Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Maelstrom not changing looks fine. Still need Advanced Weapon Upgrades at 5 before fitting a full rack of the biggest guns, plus other goodies. Fine by me.

Typhoon looks... Interesting. I've never really been a fan of it personally, and since I'm not a fan of missile boats, I won't even fly one, so my opinion is useless.

Tempest, on the other hand... WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU?! Tempest is a gunboat. Pure and simple, it is THE gunboat. It rushes to get in close, and punches things in the face. It should be the fastest Battleship on the field. And it should have the firepower to match the other Attack Battleships. Put the Typhoon as the second Combat Battleship, and make the Tempest our Attack Battleship. And let it attack things. Harshly. In a rapey kind of way.

I'm pretty sure that that's becaus the 1400mm's have the best Alpha in the game and becaus of the higher ehp of the maelstrom vs the tempest so i'm not sure your argument here is for the maelstroms viablity as mutch as it is the 1400mm's being a good weapon system in Fleets

so it's fact becaus the maelstrom is tier 3 atm that makes it the fleet viable ship and since nothing will change for 1400mm capable minmatar BSs I guess it'll simply reamain this way given that no extra viability nor flexibility is going to be comming to these ships.

Typhoon is a CR armor BS and I guess we will just hav to find a way for these to be viable again thoe I highly doubt this will happen atm with how many negatives there are to being big, fat, slow and having **** all attack range / viable weapon systems to go with it.

so yeah it's not that the maelstrom seen as viable we are simply given no real choice here :) thoe I guess you can simply see it in black and white here and go "yeah but that does mean it's viable... BRO!" I simply see inflexibility and this saddens me since I kinda like 1400mms :o I guess the real problem is that with how good the maelstrom would be with like a range or tracking bonus instead or even shield resist bonus? yeah sadly the way the game is atm it's becaus it would be too OP if you gave it anything other than bonuses it allready has :(

I guess this kinda makes my post unconstructive but I just wish there was more Flexibility in what could easily be changed :(

The Typhoon has been one of my favourite ships in pvp for awhile now allowing me to make the most of an almost perfect set of skills in drones, missiles & projectiles to yield exceptional dps in some situations and still apply a reasonable amount of dps in most situations. It was a perfect odd ball ship and full of surprises with a big drone bay and options to use all sorts of interesting utility, just like Minnie ships should be.

I'm disappointed but not surprised to see the changes. If I wanted to fly a Raven I'd fly a Raven, not buy a Typhoon, same with the new Cyclone changes - if I wanted a Drake I'd get one.

We need to keep eve ships interesting with lots of variation based on your modules, not a game of rock paper scissors based on which hull is locked into which role like other MMO's.

Please, please take the feedback you're getting in this thread seriously and consider swapping the roles of the Tempest and Typhoon and adjusting their respective stats accordingly. It would also be a good idea to revisit the drone nerf to the Typhoon while you're at it.

With these latest rounds of "balancing" I'm seeing more and more of the Minmatar racial flavor disappearing. You're making Matari ships bulkier, slower and blowing up their sig radius. It just doesn't feel quite right in practical terms or in keeping with the lore of the game.

Guess I'd better start training Amarr BS as they're looking like the clear winners unless things change dramatically.

so typhoon had:

8 high slots
5 launchers
5 turrets
5 heavy drones

you could fit it as missile boat with 3x neuts, or as a projectile boat with 3x neuts
while doing additional 300+ DPS with drones.

you didn't HAVE to have missiles and projectiles and drone skills to be good with phoon.

you could fit it with great tank or gank or neut platform, whatever you wanted.
It is called VERSATILITY

now it is a standard grey ship capable for only 1 role.
drone damage is gone, ability to fit autocanons is gone, ability to be a neut platform is gone.

why.

Kind of agreeing with the stuck in a box comments...
yes all the numbers are balancing out, and roles are being filled... but i think your taking too much character out of battleships in this case, not enough racial uniqueness.

Tempest is the hurricanes big brother. The nimble brawler, uses smarts to kill but doesn't forget its a battleship.
Maelstrom is the grizzled veteran the dependable fighter. It wades in to a fight and everyone knows it.
Typhoon is an enigma. When it lands on field it worries the opponent. All they know is its going to hurt!

That to me is the essence of the Minmatar BS's

I don't care what you think about tiericide or balance, but you guys really missed the point of the Typhoon. I won't try to justify myself with game design theory(although I may later), but for now I want you to listen to my story.

