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Dev Blog: Client modification, the EULA and you

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CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2013-04-18 13:57:55 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Eterne
CCP Stillman from Team Security has a new dev blog out where he breaks down CCP's policy on client modification and goes into details about what is and isn't allowed. So if you've ever wondered what's against the rules and what's not, check it out here.

Please utilize this thread for all feedback!

EDIT: CCP Peligro addresses concerns regarding CCPs current policy on cache scraping:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2900665#post2900665

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-04-18 14:04:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Uppsy Daisy
Cache scraping is banned.

Ouch.

This will cause rage of the highest order.

Everyone running Eve-Mon is about to get banned, as it cache scrapes by default. How are you going to manage that CCP?!
Hosedna
FumbleFamily Corp
#3 - 2013-04-18 14:07:20 UTC
The wiki page states that cache scraping is forbidden. If I'm correct, popular services such as eve-central rely on it... Do you plan to release an API access to the market to make up for this ? Or many player developped application based on eve-central api will just ... die. And it's not going to be good for the market !
CCP Stillman
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2013-04-18 14:09:27 UTC
Hosedna wrote:
The wiki page states that cache scraping is forbidden. If I'm correct, popular services such as eve-central rely on it... Do you plan to release an API access to the market to make up for this ? Or many player developped application based on eve-central api will just ... die. And it's not going to be good for the market !

Cache scraping is against the EULA. We will enforce it at our discretion. That has always been the case. Don't expect anything to change. We merely wanted to clarify the matter. Smile

Just a random dude in Team Security.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#5 - 2013-04-18 14:11:44 UTC
Death to cheaters.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Hosedna
FumbleFamily Corp
#6 - 2013-04-18 14:13:47 UTC
CCP Stillman wrote:
Hosedna wrote:
The wiki page states that cache scraping is forbidden. If I'm correct, popular services such as eve-central rely on it... Do you plan to release an API access to the market to make up for this ? Or many player developped application based on eve-central api will just ... die. And it's not going to be good for the market !

Cache scraping is against the EULA. We will enforce it at our discretion. That has always been the case. Don't expect anything to change. We merely wanted to clarify the matter. Smile


It would just be clearer for anyone if a legal access to these vital market data was provided :)
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#7 - 2013-04-18 14:14:46 UTC
Can you give an example on when Multiboxing software can count as client modification? I guess when they manipulate the video stream to show multiple UI elements in one window?
What about cloning 1 mous pointer to 50 clients?

with kind regards
l0rd carlos

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
June Ting
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#8 - 2013-04-18 14:15:24 UTC
One clarification question: is tailing chat logfiles (e.g. what eve-live.com does) considered acceptable?

And echoing what's been said about cache scraping -- this is going to seriously hurt market liquidity and arbitrage opportunities if eve-central.com and friends are forced to go down, unless CREST comes out very quickly.

I fight for the freedom of my people.
CCP Stillman
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2013-04-18 14:15:45 UTC
Hosedna wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:
Hosedna wrote:
The wiki page states that cache scraping is forbidden. If I'm correct, popular services such as eve-central rely on it... Do you plan to release an API access to the market to make up for this ? Or many player developped application based on eve-central api will just ... die. And it's not going to be good for the market !

Cache scraping is against the EULA. We will enforce it at our discretion. That has always been the case. Don't expect anything to change. We merely wanted to clarify the matter. Smile


It would just be clearer for anyone if a legal access to these vital market data was provided :)

Can't say that I disagree. We'd like to provide more data to everybody. But that's not my department I'm afraid, but is something I'm lobbying.

Just a random dude in Team Security.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-04-18 14:17:03 UTC
is cache scraping what evemon does when it 'sends market data from your eve installation cache to online endpoints'?
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-04-18 14:19:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Uppsy Daisy
Benny Ohu wrote:
is cache scraping what evemon does when it 'sends market data from your eve installation cache to online endpoints'?


Absolutely, yes.

Half the player population are now breaking the EULA. Nice job CCP.

This really is pathetic. How can you pop up and say half the player base are breaking the EULA and we will 'enforce at our discretion'? Please explain.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#12 - 2013-04-18 14:19:01 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
is cache scraping what evemon does when it 'sends market data from your eve installation cache to online endpoints'?


Yes

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2013-04-18 14:21:14 UTC
Ban ISBotters

.
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-04-18 14:21:20 UTC
When will you be taking down your illegal Eve Market endpoint Steve?

lol
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#15 - 2013-04-18 14:21:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Chribba
Time to read... and come back with questions.

-

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
CCP Stillman
C C P
C C P Alliance
#16 - 2013-04-18 14:22:59 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
is cache scraping what evemon does when it 'sends market data from your eve installation cache to online endpoints'?


Absolutely, yes.

Half the player population are now breaking the EULA. Nice job CCP.

This really is pathetic. How can you pop up and say half the player base are breaking the EULA and we will 'enforce at our discretion'? Please explain.

Our EULA hasn't changed in this regard. This is the EULA we've always had. We have not outlawed cache scraping as of today. It has always been against our EULA. It's at our discretion as to enforcing it.

Team Security focuses on what we can do to stop macroing and RMT. That is where we will spend our time. So take that for what you want.

Just a random dude in Team Security.
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#17 - 2013-04-18 14:23:56 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Cache scraping is banned.

Ouch.

This will cause rage of the highest order.

Everyone running Eve-Mon is about to get banned, as it cache scrapes by default. How are you going to manage that CCP?!

Eve-Mon, Eve-HQ, Contribtastic... Strongly suggest revisiting this before whacking anybody with the ban hammer. I'm sure market bots scrape caches from clients in multiple regions as they play their 0.01ISK games, but until there is some sort of API/CREST mechanism to make this data available in somewhat real time (5min delay? 10min public cache?), a lot of normal players depend on this just to figure out where rare and "contraband" stuff is available.
Selena Na'sharr
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#18 - 2013-04-18 14:24:34 UTC
What's the position on gaming keyboards with macro-capabilities, such as the Logitech G15? Its driver inherently supports some level of user-initiated automation. (in short, do I need to look for a new keyboard? :))
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#19 - 2013-04-18 14:25:04 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
When will you be taking down your illegal Eve Market endpoint Steve?

lol



EMDR, by itself, is fine. As it does no scraping. It does takes data from clients (like evemon) which do the scraping, but it does no scraping itself.

What'd be a semi-workable solution, would be for CCP themselves to feed data into EMDR.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-04-18 14:25:39 UTC
CCP Stillman wrote:
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
is cache scraping what evemon does when it 'sends market data from your eve installation cache to online endpoints'?


Absolutely, yes.

Half the player population are now breaking the EULA. Nice job CCP.

This really is pathetic. How can you pop up and say half the player base are breaking the EULA and we will 'enforce at our discretion'? Please explain.

Our EULA hasn't changed in this regard. This is the EULA we've always had. We have not outlawed cache scraping as of today. It has always been against our EULA. It's at our discretion as to enforcing it.

Team Security focuses on what we can do to stop macroing and RMT. That is where we will spend our time. So take that for what you want.


No, but you have spelt out clearly that you consider it illegal.

Previous official CCP posts have said that it is not illegal.
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