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[Odyssey] Navy Battleships

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Violet Winters
I HAVE THE POWER OF GOD AND ANIME ON MY SIDE
Blue Eyes and Exodia Toon Duelist Kingdom Duelers
#81 - 2013-05-13 17:41:11 UTC
so when does my mach get nerfed into the ground?

CEO - Anglic Eclipse.
Hrontore BOA
State War Academy
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-05-13 17:42:22 UTC
Guh. I want a special teir three battleship. ;.; just so I have a shiny, shiny rokh that is ready to be harvested for tears.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#83 - 2013-05-13 17:42:58 UTC
5 lows on scorp navy????
I have a scorp navy toon. WHAT THE HELL SHOULD I DO WITH A 5th LOW????
4th ballistic control system will give me maybe 40 or 50 dp. Almost useless^^

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#84 - 2013-05-13 17:44:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
Kasutra wrote:
Has anyone run the math yet on whether we're seeing more or less applied DPS from the new CNR when firing at some standard targets?


after some deriving i have managed to come up with the following:

7*1.25=8.75

8.75>8

:3

the explosion radius bit should make up for it though, since it matters not the velocity of the target with explosion radius, its only their sig radius to begin with.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#85 - 2013-05-13 17:44:56 UTC
Kasutra wrote:
Has anyone run the math yet on whether we're seeing more or less applied DPS from the new CNR when firing at some standard targets?


You'll get a bit more if you fit cruise, quite a bit less if you fit torps. They're straight up pigeon holing the ship into cruise and then keeping the missile velocity bonus.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-05-13 17:46:57 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Dez Affinity wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Quote:
GALLENTE

MEGATHRON NAVY ISSUE
The Navy Thron will be Gallente’s ‘attack’ battleship, and therefore will adjust in many of the same ways that the tech 1 Megathron did, including the switch from damage bonus to rate of fire.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
+10% Large Hybrid Turret falloff

Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 8L; 7 turrets, 1 launchers(-1)
Fittings: 16275 PWG, 630 CPU(+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 9000(-316) / 9500(-461) / 10500(-750)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 6000 (+375) / 1150s(-4.875s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130(+10) / .105 (-.005) / 98400000(-6800000) / 15.01s(-1.84s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 175
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 25 Magnetometric Sensor Strength (-1.25)
Signature radius: 385(-15)


i bolded the part that needs to be fixed... tracking bonus for the tech I version is ok... but gal need a fleet ship and a mega navy issue can be that fleet ship... and the only way to make it so it to give it a fall off bonus... that will bring large neutrons with null into fleet bs range...

otherwise you are just making a pretty station game ship...


Lol, please never post in balancing threads ever again


sorry cant help you out there... falloff is much better then the tracking for fleets...

tracking is nice if you dont have proper tackle but the fall off = more range which is needed for a fleet ship....

and you should know that.


You're just plain wrong.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#87 - 2013-05-13 17:47:35 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Kasutra wrote:
Has anyone run the math yet on whether we're seeing more or less applied DPS from the new CNR when firing at some standard targets?


after some deriving i have managed to come up with the following:

6*1.25=7.5

8>7.5

:3



Your math is bad.

Old CCNR: 7 / .75 = 9.3333 eff launcher
New CCNR: 8 * 1.3 = 10.4 eff launcher

Old TCNR: 7 / .75 = 9.333 eff launcher
New TCNR: 8 eff launcher

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#88 - 2013-05-13 17:49:19 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Quote:
GALLENTE

MEGATHRON NAVY ISSUE
The Navy Thron will be Gallente’s ‘attack’ battleship, and therefore will adjust in many of the same ways that the tech 1 Megathron did, including the switch from damage bonus to rate of fire.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
+10% Large Hybrid Turret falloff

Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 8L; 7 turrets, 1 launchers(-1)
Fittings: 16275 PWG, 630 CPU(+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 9000(-316) / 9500(-461) / 10500(-750)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 6000 (+375) / 1150s(-4.875s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130(+10) / .105 (-.005) / 98400000(-6800000) / 15.01s(-1.84s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 175
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 25 Magnetometric Sensor Strength (-1.25)
Signature radius: 385(-15)


i bolded the part that needs to be fixed... tracking bonus for the tech I version is ok... but gal need a fleet ship and a mega navy issue can be that fleet ship... and the only way to make it so it to give it a fall off bonus... that will bring large neutrons with null into fleet bs range...

otherwise you are just making a pretty station game ship...


