    Diesel47 wrote:
    Gypsio III wrote:


    I think the combination of damage projection and mobility is a bit much, I'd look at reducing its falloff.


    And the vindicator is arguably the best brawler in the game. So what?


    If you are worried about something being unbalanced, whine about tier 3 BC, they are too fast and project too much damage too far.






    This.

    I personally feel that T3 BC should only use medium guns. Those BS sized guns on BC is stupid.
    Fronkfurter McSheebleton
    Horse Feathers
    CAStabouts
    #292 - 2013-08-16 04:22:05 UTC
    Gnoshia wrote:

    This.

    I personally feel that T3 BC should only use medium guns. Those BS sized guns on BC is stupid.


    That's actually a traditional IRL BC role, though...so it kinda makes sense. Ingame they die when something sneezes at them, so there's that....

    thhief ghabmoef
    Quontor Zarrkos
    Island Monkeys
    #293 - 2013-08-18 10:39:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Quontor Zarrkos
    I like the sansha ships as they are right now in terms of direction. They fit oversized guns due to their 100% damage bonus which give them incredible dps when you add the per level bonus and gives them the ability to fit neuts in their empty high slots. What I don't like about them is how ccp gives most ships similar capacitors, some a little bit smaller, some a little bit bigger. I think the sansha ships should receive a big buff to their capacitors so you can use all those capacitor heavy modules without completely gimping the fit. Also, I don't like neut bonuses becoming mainstream, it used to be reserved to blood raider ships and amarr recons and I like it that way, but maybe others have a different opinion about that. Another statement against neut bonuses on sansha ships is that there will be no distinction with the blood raider ones! They already share the marauder-like dps bonus...

    The cynabal has almost double the speed of the phantasm, which is fine in my opinion, but then the phantasm could have like double the normal capacitor amount for a cruiser, or some other special feat which makes it useful. If ccp decides to nerf the speed on the cynabal then it loses its number 1 reason to use the ship, it would be more fun if they made both the cynabal and the phantasm valid choices for small gang.
    Trinkets friend
    Sudden Buggery
    Sending Thots And Players
    #294 - 2013-08-19 04:49:03 UTC
    The Cynabal has a bit of competition with the Scythe Fleet now, but its tracking and speed and drone bay are just too good - but if the hull loses a little agility and PG so you can't fit a full rack of 720's with a tank and no fitting mods, then it might come back to earth. it will still be good, it just won't be ridiculous.

    The Vigilant is fine as it is. Maybe a smidge more speed would help it catch things, but any more DPS is superfluous and tanking it up more is very dangerous for dread blapping effectiveness.

    The Gila, also, is fine now DDA's and ASB's exist. Prior to that it was just a buffer and Ogres one trick pony, now you have plenty of latitude to fit and create killdozers.

    The Ashimmu could use a bit of love. You can make it as good as a neut Legion, but it ends up more expensive. The only real buff to the Shmu recently has been T2 plates. overall, minor tweaks to cap use and laser damage will really bring this ship back to wide use. Likewise, any fiddling with the Legion's cap warfare sub will impact on the sensibility of going the Shmu instead.

    That leaves the Phantasm. Since the Navy Cruiser rebalance, is quite subpar, and swiftly heading to utterly useless given HACs are being rebalanced to give them MWD sig benefits. Even with pimp and a LASB it is just too slow to kite and tank and the cap use, yeah, well...good luck.

    The idea of TD bonusing the Phantasm isn't bad, but it will really only come into its own if it swings to an AHAC configuration and you can sig tank, TD and web down your foes (which you cannot do with a shield cruiser). This would require stripping mids and adding lows, or just adding 2 lows. It would be a Curse with more DPS and no neuting - not entirely a bad niche role.

    Making it into a BLOPs-like cloaky camping cruiser has some merit, but not much. The ability of black ops to jump about the joint and set up in belts without having to traverse a gate gives them the ability to move without being spotted. Unless the Phantasm can likewise covert jump it will have to traverse gates, risking destruction or blowing intel. There's a compelling advantage to no targeting delay upon decloaking but you'd just end up with a cruiser that camps FW medium plexes to get tackle on farmers..and if the current recons aren't used much for this, the Phantasm won't be either.

    The other way to look at this is to give them cyno calibration 5 without covops cloaks, and let them use BLOPs bridges even though they don't cloak. This would provide a way of pouring DPS through a bridge without going stupid on ISK or risk (T3's, BLOPs themselves).

    Regarding the discussion about weapon bonuses as a whole, there's some good ideas there. I think that with the HAC changes to the MWD sig for the Zealot, a Phantasm with a 100% hull bonus to lazor gank, cap use 10% per level, and tracking 10% per level would be viable as a place to be; the Zealot gets less inbound DPS and can motor about the field being flashy; the Phantasm gets pure gank, good tracking (shield resists?), and reduces its capacitor problems somewhat. You use the NOmen or Zealot to kite, navy Augoror for tanks and gank, and the Phantasm for outright gank.

    ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
    Diesel47
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #295 - 2013-08-19 21:43:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
    Trinkets friend wrote:
    The Cynabal has a bit of competition with the Scythe Fleet now, but its tracking and speed and drone bay are just too good - but if the hull loses a little agility and PG so you can't fit a full rack of 720's with a tank and no fitting mods, then it might come back to earth. it will still be good, it just won't be ridiculous.

