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New dev blog: Hybrid weapon and Tech II ammo balancing

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Holy Cheater
Monks of War
#181 - 2011-10-31 17:08:42 UTC
Changes to hybrid turrets are positive, but not sufficient. In fact, they are far from it.

The blaster boats would still have similar damage with far less range than other turret weapons and with armor tank which will further degrade their capability to catch someone.

Quote:

Hail (all sizes): Removed falloff penalty

This stuff alone gives a hell of a lot of boost to autocannons comparing to this hybrid "balancing".
Wu Phat
InsufficientFunds LLC.
#182 - 2011-10-31 17:09:13 UTC
The Dominix will still not benefit from the buff as its limp **** power grid holds it back from being an awesome cheap solo or buffer gank/tank ship. Was hoping to fit a full rack of large neutron II's with buffer fit or large electron II's and double rep, double cap injection with this expansion, but that’s not going to happen. Straight
carmelos53
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#183 - 2011-10-31 17:10:27 UTC
I'd just like to say thank you ccp, the team is on the right track.

Now please start focusing on rebalancing the ships. If you want 6 months to do this people will end up losing faith.

I'd like to think that progress can be shown weekly with specific ships types.

The proteus in particular is difficult to fit so once these changes hit maybe take another look at mega hulls, bc hulls, t3 and assault ships??
Mirei Jun
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#184 - 2011-10-31 17:10:39 UTC
I'll be looking to test these changes on Singularity.

I think this goes a long way towards addressing the underlying problems, but obviously its all in the testing.
Faelyn L'Darcassan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2011-10-31 17:10:41 UTC
Jeffrey Powel wrote:
Faelyn L'Darcassan wrote:
Since it has been mentioned that Gallente ships have trouble getting into range in the first place, how about giving them a mwd bonus? like +10% mwd speed per level? wouldn't that help? once in range, they'd scram/web their target and melt them with blasters?

Do you realise the speed a 10% mwd speed give to a ship?


Indeed I do - that would be the sole point of getting into range fast, right? Maybe a +5% would be enough though. Moreover, since mwds drain cap rather fast they likely would not be permarun, or would they?

I for once would not perma run a so bonused mwd as that would even more stress the hybrid tracking issues... then again, maybe I am all wrong, it was just an idea based on the fact that gallente ships have trouble to get into range...
Lillena
Objects-in-Space
#186 - 2011-10-31 17:11:01 UTC
Mariner6 wrote:
Great to see CCP address the issue and obviously they are tracking on the fact that the ships using them are all jacked up. Unless this is addressed all these changes are frankly a minor band-aid, but I'll add a few more 2 cents on the table:

1) Why is the Mrym and the Ishkur not gettting the speed/agility boost? You can't tell me they are too fast already and the poor Myrm needs some help.



The Myrmidon is not a hybrid turret ship, and this is more of a hybrid buff, not a gallente buff. As for the ishkur I have no idea, maybe they think it's good enough with it's 5 drones.
zulrock
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#187 - 2011-10-31 17:14:23 UTC
While these changes are great for starters i think at some latter point you have to look at some of the bonuses on the Hyperion, and Brutix hull ships as the repair bonus is useless, its only usefull for PvE but blasters and rails aren't useful for this purpose. a bonus for resists or armor amount would be better.

As far as tech 2 ammo you should take a look at the close range ammo as no one uses conflag or void or Null.
1nsan1ty
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2011-10-31 17:14:24 UTC
I'd like to see Gallente different.. maybe add some special drone bonuses for the Gallente ships (for eg, make web drones actually usefull on gallente ships, so that we have a chance to catch up with others). Maybe even go further and design a new kind of drone (eg, sentry drones that can move with your ship, might give few ships sniper roles then)..

I am pretty sure that the way to save this race is revival and fixing of drones combined with some minor blaster/rail changes. The reason I made a Gallente character, back then, was this illusion that the Gallente were DRONES race, combination of few weapon systems, etc .. (you guys still remember the massive drone boat that the Domi was.. feared it was.. not mocked for its ugly looks, like today :))

Bring those days back I say!
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#189 - 2011-10-31 17:15:29 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
CCP Tallest brings yet more news of balancing. This time he tells us what he's doing to hybrid weapons and tech II ammo this winter!

