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What does the Phantasm even do?

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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#161 - 2013-03-09 00:39:03 UTC
Active tank bonuses are generally fine, and they're paired with stronger bonuses and better base attributes to account for the fact that they're weaker than resist bonuses. Yes, they don't scale into The Blob as well... but really, that's not a problem.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#162 - 2013-03-09 11:09:34 UTC
Better base attributes? how so?
Does not the Punisher also get a 5% damage bonus?
Does not the Punisher have a stronger base cap? (granted, its lasers use more cap)

When I look at the base attributes of the ships, I don't see anything that makes the active repping ships stand out, and then when I look at the bonuses, I see them generally fall behind.

Although, In the case of the Rokh vs maelstrom, and mostly shield ships in general, it does seem OK, as more DPS seems preferable to more range.
But for the small frigs, the merlin is a beast.

CCP needs to realize that armor resist bonuses are an active rep bonus. If they want buffer vs rep, then use a bonus like the damnation, +x% to hitpoints

I was OK with it when the bonus really was significantly stronger, when the incursus repped 10% more per level.
But now that they've lowered it back down to 7.5%, its crap compared to the resist bonus.

1.375x EHP rep rate vs 1.333 EHP rep rate.... only 3.125% better.... but oh, whats that, another low to allow for higher resists? oh, thank you very much, EHP rep rate is now higher....
Even ignoring the extra low (maybe you'll argue an extra mid with a cap booster/whatever makes up for it), how long is it going to take a 3% higher rep rate to surpass a 33% higher buffer... oops, did I say 33%, I meant more than that because the punisher has more base armor HP, and the same goes for the hyperion vs abaddon, brutix vs proph

I'm just glad there's no active rep gall cruiser for the maller to completely outclass it in tanking ability, in pretty much every situation, be it 1v1, small gang, of larger fleets
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#163 - 2013-03-09 20:14:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Komodo Askold
Even though its known issues, I love this ship, so I recently bough one and got myself to make a fit that worked. In gaming, I generally like the most the things other people likes less, or considers underpowered, and try to get the most out of them. Since I generally do PVE rather than PVP, I made the fit for PVE. This is the result:

[Phantasm, PVE]

Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Damage Control II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large Ancillary Shield Booster
Large Ancillary Shield Booster
Ionic Field Accelerator I

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
[Empty High-Slot]

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I

Add flavour drones, specially at least one Salvage Drone I.

Even though it may look strange, or not totally optimized, it does work fine for L3's and sites, and I will be optimizing it further as I'm getting to the ship. While making the fit, I realized which are the ship's main issues that should be buffed up a bit, in order to make this ship easier to fit:

- CPU: that's the reason I left an empty high-slot and I'm not using Heavy Pulses II. Even with all skills at level 5, you still need a CPU implant for being able to fit it properly. I'd prefer a medium sized vampire and a scan probe launcher, but the lack of CPU makes it very difficult without sacrificing resistances (using Amplifiers instead) or buying expensive implants.

- Capacitor: while this fit is cap stable, it wouldn't be if I was using non-ancillary boosters. The reason I use 2 is because of the long recharge time. And with ASB's, comes the issue of quickly having your cargohold full of charges.

- Speed: this ship could have a little more base speed. At least, it wouldn't be wrong to level it with regular cruisers in that sense.

- Drones: just 3 small drones feel a bit sad; what about 20m3 instead of 15?

That said, I have to say the ship does have good EHP compared to regular cruisers, and very useful bonuses. Hope this helps other players to guide themselves towards a good fit, and CCP to see which are the ship's main issues.
Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#164 - 2013-03-10 07:21:58 UTC

It seems I'm rather late to the conversation.

What does the Phantasm do?

It gets bling fit, named "Hilarious Lossmail", and promptly blown up by a Maller which is a better laser ship all around.

In fact, the Nightmare is the only really good Sansha ship, but due to the price of the hull doesn't warrant flying outside of Bling Incursion fleets.

I personally can't wait for Fozzie to turn his attention on the faction ships. The Phantasm could be really good for both PvE and PvP. But as it stands with the weak capacitor. Lasers and shield tank don't mix well.
Annihilious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#165 - 2013-03-10 15:09:04 UTC
Pick ANY ship in EVE and someone will say "I remember this ship USED to be way better until CCP nerfed it"...
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#166 - 2013-03-10 15:30:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Viribus wrote:

EDIT: Did I read Ytterbium say that the Dramiel is in a good place? Dramiels are terrible now, the only people that fly them are dudes that've activated their account for the first time in two years and aren't up to speed. They're worse than interceptors for tackle, and lose 1v1s to every other faction frig (except the firetail) , assault frig, and even a few T1 frigs. The Dramiel nerf was really poorly thought-out, instead of addressing the specific things that made the Dramiel OP in the first place (like having both a tracking and falloff bonus, meaning it can't be kited or speed-tanked), you simply made it slightly worse in every way. It's just completely unspecialized and useless now.