Nah that would make a nice kronos bonus maybe marauders could become a HAC version of battleships... make them smaller and more mobile with MWD bonus and projection bonuses we could have an assault line from frigs to battleships.


i would support this aslong as teh sensors were fixed.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Luscius Uta
#89 - 2013-05-13 17:49:23 UTC
I don't like the Fleet Phoon (unlike the regular one) - split weapon systems are bad and should go the way of Dodo.
Also, since Navy Geddon won't be a drone boat, why give it such huge drone bay?

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Vadeim Rizen
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2013-05-13 17:52:41 UTC
Kil2 you hurt me. You hurt my feelings very much. Why nerf the megathron? I didnt understand the nerf for the T1 version, and now I dont understand the need for nerfing the faction version. Were megathrons abused/overused/overpowered? None of the above.

In my opinion the battleship re-balancing has been so disappointing. Battleships still serve no real purpose in this game. There is no reason to fly any of these ships at the moment. If you want to make Battleships serve a role give them more HP. It's a bit dumb that armor t3's have just as much armor hp as battleships. In my humble opinion, if you want to see a return in battleships you need to add 50% hp to the ships main tank. With the ship's size and maneuverability it should have way more base HP than any other class of sub-caps. The resists will still make tech II and tech III stuff more viable, and with the lack of resists BS still won't be overpowered, they'll be more in line with where they should be. Instead, we're taking away hp?

But atleast at that point going heavy would have a benefit, as opposed to being completely vulnerable to a nano gang. The benefit to being in a bs fleet at that point is it would be much harder to be alpha'd, but with the lack of resists there's still a benefit to t2 and t3 fleets. But as it is, and as it's going to be there is still no benefit to flying battleships.
Hlynurth
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#91 - 2013-05-13 17:53:01 UTC
man nano phoons are going to own, boosh gallente pls :3
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#92 - 2013-05-13 17:53:55 UTC
Dez Affinity wrote:

You're just plain wrong.


sigh...

ok mr legion... how will you guys make a cat version of the navy mega?

in the end the rokh is still a better option for rails and blasters... and costs less

so really i cant see a fleet concept for the new mega...

as it stands i will continue using it for what its used now... station games... thats it.

the napoc is killer so is the scorp... plus that phoon just looks smexy...

but again gal are left out with out a fleet ship...

or are you again just going to reply with one line...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Cultural Enrichment
Jenkem Puffing Association
#93 - 2013-05-13 17:54:09 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Kasutra wrote:
Has anyone run the math yet on whether we're seeing more or less applied DPS from the new CNR when firing at some standard targets?


after some deriving i have managed to come up with the following:

6*1.25=7.5

8>7.5

:3



Your math is bad.

Old CCNR: 7 / .75 = 9.3333 eff launcher
New CCNR: 8 * 1.3 = 10.4 eff launcher

Old TCNR: 7 / .75 = 9.333 eff launcher
New TCNR: 8 eff launcher

-Liang

This is some really dumb theorycrafting. All ships able to fit cruise will get that 30% bonus, not just the CNR.

If anything, torps are getting the better end of this damage application boost, since it will apply to targets between the size of a torp's optimal and a cruise optimal
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#94 - 2013-05-13 17:55:38 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Kasutra wrote:
Has anyone run the math yet on whether we're seeing more or less applied DPS from the new CNR when firing at some standard targets?


You'll get a bit more if you fit cruise, quite a bit less if you fit torps. They're straight up pigeon holing the ship into cruise and then keeping the missile velocity bonus.

-Liang

Thanks.

Would just have liked the post, but I don't think that's appropriate here. Lol
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2013-05-13 17:59:54 UTC
IrJosy wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
The idea with the Tempest is that it fits really well into a lot of armor based compositions, acting more or less like an armor Maelstrom. It still has higher alpha than the Typhoon, with a lot more hp and similar utility. It goes a lot faster than the other combat battleships and has much smaller sig, so it definitely isn't eclipsed completely.

