Ships & Modules

imo the Ashimmu should have slightly better resists, more dps, and less neuts/nos slots.It would basically be a tanky dps with a bonus to 1 neut/nos. A ship to be feared for sure but it would be a slow ship.

Want some more DPS? Fly the phantasm/ahacs. Want some more neut/nos power and range? Fly T2 recons.

I think if CCP did this the ship would see a increase in usage since it moves the ship out of the "pvp only" bracket and doesnt focus as much on cap warfare.

Post to confirm that rattlesnkae is fine as it is right now.
That's why it sells for 500 mil while other pirate bs hull are between 1-1,4 bil.
Seriuosly, rattle is bad for pvp and u can get better ships for pve.

For the love of god can you people ever leave well enough alone? For the Mach's 1.3B isk hull cost you should be getting all of those things that you listed. The Mach is a specialized ship, its not like there are 500 ship Mach blobs ruining the game for everyone. Some times things don't have to be nerfed. We don't want to play a game where all ships are 100% the same.

Of course it is.



If the mach was free like noob ships then yes they should have the performance of noob ships. Do you not think it would break the game if people just started getting machs and dramiels for free instead of noobships?




Actually Eve has proven that cost is a huge factor. All of the navy battleships are better than the vanilla battleships. Yet people still fly the vanilla ones. Why? Cost.

I disagree, in this case price is the balancing factor.



Thank you for making my point for me.



Yes, 20% more alpha, 20% more DPS, 80% more speed but at a 650% price premium. Not to mention that because of its 5 midslots and no shield bonus you likely need to spend for a deadspace tank vs T2 on a Mael.



Which is why it is not a ship which is in need of rebalancing. The ship is being used and performing as it should. Nothing should ever be nerfed because its too good at PvE and if you have the nuts to PvP in a 2B+ ship then you deserve the benefits.

Nice straw man argument, when did I ever say anything about expensive ships being invincible? The Mach is far from it, killboards are full of Mach ganks. If a Titan pilot wanted to give up the majority of their tank to be able to blap battleships that sounds like a trade off to me.

How is a Mach as fast as a cruiser? A cruiser with a prop mod is twice as fast as the Mach with the same type of prop mod.

I think the mach is perfect in terms of balance. Almost all of the pirate BS are very well balanced and perform well in their respective niche.

I just ran a bunch of cruisers through EFT with MWD fit and I cant find one more than a few m/s slower than a Mach and most are faster with double the cap life. Besides, comparing a 10M isk T1 cruiser to a 1.3B isk pirate BS is a bit absurd. A regular T1 BS under MWD approaches 1k m/s speed, why would I not expect that a specialized pirate BS to be 40-50% faster than a vanilla T1 BS using the same prop mod? The specialized faction and pirate cruisers are.


Have you ever even flown or fit a Mach? Do you even realize that a full T2 max gank fit using 800mm AC is impossible to fit with all skills to 5 and a 5% CPU implant? So to get a full T2 fit you lose a low slot for a cpu mod and the T2 fit Mach with all skills to 5 gets 1135 gun DPS with a 50k EHP tank and 163 HP/s boost (not to mention only 1ish minute cap life with MWD and booster running). A T2 gank fit all skills to 5 Mael gets 1036 gun dps with the same 50k EHP tank and 224 HP/s boost. So for over 600% more cost you are getting only 10% more dps, 40% more speed, and 40% more falloff, but losing 40% of your shield boost. Sounds to me like cost is operating as a perfect balancer here. Want speed and range? Pony up the extra 1.1B for a Mach.

Do you realize that the "overpowered" Mach fits with too much gank and tank you talk about are built using billions of isk in faction and deadspace mods? I'm sorry but if you are flying a 1.3B isk ship with another 3-4B+ isk of bling on it then yes it should perform significantly better than all T1 BS. Here the cost balancer comes into play even more, as the cost of the fit is more than 20 T2 fit Maels.


I'm sorry but you are just wrong here. A quick check of the market shows over 250 Machs available throughout EVE with another dozen or so available on contracts plus 70 or so BPCs. If the supply was limited by BPC availability I would expect to see none available, especially in market hubs as the immense demand would cause them to be purchased as fast as they are put up for sale. As the ship (and its BPC) is readily available for purchase it is cost, not supply, which limits its use.


I don't see how you can possibly justify this statement. The Mach is a specialized ship that is good at specific things. Its not an unbeatable war machine, it isn't "easy mode" like the drake was. It doesn't have significantly more tank or gank than other ships of its class (which are Pirate BS btw, not T1 ships). Without deadspace gear its tank is thin and it has to be actively piloted to account for that. To even fly it you need to train up two races of ships. And obviously at its price, role, and skill requirements it is going to be better than most other ships. What you need to be doing is making an apples to apples comparison to ships of its class - the other pirate BS.

The biggest issue with the Drake was that its advantages resulted in PvP Drake blobs, something that is prevented (and thus balanced) by the cost of the Mach.


This. Honestly, I think there is a 0% chance that CCP can "balance" the pirate BS without f*ing them up. I get what CCP is doing with the T1 ship rebalances and that is good - each race should have viable ships in all classes and there shouldn't be one or two T1 ships in a class that stand out as significantly better than the rest. Pirate ships are a completely different story though. Their massive price tag means they shouldn't fly like plain vanilla T1 ships, and they shouldn't all be "balanced" like plain vanilla T1 ships. Nerfing these ships will remove the last few ships in the game that are actually fun to fly.

I'm all for the Mach being a good ship, but it practically does everything better than other ships in the game. It's just too damn fast, there is no way one of the physically biggest BS in the game should be able to match the pace of most cruisers, let alone battlecruisers.

Compare it to a Nightmare and the navy ships (ignoring Bhaalgorn/Vindi here due to being quite specialised) - the other ships are massively slower, but similar in most other respects.

I know there are two sides to every argument. As near as I can tell there are the Nerf Mach groups that vary from its OP or that it is too flexible. And the ‘Leave it alone’ group that believe it is fine and the rest of the Pirate Faction ships need buffed more than the mach needs Nerfed.

As all ships can be OP with enough ISK it would seem that a comparison done through t2 fittings alone escapes most people’s thought process. A similarly fitted mach for my purpose would require a 6% CPU implant and then it would be 75% slower 600dps weaker tank and 400dps less damage. So if I spare my wallet the 4 billion ISK for fittings I can have a maelstrom, It’s not OP it’s just really damn expensive to make it work. If I drop the Faction/T2 ammo to T1 ammo the difference is only a loss of 200dps between the two fits but still 400dps less than the expensive stuff. Still the tank is a dismal 450 not really the ‘King of ships’ for a 300 day training investment.

So as a comparison I fitted up a vindicator with T2 vs. Deadspace. And until CCP invents a 16% CPU implant it will never be a T2 fitted ship, but it will probably be left alone in the tieracide.

Why stop there; Nightmare, is a breeze to fit everything on and room to spare, the virtual Swiss Knife of the Pirate faction BS’s
The Blaagorn; Can be setup without gimping the pilot or the fit, especially when the specified role of ‘Nueting monster’ is the primary consideration.

So why all the hate for Machariels, since the fitting requirements also hamstring the pilot into investing so much ISK that undocking in high sec is a risk and Low sec is a veritable CTA magnet. Not because it is so badass that everyone is needed to take it down, but because the killmail is bound to be more enviable than a Tournament prize.