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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Minmatar

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Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#841 - 2013-04-26 01:05:03 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:

As for the drones...it's a bit ridiculous for a non gallente/amarr, non-drone-bonused ship to have a full compliment of heavies. Minmatar don't use drones as a secondary weapon system, and as the Phoon now has a single primary weapon system to focus on, rather than 2-3. Keeping the full 125 just wouldn't make sense. That said, it's not like they've dropped it down to 50/75. 100mb is still respectable.

Although I don't see anything wrong with giving one of the Minmatar ships 125mb bw myself, I can understand the point that it doesn't fit perfectly with racial characteristics. But a lot of people would be perfectly happy with 100mb if the drone bay was expanded to something more substantial. The point is though it would give the Typhoon greater versatility in terms of its drones seeing as it is losing them in terms of its lost turret bonus and high slots. It is personal preference though as on paper the Typhoon looks very powerful right now.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#842 - 2013-04-26 01:05:29 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
I'm starting to lose you now here.
http://i.imgur.com/7XWwUIM.jpg
** Those are with the new stats/slot layout balance changes (note the word NEW next to the ship name) etc - the megathron is at the bottom, it's faster, has the higher agility, more (well, almost exactly the same) ehp when a similar number of tanking modules is used. AND you keep on saying a tempest can hit further out, when I've shown this to be a meaningless statement because.
1) EVEN with 5 turrets, 425mm's will out damage 6 autocannons outside of web range using any ammo, with 7 turrets vs 6, it's almost no contest at any range, with any ammo, when you consider the megathon has 2 extra low slots for damage mods.


Playing around in EFT with the Mega and Tempest, my initial and somewhat cursory glance over the possibilities seems to indicate that the Tempest has much better damage application at a longer range with the autos (around 25km), and dps is around the same as the Mega which must operate at a much closer range. Where the mega wins out though is on having around 30k ehp extra than the Tempest, so it seems your trading range for tank.

Also one note is the Mega is far easier to fit, CPU is limited when trying to fit torps on the Tempest, and generally seems a bit low overall.



Again.. wil try to be simple on exaplanation. When you include drones. MEga out dps temepst up to 20 km.... then temepst outdpe mega from 20-to 25 km.. there.. a rail mega start to outdps temepst again... So....

No temepst do not have a much better damage application. It has a NARROW zone .. VERY NARROW

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#843 - 2013-04-26 01:20:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Again.. wil try to be simple on exaplanation. When you include drones. MEga out dps temepst up to 20 km.... then temepst outdpe mega from 20-to 25 km.. there.. a rail mega start to outdps temepst again... So....

No temepst do not have a much better damage application. It has a NARROW zone .. VERY NARROW


I'm pretty much agreeing Tempest is looking far less desirable than the mega currently. It does definitely apply damage better at range, but perhaps it should be doing this even better. Also fitting the Tempest is not easy compared to the Mega.

One thing when you start to look at rails damage for the mega drops quite a bit, a lot below autocannon levels, and tracking is over 3x worse than autos, so Tempest still wins in that area in my opinion by far.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#844 - 2013-04-26 03:26:27 UTC
Take a look at the stats of the new pest and Mega, while the mega is slightly more agile it has a lower base tank than the pest which means at least one of the extra lows would need support the tank. The only reason the Mega has a higher ehp in that fit is because of thr higher hull amount on it than the pest, and it's already a CPU starved fit or else it would have a dcu II, did you even bother trying to stretch the tank as much as possible instead of making bad fits for two different ships (and no, it would only be a personal attack if I insulted you for doing so). And the pest is getting a pg buff which makes fitting arty much easier, which people already did. Also the pest will be harder to hit because of it's low sig radius which makes a big difference in 1v1 scenarios, it'll be hard to apply it's dps if it can't hit you. Their dpses will also become more closer due to the double damage bonus on the pest, you can eft warrior all you want but next time try getting fits people will actually use and account for upcoming changes.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#845 - 2013-04-26 07:18:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Pattern Clarc
Drake Doe wrote:
Take a look at the stats of the new pest and Mega, while the mega is slightly more agile it has a lower base tank than the pest which means at least one of the extra lows would need support the tank. The only reason the Mega has a higher ehp in that fit is because of thr higher hull amount on it than the pest, and it's already a CPU starved fit or else it would have a dcu II, did you even bother trying to stretch the tank as much as possible instead of making bad fits for two different ships (and no, it would only be a personal attack if I insulted you for doing so). And the pest is getting a pg buff which makes fitting arty much easier, which people already did. Also the pest will be harder to hit because of it's low sig radius which makes a big difference in 1v1 scenarios, it'll be hard to apply it's dps if it can't hit you. Their dpses will also become more closer due to the double damage bonus on the pest, you can eft warrior all you want but next time try getting fits people will actually use and account for upcoming changes.