Almost 4 years ago I started my journey in Eve. I had read about the coming Apocrypha expansion and was completely entranced by the idea of the "wild west" of New Eden's w-space. Who wasn't? We've all watched Firefly(or should have). I'd been jumping from MMO to MMO for years, having started with WoW but lost interest surprisingly quickly. Something about it felt gimmicky, and it barely retained my attention past the second year, which is rather notoriously short for an MMO. Nothing stuck.

But Eve was something different. Almost immediately upon logging in I was overwhelmed with options and possibilities. I tried it all. Mining, Missions, failfit PvP, Exploration. It was all new and engaging. But I had a goal. I was going to move to w-space eventually. It was going to happen. So with sleepers in my sights, I started to plan for the long term. I knew I needed to master scanning, and exploration was a natural stepping stone. But exploration alone wouldn't teach me how to be ruthless and survive in eve. I fell in with ninjas and starting using my scanning skills for theft. New as I was, I was unfit for combat. I had to evade or speed tank mission runners who shot at me, as I had no ships to come back with and kill them.

At the same time, I started venturing out into lowsec for exploration. Some of the complexes I couldn't do in a hurricane or cyclone, as my skills were simply too low and I had much to learn. I spent some time wandering between projects. I got my feet wet. I got shot and killed a few times. I learned how to adapt and outwit a better armed opponent, who came at me in large numbers.

But when all was said and done, it was one ship that truly propelled me forward on my path: The Typhoon. Even with my abysmal skills the ship was a monster. My damage was lackluster as I had all T1 weapon systems, T1 tank modules, and couldn't even field a full flight of drones. But it's flexibility and the sheer tankiness of it even without the appropriate skills allowed me to prevail. My first mission runner kill was in a Typhoon. Most of my first complexes I cleared were in a Typhoon.

I used my Typhoon as an all-in-one exploration boat in Highsec. I used it in Lowsec, carrying extra fitting modules in my hold, and using it's surprisingly good tank and agility to evade certain death at the hand of gatecamps. Did I get popped in low? Absolutely, but these things happen. I learned how to manage isk and avoid risk because of it. When I started w-space, it was in a hurricane, then a cyclone.

But the Typhoon was the ship that finally changed my day trips into something more. When I launched my first tower, a medium minmatar tower in a little class 2, I cleared all my sites in a typhoon. It was t1 fit, with T2 tank modules at the time. I could field a full flight of drones though, so it wasn't all bad. When I started looking at my C3 static enviously, I wasn't sure how to approach it. Flying a T3 was still at least 6-8 months away, and I simply wasn't wealthy enough to risk that kind of isk in a system I wasn't familiar with.

I had invited two other players along in my w-space ventures. One an IRL friend who incidentally had gotten into Eve around the same time as me. She didn't play much. Another former ninja who shared my fascination with sleeprs. Equally noobish, we devised a clever fitting that would allow us to finally break into C3 sites without laying down 600 million isk. We ran an RR sentry Domi and an RR sentry phoon. Whoever was primaried would active local rep while the secondary used RR. When they switched targets, local rep would power down and RR would come online. It was only cap stable running one of the two rep systems, but with this balanced system, we effectively ran a 2 man spider rep fleet. Once again, It was not a drake, or a cyclone, or even a Loki that carried me into the next step in my journey. I made the jump in a Typhoon.


CCP, hear my plea. If there is any ship undeserving of these changes, any ship that is more worthy of it's current status and title, it's the Typhoon. Typhoon was more than just a status symbol to bittervets with too many skill points. The ship is still among the most flexible battleships even at low skillpoints, and it's versatility helped many new players like myself to truly embrace the minmatar lifestyle. I've done more things in more different regions and playstyles of eve with my Typhoon than most players do with all their ships combined. To change it to a mere Attack Ship is to lose the very essence of it. It's more than skill points and epeens. It symbolizes the rugged adaptability and will to survive that has defined the Minmatar playstyle since the earliest days of Eve. Noobs and Vets alike have relied on this ship for a decade now. Take every other ship we have, but please leave the Typhoon as it is.

I will post my overall feeling on this thread because its less populated, therefore more likely my post to be read and not trampled by other posts.


That being said, I will talk about all 4 races changes, because its completely wrong to analyse ships separated by magical barriers.



My feelings:

HORRIBLE ! The main issue that was to increase the value of battleship in modern battlefield was not tackled. Also the attempt to project the same division of roles that cruisers have into battleships its a complete failure of understanding what a battleship is and should be. And as many have already said, too much murdering of races identities in name of standarization. That is not the same eve I fell in love years ago.