Check it out right here and make sure you tell Tallest what your thoughts are about the changes. He's waiting for your feedback.


yay its a great day for gallente... time to catch some frogs & snails for the celebration party

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Jeffrey Powel
Primal Elemental
MARABUNTA
#190 - 2011-10-31 17:16:06 UTC
carmelos53 wrote:

The proteus in particular is difficult to fit so once these changes hit maybe take another look at mega hulls, bc hulls, t3 and assault ships??


Proteus difficult to fit? lol?
Damion Rayne
Panoptic
#191 - 2011-10-31 17:16:17 UTC
It's a good thing I've spent many a long hour staying true to my gunboats and Gallente ships. Intaki Vicotor!

ROA
Anaesthera
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2011-10-31 17:16:40 UTC
Where, oh where, is the Black Ops boost? My Sin has about 1 foot layer of dust on it. And I don't mean the little velocity changes... I'm talking overhaul. Pick two:

  • Bigger fuel bay and/or less consumption.
  • Longer lasting bridge.
  • Lower skill pre-req to light covert cyno.
  • Higher resists.
  • More drone bandwidth.


And, oh heck, might as well throw this one in too-
  • covert ops cloak Blink



    		•
    Astor Daeoli
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #193 - 2011-10-31 17:16:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Astor Daeoli
    CCP Tallest, that a start.

    Have you tested a boost to webs? Why not try a 25% base boost to webs? That would bring t2 webs to 75% seepd still a long way off their original 90% base, but this plus the tracking boost might be enough. No boost to webs leaves blasters broken.

    edit.. how about reducing scram range to 6k base for t2 scram?

    edit.. how about boosting sensor damps by 25%?
    Niamo Higate
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #194 - 2011-10-31 17:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Niamo Higate
    1nsan1ty wrote:
    I'd like to see Gallente different.. maybe add some special drone bonuses for the Gallente ships (for eg, make web drones actually usefull on gallente ships, so that we have a chance to catch up with others). Maybe even go further and design a new kind of drone (eg, sentry drones that can move with your ship, might give few ships sniper roles then)..

    I am pretty sure that the way to save this race is revival and fixing of drones combined with some minor blaster/rail changes. The reason I made a Gallente character, back then, was this illusion that the Gallente were DRONES race, combination of few weapon systems, etc .. (you guys still remember the massive drone boat that the Domi was.. feared it was.. not mocked for its ugly looks, like today :))

    Bring those days back I say!


    Drone boats you say?

    Myrm Fleet

    (fight at 3:40 ish)

    Also <3 for hybrid/ t2 ammo love Lol
    Cap Tyrian
    Guiding Hand Social Club
    #195 - 2011-10-31 17:19:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Cap Tyrian
    I could argue all day but TL;DR

    Give Hybrids their own role.

    "more range, higher alpha, faster re-lode time, damage versatility" thats the wrong way to go.

    high DPS and high Tracking is the way for Blasters, but not viable if you cant reach your target/ hold your target in place / doge your targets weapons with your burning hull to apply a few more shots etc etc you all know the issues and paradox about how Blasters are suppose to work and real eve.

    less cap use or smaller amo, that really makes a difference ..... not.


    My Proposal,

    invent hybrids all new. High DPs fast tracking is good but how about giving them, in adition, threw amo some special effects for their cap usage. for example

    EWear effects,

    Webifire amo to keep the hard caught target in range and maybe make use of the tracking advantage.
    Lock braking amo,
    cap neutralizing amo,
    etc

    or Bleed threw amo. Your Hybrid charges rip a big hole in that shield letting a bit DPS bleed threw

    Just be Creative CCP!


    edit:
    for example weber amo as in reducing a ships speed ~2-3% per hit and not for an amount of time
    Tore Vest
    #196 - 2011-10-31 17:20:24 UTC
    Sensor strength !!!
    A close combat blasterfitted ship need sensor strength !

    No troll.
    Archetype 66
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #197 - 2011-10-31 17:21:06 UTC
    Archetype 66 wrote:
    All railgun turrets: +10% to Damage modifier

    How does it work ? I'm not comfortable with turret formulas and how bonus works (Turret + Skills + Ship Bonus+ Riggs + Implants etc...)* But does a +10% to Damage modifier means mandatory +10% DPS...I'm not sure about that and I feel that it can be more...

