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Dev Blog: Client modification, the EULA and you

First post First post
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#781 - 2013-09-05 14:09:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Atum
NCAP Target Dummy wrote:
What's now the official position about market cache scraping?

CCP Peligro lays it out here. Basically, if you're just scraping to upload to market sites or save the hassle of copypasta into your spreadsheets, it's not a problem. If you're scraping to do something nefarious (like run a market bot), Team Security will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furrrrrrrrrrrrrrriuous anger!
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#782 - 2013-09-07 12:22:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Stallman
CCP Stillman wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
If your department doesn't have the capacity to evaluate and green-list third party tools then you need to avoid language that makes using any tool an EULA violation.

The language of the third party policies post does not change the EULA. It simply explains the EULA more in depth.

We can't green-list third party tools. For one thing, doing so could make us legally liable for the actions done by third parties. So I'm afraid it's not just feasible, even if it would make things easier.

OK, I completely see where you are coming from. There is an idea I have suggested several times that has never been replied to, which is this:

Make a black list of behaviors that can and have gotten people banned. All of them. Then slap a boilerplate on it that the list is a guideline and not comprehensive, that CCP reserves the right to add, remove or alter entries without notice, then add it as an reference appendix to the EULA.

This way, third party developers will be able to get a solid understanding of the kind of behaviors that are not approved of without in any way infringing on CCP's ability to retain the final word on what is and is not allowed. The list wouldn't even be part of the EULA itself, just a list of behaviors that have historically bet met with severe disciplinary action.

When I was heavy into my networking coursework at university, one of my professors spent a full three hour lecture discussing the ins and outs of writing a good acceptable use policy, and the fundamental tenet was that everything in the document had to be enforced equally, that here in the States at least there is legal precedent of employees winning wrongful termination suits because of unequal enforcement of a policy, even when they were fired for something that was specifically in violation of a document they signed. That last doesn't really apply in this case, as the EULA does provision for banning with or without cause, but still.

The SANS Instutute (SysAdmin, Audit, Networking, and Security) actually has a published template for an acceptable use policy that may be an interesting read, if you have not already seen it. You can find that HERE. If you read through it, you will note that every single item in it is realistically enforceable in 100% of applicable cases, with no managerial hand-waving.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#783 - 2013-09-09 21:25:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy Landen
What's wrong with market bots? CCP has failed to improve the market since the beginning of my time in the game many years ago.

Hey, CCP! Look at how the real commodities market works. Look at how real commodities traders pull the data and process it. It's about time Eve get a market mechanics update!

Let's have real collateral for buy orders on the margin, just like real brokerage houses require. Let's have both buy and sell orders for speculators with automatic exit options. A buy order with an automatic sell order condition created, and sell orders with the option to exit on certain conditions with buy orders. No more 1 ISK'ing tedious non-sense. Maybe even create the pit boss role for those with lots of ISK and know how. Surely someone at CCP is willing to learn how real commodities markets work. The market was the primary element of my interest in Eve when I first subscribed. Come on CCP! Let's get this market working like real markets work!

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein