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[Odyssey] Faction Navy Frigates

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Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#301 - 2013-03-26 08:03:48 UTC
Sorry but I can say only again: These changes are =/%/(§/
Firetail needed a buff. Slicer buff is too small. Comet was okay and really didn´t need a buff.
Hook nerf???? Congrats. CCP kills the hook. There will be only 2 fits possible.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#302 - 2013-03-26 10:16:21 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Sorry but I can say only again: These changes are =/%/(§/
Firetail needed a buff. Slicer buff is too small. Comet was okay and really didn´t need a buff.
Hook nerf???? Congrats. CCP kills the hook. There will be only 2 fits possible.


Hook nerf?

CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL:
Caldari Frigate bonuses: +20% to Kinetic missile damage, +10% to EM, Explosive and Thermal missile damage and +10% to missile velocity per level
Slot layout: 3H, 5M, 2L; 0 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 37 PWG, 165 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 725 (+21) / 550 (+24) / 600 (+131)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 300 (+19) / 150 (-37.5) s / 2 (+0.5013)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 360 / 3.3 / 1081000 (+100000) / 3.34s (+0.31)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km (+10) / 600 (+50) / 5 (+1)
Sensor strength: 13 Gravimetric (+1)
Signature radius: 40

The mass increase results in a %4-%4.5 decrease in top speed when MWD'ing. In return it is getting a %28 increase in locking range, %33 increase in cap regen and increased sensor strength.

For example this will result in you replacing your micro cap booster on your beloved hookbill fit with a cap recharger and still being cap stable....or dual damp bills ditching their usual cap power relay in lows for another nano. You'll be still be able to lock to 21k (which is almost the locking range of some other frigs) under two damps.

No this isn't a nerf.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#303 - 2013-03-26 10:47:02 UTC
Looks good to me at casual glance.

The slicer definitely needs that CPU. Maybe I can fit a T2 disruptor on it finally.

Firetail definitely needed a boost too, good show.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Belthazor4011
Battle BV Redux
#304 - 2013-03-26 22:18:52 UTC
Changes are not worth the time put into it. The navy frigs will still be what they've always been, not worth the price difference.

Find a way to make them much cheaper or much better. At their current ISK to performance ratio they are a joke.

I'll keep flying basic T1 frigs and not be scared of navy frigs. Even including these changes there never was nor probably will be a reason to use or fear them.
SilentStryder
#305 - 2013-03-26 23:11:17 UTC
Sad Face... Faction Ships getting rebalanced before Tech Ships... Sad
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#306 - 2013-03-26 23:18:25 UTC
SilentStryder wrote:
Sad Face... Faction Ships getting rebalanced before Tech Ships... Sad

Assault frigates were already rebalanced.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#307 - 2013-03-26 23:27:55 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
SilentStryder wrote:
Sad Face... Faction Ships getting rebalanced before Tech Ships... Sad

Assault frigates were already rebalanced.


Yes but we do still have 2 mid slot interceptors ^^

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Randy Wray
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#308 - 2013-03-27 18:42:16 UTC
Firetail changes are very much needed, It has been weaker than most tech 1 base line frigates after the rebalance.

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#309 - 2013-03-28 11:36:16 UTC
To be perfectly frank, the firetail doesn't need the extra CPU / PG, but the damage boost is more than welcome. It is already one of the brawlier high-speed frigates, and served a role as something of an interceptor killer - it could catch most of the faster frigates, and then severely outclass them in a fight, though its DPS was always lacking. I always fit mine as a dual propped scram-range kiter.

That said, can we get a reskin? Even the old camo was better looking, and it was best when it was black. The new skin looks like someone puked all over it. The colors are all just ugly shades of desaturated green and brown.
2manno Asp
Death By Design
#310 - 2013-03-28 19:38:03 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
To be perfectly frank, the firetail doesn't need the extra CPU / PG, but the damage boost is more than welcome. It is already one of the brawlier high-speed frigates, and served a role as something of an interceptor killer - it could catch most of the faster frigates, and then severely outclass them in a fight, though its DPS was always lacking. I always fit mine as a dual propped scram-range kiter.

That said, can we get a reskin? Even the old camo was better looking, and it was best when it was black. The new skin looks like someone puked all over it. The colors are all just ugly shades of desaturated green and brown.


midnight black. badass.
Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#311 - 2013-03-29 03:21:45 UTC
2manno Asp wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
That said, can we get a reskin? Even the old camo was better looking, and it was best when it was black.


midnight black. badass.


damn straight!

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!
Securis Unus
Pod Repo
#312 - 2013-03-29 09:53:53 UTC
Put the blue po po light back on the comet.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#313 - 2013-03-30 15:16:05 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
Can't you move the empty utility high on the slicer somewhere else? Its one of those frigs which never fight in scram range. Its the only ship i use where i deliberately keep a slot empty.