    * I had read an excelent post about how bonus work and how they apply (Skills > Riggs with penality or not etc..) but I can't find it anymore. Anyone can link it or PM it to me. Tvm !


    Bump
    Vedje
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #198 - 2011-10-31 17:23:33 UTC
    Nimrod Nemesis wrote:



    I want to believe that 10% damage and a little more leeway on grid/cpu will make headway for rails, but I have serious doubts.



    Word

    I completely agree with you
    Reduction off pg cpu needs are important
    So is the reduction on cap drain, love that

    However, i believe that so small damage & tracking boost just don't cut it.
    Correct me if i am wrong, but as i see it a blastertron for example, which is a bs
    and as such should be superior to say a cruiser or a battlecruiser on short range
    will still be completely incapable off dealing out decent damage to them.
    A hurricane would be way superior to a Brutix, and again gallente left with only one
    bc somewhat capable of pvp, the myrmi.

    Correct me if i am wrong but, 10% better tracking is almost not worth the mention

    Come'on CCP, work with us here
    Valarie Rikeen
    Nexus Advanced Technologies
    #199 - 2011-10-31 17:24:27 UTC
    Perdition64 wrote:
    Blasters definitely need a damage increase on reflection. Now, this might look very high on paper, but perhaps a 20% increase to damage in addition to these changes. This way, whilst their damage dealt in close proximity is very high, they still have similar TTK’s as their peers, due to the fact that they have more travelling than any other ships to get into their optimal range – i.e they accrue more damage in the process.
    If I take 2 well established ships, the hurricane and a Brutix: (fittings ripped mercilessly from Battleclinic, because I LOST MY EFT BACKUPS >.>)

    ......

    We can see that DPS is not too far apart, (768 dps vs 592 dps), yet the speed of a hurricane is 1434 m/s vs the Brutix's 1112 m/s (before the change). Tank is only different by 4k EHP.

    10 m/s is not going to effect this hugely. The tanking abilities are relatively close, as are the dps abilities, considering the hurricane can kite outside the Brutix's maximum 9km effective range, as it is the faster ship. Now, if the Brutix was given greater damage, (20% increase), we see its DPS rise to 921 dps. There is a larger difference, but now, that is accounted for by the hurricanes ability to kite the target, as well as the fact that Brutix will recieve more damage attempting to get into that range. What it does mean, however, is that when it is in range, it will hurt and hurt hard, evening out this fight somewhat.

    Again, maybe 20% is too far, maybe 10% would suffice. All I know is that blasters and rails both need a bit more damage, to really make their roles attractive alternatives. It seems this buff does not go far enough. To paraphrase others here, why would you fly blasters over AC's as it stands? This buff, compared to the projectile buff is impotent.


    thats not really "close" brutix has 25% more damage. also, remember you are comparing a tier 1 BC with a tier 2

    that 10 m/s is base speed, so that will scale to approximately 70-80 m/s after skills/MWD etc. that only closes 25% of the speed difference.

    of course, if kiting is the issue... then no difference in dps will change that. But when a brutix warps in at 0 and scrams and webs that hurricane... he will die.
    Callidus Dux
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #200 - 2011-10-31 17:24:33 UTC
    I currently use missiles. But I really want to train some gunnery skills. My first thought was, that I could learn Caldari and Hybrid. But it was never a good idea.
    Than I heard of the upcoming Hybrid changes and I was happy, that it might be a good idea to use Caldari and Hybrid. But it seems, that the Caldari will not have much from this changes.

    Maybe I have used missiles to long and see no improvements for this changes of hybrid for Caldari. But in my eye it looks, that I should absolutely NOT train Hybrid for my caldariships.

    Maybe I am wrong. But at this point; I am a little bit disappointed because of the, for caldari, useless changes.

    Please change the SHIPS of the Caldari, concerning hybridplatforms, too. I want to learn and test a Rokh. But with:
    Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level and 5% shield resistance per level
    I think that the SHIP itself has not the best statistics and that it would be very disappointing.

    Please correct me, if I am wrong.