I guess you're starting to clutch at straws when your hypothetical 1v1 scenario assumes that the slower ship would be able to build up enough enough transversal to make it's 5-6% signature radius advantage matter against a ship with a 50% tracking advantage. Or when you say structure HP doesn't matter in 1v1 scenarios (lol)

The +500 powergrid the tempest received IS INCLUDED IN THIS BUILD OF ETF - so quit complaining that i'm missing out the secret factor that is deliberately making the Tempest appeared underpowered. Sure, with 2 damage mods, a 6 turret tempest does slightly more dps than a 5 turret 2 damage mod megathron in dps at point blank range - and so what? These are terrible, unrealistic builds - the point of them wasn't to show you how in 1v1 unicorn land, one would win against the other - it was to provide an objective basis to compare the supposed *strengths* of one ship in context of other battleships. Even Rebecha Pucontis is starting to rub the wool out of her eyes in this regard.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#846 - 2013-04-26 08:43:49 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Edited Post.


That looks more decent. Still....I believe 7.5% would be a better idea, considering the power of falloff bonus.

I don't think they will give falloff bonus to tempest though.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#847 - 2013-04-26 09:54:43 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Again.. wil try to be simple on exaplanation. When you include drones. MEga out dps temepst up to 20 km.... then temepst outdpe mega from 20-to 25 km.. there.. a rail mega start to outdps temepst again... So....

No temepst do not have a much better damage application. It has a NARROW zone .. VERY NARROW


I'm pretty much agreeing Tempest is looking far less desirable than the mega currently. It does definitely apply damage better at range, but perhaps it should be doing this even better. Also fitting the Tempest is not easy compared to the Mega.

One thing when you start to look at rails damage for the mega drops quite a bit, a lot below autocannon levels, and tracking is over 3x worse than autos, so Tempest still wins in that area in my opinion by far.



At 40+ Km rails on a mega ( bonuses) track well enough to hit BC very reliably. If you are fighting somethign even smaller.. is very unlikely that at that distance its a huge threat to you.

PEopel whine on rails a lot, but they fail to realzie how rails are much easier to fit thn other long range weapons and can be used to dominate a zone of range that is what people usually credit to AC (wrongly)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#848 - 2013-04-26 09:55:46 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Take a look at the stats of the new pest and Mega, while the mega is slightly more agile it has a lower base tank than the pest which means at least one of the extra lows would need support the tank. The only reason the Mega has a higher ehp in that fit is because of thr higher hull amount on it than the pest, and it's already a CPU starved fit or else it would have a dcu II, did you even bother trying to stretch the tank as much as possible instead of making bad fits for two different ships (and no, it would only be a personal attack if I insulted you for doing so). And the pest is getting a pg buff which makes fitting arty much easier, which people already did. Also the pest will be harder to hit because of it's low sig radius which makes a big difference in 1v1 scenarios, it'll be hard to apply it's dps if it can't hit you. Their dpses will also become more closer due to the double damage bonus on the pest, you can eft warrior all you want but next time try getting fits people will actually use and account for upcoming changes.



No it doe snot have a lower base tank. MEga got much more HP on the structure. the same spread that minamtar and gallente always had. And no structure HP are nto useless. because they are guanranteed to be 60% resistance.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#849 - 2013-04-26 10:21:34 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:

As for the drones...it's a bit ridiculous for a non gallente/amarr, non-drone-bonused ship to have a full compliment of heavies. Minmatar don't use drones as a secondary weapon system, and as the Phoon now has a single primary weapon system to focus on, rather than 2-3. Keeping the full 125 just wouldn't make sense. That said, it's not like they've dropped it down to 50/75. 100mb is still respectable.


Yeah - @ Fronkfurter McSheebleton - you said, "a bit ridiculous for a non gallente/amarr" - you are talking about racial strengths? So why then does the Gallente attack battleship have smaller sig, better agility and more speed than the Minmatar attack Battleship , (which I thought were Minmatar racial strengths). If that gets sorted then fine take away our drones - otherwise racial traits don't really exist anymore and the argument is moot.

This is a game. At the end of the day having Drones on the Typhoon was fun. You play games to have fun. This just sucks.

After reading through all of this and the other Odessey/Tiericide threads recently. . . I'm starting to think there are two distinct threads going on. I try to stay up-beat. But Tiericide seems to be tending to make all the ships very similar - seems to be making all the racial differences more subtle or removing them.