A general note. CCp has added new specific Battleship modules, the MJD, but the battleships continue to be much harder to fit than cruisers and battlecruisers are. Just be realistic CCP. Rebalance powergrid so that all battleships can fit their largest guns, MWD MJD with perfect skills without need of a RCU II, at most the need of a pg implant. Same with CPU.

On a more fine grained annalysis:

Apoc: Possibly a good change, but it needs more capacitor seriously. Check how long that thing can fire beams? You are relegating the ship exclusively to pulses currently.

Armageddon: The most offenseive changes. Amarr used to be the kings of medium range gank and now they lost this marvelous ship and role. Instead they were relegated to be a mix of gallente and caldari, in essence you gave amarr a Gurista ship. That is far, very far from any race identity and this type of abuse must never be made. Torpedo and drones are not to be on amarr battleship level. The neut bonus has its possible place, but not this whoel tripple modification. Also this change steps compeltely over GALLENTE BOUNDARY OF IDENTITY.


Abaddon: Nerfing battleships? They are still overall (as a class) too weak an not worth using, and CCP still nerf them? Ok the bonus is too powerful, but it remaisn that ALL battleships should be BUFFED.



Typhoon: All backwards with he tempest. and steped on toes of too many minmatar lovers. The typhoon always was the armor tanking ship of matar line. Do not make it upside down with tempest. Keep the 6 launchers and 7 highs. But keep the ship able to fit 4 guns. That will add minimal DPS but will keep a lot of people happy. Also do not tough its drone bay. Yes the typhoon power must be larger than its now, as all battleships should!

Give the typhoon the combat role and HP.


Tempest: Stop dodging it! Tempest does not have a role. Everything it does the maelstrom can do better as a combat ship. More alpha, more tank, easier to fit. The tempest need a massive change. Remove 1 high slot and give it a low slot for a proper armor combat ship. Or Literally swap it with the typhoon and make it the attack ship as all its history and characteristics suggest it should be. Reduce tempest HP to attack level, and give it same mobility as the current typhoon proposal. Increase its rof OR the dmg bonus to 7.5% per level. yes it needs a proper buff, as all the battleships need to be really relevant in battlefield.


Malestrom: Ok I understand its powerful, but still think its a badly made ship. It was presented as a fleet ship and the 8 artie can do that. But the shield boost bonus is NOT compatible with that role. Give it a Shield 10% HP bonus. Maybe even pass the shield boost bonus to tempest and make the tempest a 10% ROF per level and 7.5% shield boost ship (with 7/6/6 layout). That would give the ships more clearly well made roles!


Dominix: Ok I get the concept, but the armageddon changes make this ship moot, as the navy vexor and likely other ship changes to come, make them useless. How to fix it? Give it a 15% Drone hitpoint and damage per level. Yes another buuf, because, I shall repeat myself. All battleships need a buff.

Megatron: Raped completely the minmatar role and tempest identity. What you want here? a giant brutix? I get that its cool.. but what in hell you think its gonna be used in? and how do you can dare to say its not a minmatar ship ? it steps too much into another race role. I do not know what to make of this ship, but the change is not gallente at all. My feeling is that you guys wanted to give hyperion a 7th slot and had some type of compulsive disorder and could not stand 2 ships with same slot layout and invented an upside down megathron to make your fingers stop iching. Advise.. that is NOT A GOOD REASON.

Hyperion: I get why 7 low slots are important. But... the capacitor !!! Use the same approach of the brutix. Remove a high slot and a turret, increase the bonus to a 5% rof bonus. Make it a 7/6/7 and you have a great boat.


Scorpion: strnage role so not much to add.


Raven? WHAT a fast battleship in caldari. Mrs this is again conceptually wrong. The slot change is OK, but ravens should get more hitpoints and not speed. Speed is not a caldari trait! Will not help much in combat, but still states clearly taht CCP losts the vision of the races! Why not just increase even more Sensor, and lcok range to make caldari ships even stronger against eWar? With missiels, a very large lock range and strong sensors the rav

Rokh; Check abaddon. Exact same thing.

Large signature and slower than so many other ships is not minmatar at all! It has not CPU enough to fit torpedoes and a shield tank, the neut role is gone because of the new king of Neutralizers. Its stil weaker than maelstrom in ANY COMBAT application. if they want minmatar to have an armor tanker battleship it must have 7 low slots.

Minmatar largest signature ships should be slightly larger than the smaller ones (from same class of course) from the other races. But minmatar are supposed to have less HP. That would be minmatar in essence! Stop trying to make minmatar into amarr

The maelstrom apparently has 700 structure LOL