    The Vigilant is fine as it is. Maybe a smidge more speed would help it catch things, but any more DPS is superfluous and tanking it up more is very dangerous for dread blapping effectiveness.

    The Gila, also, is fine now DDA's and ASB's exist. Prior to that it was just a buffer and Ogres one trick pony, now you have plenty of latitude to fit and create killdozers.

    The Ashimmu could use a bit of love. You can make it as good as a neut Legion, but it ends up more expensive. The only real buff to the Shmu recently has been T2 plates. overall, minor tweaks to cap use and laser damage will really bring this ship back to wide use. Likewise, any fiddling with the Legion's cap warfare sub will impact on the sensibility of going the Shmu instead.

    That leaves the Phantasm. Since the Navy Cruiser rebalance, is quite subpar, and swiftly heading to utterly useless given HACs are being rebalanced to give them MWD sig benefits. Even with pimp and a LASB it is just too slow to kite and tank and the cap use, yeah, well...good luck.

    The idea of TD bonusing the Phantasm isn't bad, but it will really only come into its own if it swings to an AHAC configuration and you can sig tank, TD and web down your foes (which you cannot do with a shield cruiser). This would require stripping mids and adding lows, or just adding 2 lows. It would be a Curse with more DPS and no neuting - not entirely a bad niche role.

    Making it into a BLOPs-like cloaky camping cruiser has some merit, but not much. The ability of black ops to jump about the joint and set up in belts without having to traverse a gate gives them the ability to move without being spotted. Unless the Phantasm can likewise covert jump it will have to traverse gates, risking destruction or blowing intel. There's a compelling advantage to no targeting delay upon decloaking but you'd just end up with a cruiser that camps FW medium plexes to get tackle on farmers..and if the current recons aren't used much for this, the Phantasm won't be either.

    The other way to look at this is to give them cyno calibration 5 without covops cloaks, and let them use BLOPs bridges even though they don't cloak. This would provide a way of pouring DPS through a bridge without going stupid on ISK or risk (T3's, BLOPs themselves).

    Regarding the discussion about weapon bonuses as a whole, there's some good ideas there. I think that with the HAC changes to the MWD sig for the Zealot, a Phantasm with a 100% hull bonus to lazor gank, cap use 10% per level, and tracking 10% per level would be viable as a place to be; the Zealot gets less inbound DPS and can motor about the field being flashy; the Phantasm gets pure gank, good tracking (shield resists?), and reduces its capacitor problems somewhat. You use the NOmen or Zealot to kite, navy Augoror for tanks and gank, and the Phantasm for outright gank.



    The cynabal suggestions are a bad idea.

    There needs to be a ship that can fit 720mms and a tank. That is not a problem, don't see why you are making it one. I've flown one cynabal and have stopped due to the cost of the ship. But the ship does great job at its role.

    Other ships need to perform their role correctly, like the cynabal. Not gimp every ship to make them equal. That is bad balancing.
    Kristoffon Ellecon
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #296 - 2013-08-20 02:27:17 UTC
    Trinkets friend wrote:
    poop


    Sir you are most unintelligent in your suggestions.

    While the Cynabal may have been godlike in times past, today with the fleet scythe and navy omen being the kiting cruisers of choice and the talos and other attack bcs also being nearly as good, it is hardly "op" anymore. Its agility and powergrid, and small speed edge, are the only thing worth the 200m price tag. If you want to nerf it then you are a fool, because at that point you might as well remove it from the game because nobody would pay 200m to fly what would be nothing else but a glorified scythe fleet issue.

    "The Ashimmu could use a bit of love."

    "A bit" of love you say? I rest my case.
    Speedkermit Damo
    Republic University
    Minmatar Republic
    #297 - 2013-08-28 13:55:28 UTC
    The problem facing the majority of the pirate ships, and also the HACs, is that there are more ships in the game, than there are roles for them to fill.

    It's a shame as these pirate ships are amongst the best looking ships in EVE, yet the majority of them are so bad I have still never seen most of them.

    Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
    Ersahi Kir
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #298 - 2013-09-09 01:52:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ersahi Kir
    wrong forum
    Sentenced 1989
    #299 - 2013-09-09 14:22:42 UTC
    Goldiiee wrote:
    RE, Machariel:

    As a dual training is required for this ship it takes twice as long to perfect the bonuses for these ships. I dont think they are in need of a nerf so much as split the bonuses to each faction, IE, set turret bonuses for Minmitar, and Tank or capacitor bonuses for Gallente (or Vice Versa). In order to fly the ships effectively you would need both factions trained to 5 (Similar to the Scimitar/Basi).

    With an investment of 100 days for spaceship command alone, an additional 200 days to get the guns right, 120 days for the drones, then add the core tank and core capacitor skills for another 235 days. It takes almost 2 years of focused training to fly this ship to it's full potential.

    Of course there are always a few people that fly ships they have no buisness in, with skills always trained to the minimum then whine about subpar performance.


    Not to mention Machariel is the only one with 7 guns and that's a nice ISK sink if you are using faction ammo compared to rest of them.

    The Incursion Guild

    Epic Arc Guide
    VanKenMar
    Beach Boys
    The Minions.
    #300 - 2013-09-30 08:12:09 UTC
    Any news about Phantasm in Rubicon? I didnt notice any informations of it.