I am terrified of what's going to happen to the RF Typhoon.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#850 - 2013-04-26 11:34:20 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Take a look at the stats of the new pest and Mega, while the mega is slightly more agile it has a lower base tank than the pest which means at least one of the extra lows would need support the tank. The only reason the Mega has a higher ehp in that fit is because of thr higher hull amount on it than the pest, and it's already a CPU starved fit or else it would have a dcu II, did you even bother trying to stretch the tank as much as possible instead of making bad fits for two different ships (and no, it would only be a personal attack if I insulted you for doing so). And the pest is getting a pg buff which makes fitting arty much easier, which people already did. Also the pest will be harder to hit because of it's low sig radius which makes a big difference in 1v1 scenarios, it'll be hard to apply it's dps if it can't hit you. Their dpses will also become more closer due to the double damage bonus on the pest, you can eft warrior all you want but next time try getting fits people will actually use and account for upcoming changes.



No it doe snot have a lower base tank. MEga got much more HP on the structure. the same spread that minamtar and gallente always had. And no structure HP are nto useless. because they are guanranteed to be 60% resistance.

Yes it is, because it's actual tank can get much higher than 60% resist.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#851 - 2013-04-26 11:39:07 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Take a look at the stats of the new pest and Mega, while the mega is slightly more agile it has a lower base tank than the pest which means at least one of the extra lows would need support the tank. The only reason the Mega has a higher ehp in that fit is because of thr higher hull amount on it than the pest, and it's already a CPU starved fit or else it would have a dcu II, did you even bother trying to stretch the tank as much as possible instead of making bad fits for two different ships (and no, it would only be a personal attack if I insulted you for doing so). And the pest is getting a pg buff which makes fitting arty much easier, which people already did. Also the pest will be harder to hit because of it's low sig radius which makes a big difference in 1v1 scenarios, it'll be hard to apply it's dps if it can't hit you. Their dpses will also become more closer due to the double damage bonus on the pest, you can eft warrior all you want but next time try getting fits people will actually use and account for upcoming changes.



No it doe snot have a lower base tank. MEga got much more HP on the structure. the same spread that minamtar and gallente always had. And no structure HP are nto useless. because they are guanranteed to be 60% resistance.

Yes it is, because it's actual tank can get much higher than 60% resist.



Not common although. Most common setups will have a ex hole quite lower than 60% resist. So at the end its balanced. Mega has a better tank when you can afford only 2-3.. modules for tank . while tempest gets a bit stronger if you use 5 modules for tank. With 4 modules is about even

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#852 - 2013-04-26 11:41:59 UTC
Claire Raynor wrote:
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:

As for the drones...it's a bit ridiculous for a non gallente/amarr, non-drone-bonused ship to have a full compliment of heavies. Minmatar don't use drones as a secondary weapon system, and as the Phoon now has a single primary weapon system to focus on, rather than 2-3. Keeping the full 125 just wouldn't make sense. That said, it's not like they've dropped it down to 50/75. 100mb is still respectable.


Yeah - @ Fronkfurter McSheebleton - you said, "a bit ridiculous for a non gallente/amarr" - you are talking about racial strengths? So why then does the Gallente attack battleship have smaller sig, better agility and more speed than the Minmatar attack Battleship , (which I thought were Minmatar racial strengths). If that gets sorted then fine take away our drones - otherwise racial traits don't really exist anymore and the argument is moot.

This is a game. At the end of the day having Drones on the Typhoon was fun. You play games to have fun. This just sucks.

After reading through all of this and the other Odessey/Tiericide threads recently. . . I'm starting to think there are two distinct threads going on. I try to stay up-beat. But Tiericide seems to be tending to make all the ships very similar - seems to be making all the racial differences more subtle or removing them.

I am terrified of what's going to happen to the RF Typhoon.

That wasn't the point though, even though the tempest has more base armor and shields which is the reason it is slightly less agile, it still has a lower sig than the mega. But why wouldn't the main races that use a weapon not use as many as a race that doesn't. It's like switching the tempest to a hybrid platform, which would be fun using your logic?

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#853 - 2013-04-26 11:46:32 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Take a look at the stats of the new pest and Mega, while the mega is slightly more agile it has a lower base tank than the pest which means at least one of the extra lows would need support the tank. The only reason the Mega has a higher ehp in that fit is because of thr higher hull amount on it than the pest, and it's already a CPU starved fit or else it would have a dcu II, did you even bother trying to stretch the tank as much as possible instead of making bad fits for two different ships (and no, it would only be a personal attack if I insulted you for doing so). And the pest is getting a pg buff which makes fitting arty much easier, which people already did. Also the pest will be harder to hit because of it's low sig radius which makes a big difference in 1v1 scenarios, it'll be hard to apply it's dps if it can't hit you. Their dpses will also become more closer due to the double damage bonus on the pest, you can eft warrior all you want but next time try getting fits people will actually use and account for upcoming changes.