This I agree with, also someone's earlier post about changes to the hulls in regards to prop mods while rather confusingly written I felt merited some mention... ie, I think they should get a (lesser then an inty) boost to mwd sig rad penalty/ab mass penalty to further point them out as something "between the lines."
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#314 - 2013-03-30 15:27:16 UTC
Beaver Retriever wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
they don't have much in common with interceptors and AF's have 2 extra slots i think you underestimate how much an extra slot is worth over a bit of extra HP... nerf the speed a little on the firetail its as quick as the attack frigs


They don't have much in common with interceptors?

MWD velocities, align times

Claw: 4017 m/s, 3.26s
Firetail: 3519 m/s, 3.29s
Wolf: 2543 m/s, 4.23s

No, nothing in common at all.


Intys and AFs both have MWD sig reduction bonuses making them a lot more viable and survivable without dual prop.

^^^ again, this, the navy frigs need abit of love for sig rad penalties on mwd's
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#315 - 2013-03-30 15:29:58 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Why reduce the Slicer's capacitor performance? In my experience it is pretty damn near perfect, neither too much or too little.
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
how come they don't get an extra slot?


Because I'm much happier with their balance at 10 slots. Bringing them to 11 would keep the normal pattern for navy ships intact but would require compensating with other significant nerfs.

Might one suggest an alternative route to distinguishing Navy hulls .. a role Navy bonus akin to those sported by the other faction hulls (ie. pirate boats). Not as big mind you, half or one third would suffice .. just a little somethin-somethin to set them apart and make up for what effectively is a loss of the slot they previously had on the T1 hulls.

Would have to do some serious soul searching though, find that nugget that epitomizes each of the four races, something that can ideally be applied to all of a races navy hulls.

Or you could go K.I.S.S. on their asses and opt for ~10% extra resists somewhere, or 1/3-1/2 of what is granted the T2 hulls.

Or you could say that Navies incorporated sleeper tech after the success they had with the T3 adoption and slap a bit of heat resistance on them ..

hello, he didn't give a penalty to the slicer's cap performance, he reduced the amount of time it takes for the cap to recharge (ie, he made it recharge faster).
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#316 - 2013-03-31 21:06:51 UTC
2manno Asp wrote:
Fozzie - please confirm that the fitting stats posted are at lvl 0 skills, while speed/align time stats are at lvl 5 skill.

I fly and fight frigates a lot. My thougths are that all Navy frigs should have good dual threat fits. Meaning they should have viable kiting fits, and viable brawling fits. In EVE's current state really only the Hookbill, and in certain circumstances the Comet fit this bill.



The Slicer is good, and the targeting range was sorely needed. However as the 2nd best ship imo, I fell the extra fitting is a bit misguided. No matter how much being able to fit a nuet or noss looks good on paper, this ship cannot control range with 2 mids. Like the Punisher, it needs a 3rd mid. Groundbreaking yes, but until then it's a 1 trick pony. This ship needs more fitting options, not more fitting room. So the change:

1. Remove 3rd utility slot, trade out to 3rd mid slot. Revisit after metagame changes are made.

Much as I hate to say it, b/c I do rather like the proposed changes to the slicer making a somewhat more effective kite ship... even for a kite, it really should have that 3rd mid slot.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#317 - 2013-03-31 21:24:58 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Meditril wrote:
There is no problem with TD. The real problem is that Defender Missiles do not work properly and that they can't be fitted onto a gun-only ship. Solve these two and the kiting condor / hookbill will lose its horror because now you can prepare to counter its dps.

Coming back to Navy Frigates: I still think that the Firetail needs at least the same CPU as the Comet since it has more medium slots which means that there are more CPU consuming modules to fit.


Im thinking anti missile lasers.

sounds cool, but then, they've been proposing and basically indefinately delaying changes to TDs to work (albeit at a lesser extent) on missiles as well, and doing this would cover for that.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#318 - 2013-03-31 21:26:21 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Or both ideally.

There should be a anti-missile deterrent for launchers (working defender missiles), turrets (flack cannon), and utility highs (chaff launcher).

Optionally some of these defenses might also be effective against drones, but that would necessitate drones getting a rework in the first place to be more effective (harder to kill, obedient, smarter).

Of course, drones need to be reworked anyway as far as balance against each racial type, and the interface needs to be reworked to make them easier to control effectively (similar to controlling your other weapons systems). Drones slots, if you will.

This I really like, and perhaps would allow for something besides the TD changes that they apparently don't want to actually put through since they do keep delaying them without any reasoning provided for doing so.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#319 - 2013-03-31 21:36:31 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I definitely understand the frustration...

Reason why people want it is because frigate mids are insanely powerful .. "fix" it by re-evaluating cap consumption on all mid-modules Twisted and/or go back to the drawing board and reduce the number of frigs with 3+ mids (or their ability to utilize them without gimping something).
In the meantime, why not move the utility high to the low-rack? Make it Amarr through and through. Gives it option of adding tank, range, speed, whatever thus allowing it to fill roles similar to what the 3rd mid does (albeit not as effectively).

This, then, is definately a valid option worth considering for the slicer if your so intent on not giving it that 3rd mid.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#320 - 2013-04-01 00:23:52 UTC
Did you really need 7 posts to write 8 sentences?

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