I can understand why some of you might want something with a bit more pop and I promise to talk with Fozzie and the rest of the department to make sure we're happy with this form before Odyssey goes out.



Ok ok, Just try to remember that navy ships are used by peopel trying to get an edge therefore they must have somethign goign for them. WHen you undock on a fleet tempest you wil have a plan ( Fleet doctrines in 0.0 are not included in taht, 0.0 combat became so stupid and mindless that I do not even dare to brign it up in this discussion).


More alpha then typhoon is not a reason to use it. If you want alpha you will go maelstrom, if you want mobility you go typhoon. Being A little bit bad at EVERYTHING is not a role. No one will select a combat ship based on that!


It must be GOOD at something. That is IMPORTANT! 2 damage bonus ship, it shows its supposed to be a gangy ship. Bring its turrets to 7 and lower drone bay a bit.. Or keep turrets and increase drone bay. Give a reason for anyoen select a tempst over some other ship in some realistic scenario.


It is good at something. Best armor alpha ship. Stop trying to meta game against goons.


For god sake.. you think anyone here care for your pitiful alliance? I am a high sec mercenary.. not a pathetic 0.0 drone.


Its nto the best alpha ship. it still ahve less alpha than maelstrom. It is the Highest alpha to HP ratio. But that is somethign that is BARELY useful and only to a fraction of a group that so stupdly rich that they can use fleet ships as throwaway toys.


I am talking about balancing for REAL PLAYERS that can use their brain and not only follow what a FC says thm to do.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#96 - 2013-05-13 18:00:05 UTC
Cultural Enrichment wrote:

This is some really dumb theorycrafting. All ships able to fit cruise will get that 30% bonus, not just the CNR.

If anything, torps are getting the better end of this damage application boost, since it will apply to targets between the size of a torp's optimal and a cruise optimal


I wasn't trying to comment on the cruise boost as applied to all ships. I was answering the request for a comparison of today's CCNR and tomorrow's CCNR. I'm kinda curious about your justification for believing that the new Torp CNR will outdamage the old one. It loses 1.333 eff launchers and utility slots. It's... it's just straight up worse.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#97 - 2013-05-13 18:02:21 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Dez Affinity wrote:

You're just plain wrong.


sigh...

ok mr legion... how will you guys make a cat version of the navy mega?

in the end the rokh is still a better option for rails and blasters... and costs less

so really i cant see a fleet concept for the new mega...

as it stands i will continue using it for what its used now... station games... thats it.

the napoc is killer so is the scorp... plus that phoon just looks smexy...

but again gal are left out with out a fleet ship...

or are you again just going to reply with one line...


Firstly you don't understand how important the tracking bonus is.

Secondly you want to give the navy mega A FALLOFF bonus. It is a hybrid ship. Falloff bonus. Hybrid ship. It will get max 15km increase (without tes and tracking computers) from a 50 percent fall off bonus with 425mms. That is dog shi t. With 2 TCs its more like 25km. Awful. From a 50 percent bonus.
Kellath Eladrel
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2013-05-13 18:06:17 UTC
Thank you for the fleet phoon. It has a lot of possibilities.

There is something unique and useful (however niche) about split weapons systems, no matter what people say. Especially when they are allowed to have the full benefit of ship bonuses, as opposed to before.

Five card stud, nothing wild, and the sky's the limit.
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#99 - 2013-05-13 18:08:18 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
The idea with the Tempest is that it fits really well into a lot of armor based compositions, acting more or less like an armor Maelstrom. It still has higher alpha than the Typhoon, with a lot more hp and similar utility. It goes a lot faster than the other combat battleships and has much smaller sig, so it definitely isn't eclipsed completely.

I can understand why some of you might want something with a bit more pop and I promise to talk with Fozzie and the rest of the department to make sure we're happy with this form before Odyssey goes out.


Thanks for trying to keep at least one armor centric projectile battleship. I just hope that you find something to make it pop as you say sooner rather than later.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#100 - 2013-05-13 18:10:18 UTC
I am pleased with this overall, but I am still disappointed with the gallente rebalance. Other than that, the scorpion navy and raven navy changes are very nice. I see what you did there with the navy geddon. :3