No it doe snot have a lower base tank. MEga got much more HP on the structure. the same spread that minamtar and gallente always had. And no structure HP are nto useless. because they are guanranteed to be 60% resistance.

Yes it is, because it's actual tank can get much higher than 60% resist.



Not common although. Most common setups will have a ex hole quite lower than 60% resist. So at the end its balanced. Mega has a better tank when you can afford only 2-3.. modules for tank . while tempest gets a bit stronger if you use 5 modules for tank. With 4 modules is about even

In most common setups, however that isn't always the case since that explosive hole can easily be filled by EANMs with proper skills. Yes it can tank well when comparing total ehp, but without it's higher amount of low slots it would need rigs to tank as much as the pest can without rigs in armor.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#854 - 2013-04-26 11:50:10 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Take a look at the stats of the new pest and Mega, while the mega is slightly more agile it has a lower base tank than the pest which means at least one of the extra lows would need support the tank. The only reason the Mega has a higher ehp in that fit is because of thr higher hull amount on it than the pest, and it's already a CPU starved fit or else it would have a dcu II, did you even bother trying to stretch the tank as much as possible instead of making bad fits for two different ships (and no, it would only be a personal attack if I insulted you for doing so). And the pest is getting a pg buff which makes fitting arty much easier, which people already did. Also the pest will be harder to hit because of it's low sig radius which makes a big difference in 1v1 scenarios, it'll be hard to apply it's dps if it can't hit you. Their dpses will also become more closer due to the double damage bonus on the pest, you can eft warrior all you want but next time try getting fits people will actually use and account for upcoming changes.



No it doe snot have a lower base tank. MEga got much more HP on the structure. the same spread that minamtar and gallente always had. And no structure HP are nto useless. because they are guanranteed to be 60% resistance.

Yes it is, because it's actual tank can get much higher than 60% resist.



Not common although. Most common setups will have a ex hole quite lower than 60% resist. So at the end its balanced. Mega has a better tank when you can afford only 2-3.. modules for tank . while tempest gets a bit stronger if you use 5 modules for tank. With 4 modules is about even

In most common setups, however that isn't always the case since that explosive hole can easily be filled by EANMs with proper skills. Yes it can tank well when comparing total ehp, but without it's higher amount of low slots it would need rigs to tank as much as the pest can without rigs in armor.



You are being very stuck in the world of ideas there.

Fact is. EHP of a megatron with 3 slot tank is > EHP tempest with 3 slot tanks. Tempest EHP with 5 slot tank > mega EHP With 4 Slot tank is about same.

That is simple FACT. Now stop spewing nonsense. That is the standard deviation of HP between minmatar and gallente. Gallente have more hull and a bit less Hp on the main layer. That is the same ratio that current mega and tempest have (today on TQ)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#855 - 2013-04-26 11:53:21 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Take a look at the stats of the new pest and Mega, while the mega is slightly more agile it has a lower base tank than the pest which means at least one of the extra lows would need support the tank. The only reason the Mega has a higher ehp in that fit is because of thr higher hull amount on it than the pest, and it's already a CPU starved fit or else it would have a dcu II, did you even bother trying to stretch the tank as much as possible instead of making bad fits for two different ships (and no, it would only be a personal attack if I insulted you for doing so). And the pest is getting a pg buff which makes fitting arty much easier, which people already did. Also the pest will be harder to hit because of it's low sig radius which makes a big difference in 1v1 scenarios, it'll be hard to apply it's dps if it can't hit you. Their dpses will also become more closer due to the double damage bonus on the pest, you can eft warrior all you want but next time try getting fits people will actually use and account for upcoming changes.

I guess you're starting to clutch at straws when your hypothetical 1v1 scenario assumes that the slower ship would be able to build up enough enough transversal to make it's 5-6% signature radius advantage matter against a ship with a 50% tracking advantage. Or when you say structure HP doesn't matter in 1v1 scenarios (lol)

The +500 powergrid the tempest received IS INCLUDED IN THIS BUILD OF ETF - so quit complaining that i'm missing out the secret factor that is deliberately making the Tempest appeared underpowered. Sure, with 2 damage mods, a 6 turret tempest does slightly more dps than a 5 turret 2 damage mod megathron in dps at point blank range - and so what? These are terrible, unrealistic builds - the point of them wasn't to show you how in 1v1 unicorn land, one would win against the other - it was to provide an objective basis to compare the supposed *strengths* of one ship in context of other battleships. Even Rebecha Pucontis is starting to rub the wool out of her eyes in this regard.


So you admit you built them like an idiot to point out their flaws? The only reason you make ir seem under powered is because you're using **** fits, I know that positively for the Mega however I usually see at least one gyro on tempest builds. Every point you've been trying to make has been centered on these unrealistic builds, how can you properly show their strengths when you're not using a fit anyone would actually use?

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#856 - 2013-04-26 12:01:01 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Take a look at the stats of the new pest and Mega, while the mega is slightly more agile it has a lower base tank than the pest which means at least one of the extra lows would need support the tank. The only reason the Mega has a higher ehp in that fit is because of thr higher hull amount on it than the pest, and it's already a CPU starved fit or else it would have a dcu II, did you even bother trying to stretch the tank as much as possible instead of making bad fits for two different ships (and no, it would only be a personal attack if I insulted you for doing so). And the pest is getting a pg buff which makes fitting arty much easier, which people already did. Also the pest will be harder to hit because of it's low sig radius which makes a big difference in 1v1 scenarios, it'll be hard to apply it's dps if it can't hit you. Their dpses will also become more closer due to the double damage bonus on the pest, you can eft warrior all you want but next time try getting fits people will actually use and account for upcoming changes.



No it doe snot have a lower base tank. MEga got much more HP on the structure. the same spread that minamtar and gallente always had. And no structure HP are nto useless. because they are guanranteed to be 60% resistance.

Yes it is, because it's actual tank can get much higher than 60% resist.



Not common although. Most common setups will have a ex hole quite lower than 60% resist. So at the end its balanced. Mega has a better tank when you can afford only 2-3.. modules for tank . while tempest gets a bit stronger if you use 5 modules for tank. With 4 modules is about even

In most common setups, however that isn't always the case since that explosive hole can easily be filled by EANMs with proper skills. Yes it can tank well when comparing total ehp, but without it's higher amount of low slots it would need rigs to tank as much as the pest can without rigs in armor.



You are being very stuck in the world of ideas there.

Fact is. EHP of a megatron with 3 slot tank is > EHP tempest with 3 slot tanks. Tempest EHP with 5 slot tank > mega EHP With 4 Slot tank is about same.

That is simple FACT. Now stop spewing nonsense. That is the standard deviation of HP between minmatar and gallente. Gallente have more hull and a bit less Hp on the main layer. That is the same ratio that current mega and tempest have (today on TQ)[/quote]

You're using the ehp to compare it and you're calling me stuck in a world of ideas? Fact is, the mega can get much higher resist s than 60%, and once difference in armor hp is eaten away it won't tank as much as the tempest would still be able to. And did I say there was something wrong with that ratio? No, I just think it justifies the slightly higher speed.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#857 - 2013-04-26 12:03:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Tempest Hp without ANY module 21100 Mega 20300 . 800 difference.

GIven that DC II pushes resistance so easily to 60% resistance. And that is more than the average resistance of armro when you have EANM and DC.. this is a VERY close HP pool. Remember that haklf of the tempest advantage is in a layer that it will NOT be tanked with resist improvments.

That means the difference effectively is much smaller. Just fit the ships and check. Fact is. go to test server and check.. mega murders tempest completely and inexorably now.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#858 - 2013-04-26 12:10:35 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Tempest Hp without ANY module 21100 Mega 20300 . 800 difference.

GIven that DC II pushes resistance so easily to 60% resistance. And that is more than the average resistance of armro when you have EANM and DC.. this is a VERY close HP pool. Remember that haklf of the tempest advantage is in a layer that it will NOT be tanked with resist improvments.

That means the difference effectibvely is much smaller. Just fit the ships and check.

With a single eanm without good armor comp skills, but try putting another on, which the Mega has plenty of room to do. Also I do believe it should have another low slot but it should lose something in the process.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#859 - 2013-04-26 12:14:14 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
still wrong

Even with 1 gyro on the tempest vs 5 turrets and 2 mfs's on the megathron - the megathron still does more dps at point blank, is still faster and more agile, but this time with 10% more EHP.Lol

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#860 - 2013-04-26 12:23:22 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
still wrong

Forever ignorant


Take a look at their ehp difference before the Dc ii, and no, structure only makes a difference for ships without tanks and terrible fits. I'm pretty sure you just failed at eft warrioring, nice try though.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--