AB Dramiels win against every faction frigate and pirate frigate except hookbills and daredevils. They also win against most assault ships and dessies. You don't automattically win but you have the better chances. You fit ab and mwd on them anymore but that extra midslot can be used for a web or td that makes the ship shine.

I have to agree with Ytterbium. Dramiels are ok. Succubus definitely needs work its horrible compared to the dram. The worm seems more of a pve ship. The obvious problem with this class of ships is the succubus. Its just horrible.

edit: not say it couldnt' be tweaked. Give it back its earlier speed and thats fine. It depends how strong they make the succubus and if they boost the worm much.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Kristoffon vonDrake
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#167 - 2013-03-11 12:59:44 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Succubus definitely needs work its horrible compared to the dram. The worm seems more of a pve ship. The obvious problem with this class of ships is the succubus.


Because frigate pve is so popular.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#168 - 2013-03-11 13:16:42 UTC
Kristoffon vonDrake wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Succubus definitely needs work its horrible compared to the dram. The worm seems more of a pve ship. The obvious problem with this class of ships is the succubus.


Because frigate pve is so popular.



?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Kristoffon vonDrake
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#169 - 2013-03-11 14:39:01 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Kristoffon vonDrake wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Succubus definitely needs work its horrible compared to the dram. The worm seems more of a pve ship. The obvious problem with this class of ships is the succubus.


Because frigate pve is so popular.



?

Tell us about your frigate pve exploits Sir
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#170 - 2013-03-11 14:42:28 UTC
He may be talking about FW frigate plex thingies. But honestly, the Worm is pretty unimpressive at PVE too, it's just so lacklustre all round.
Illia Vuilleurmier
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#171 - 2013-03-11 18:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Illia Vuilleurmier
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.

What would be wrong with that?
Nobody has much problems with the fact that the Cynabal is a super Vagabond on steroids (except the fact that it is just *too* good at it) or that the Serpentis ships are basically Gallente ships on steroids with web-bonus-of-doom clearly stepping on the gallente AFs, HACs, and battleships toes, and to some extend Minmatar recons.
Since so many other faction ships compete with AFs and HACs, why would you be uncomfortable with making the Blood Raiders ships competing with Amarr recons?
Illia Vuilleurmier
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#172 - 2013-03-11 18:53:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Illia Vuilleurmier
Damn double post i keep mixing the Edit and Quote buttons :/
Zim69
Zombie Apocalypse Redux
#173 - 2013-03-14 11:57:06 UTC
I like the phantasm, but i think it needs a new role. How about a bonus to command Links? It would make it unique amoung the pirate cruisers. Or bonuses to Ecm or something.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#174 - 2013-03-14 13:14:10 UTC
Zim69 wrote:
I like the phantasm, but i think it needs a new role. How about a bonus to command Links? It would make it unique amoung the pirate cruisers. Or bonuses to Ecm or something.

Or how about just making it work properly, you know, mean laser pewpew ship like the Nightmare.
Would be nice to have a cruiser that could fit beam lasers without having to use some stupid fit!
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#175 - 2013-03-14 20:55:46 UTC
Illia Vuilleurmier wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.

What would be wrong with that?
Nobody has much problems with the fact that the Cynabal is a super Vagabond on steroids (except the fact that it is just *too* good at it) or that the Serpentis ships are basically Gallente ships on steroids with web-bonus-of-doom clearly stepping on the gallente AFs, HACs, and battleships toes, and to some extend Minmatar recons.
Since so many other faction ships compete with AFs and HACs, why would you be uncomfortable with making the Blood Raiders ships competing with Amarr recons?


Trying to make all the ships the same thing but different hulls.


CCPs idea of balance.
Illia Vuilleurmier
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#176 - 2013-03-14 21:22:42 UTC
Because letting some ships being poor at their job for the sake of diversity is a better idea.
Your idea of balance.
Good job with that.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#177 - 2013-03-14 21:25:50 UTC
Illia Vuilleurmier wrote:
Because letting some ships being poor at their job for the sake of diversity is a better idea.
Your idea of balance.
Good job with that.



Did I say that? Or did you just imagine it.
Illia Vuilleurmier
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#178 - 2013-03-14 21:28:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Illia Vuilleurmier
Well you're the one who imagined in the first place i wanted the ashimmu to be a Pilgrim with another shape.

It's particulalry funny coming from someone who flies a Vigilant in its latest video over let's say, a Deimos or a Thorax. Why do you do that? Because it pounds the two former down to the ground, performing simply better, at the very same task.

Why would you complain if the same nice thing happened to the Ashimmu, or the Phantasm, in regard of other ships?
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#179 - 2013-03-14 21:34:11 UTC
Illia Vuilleurmier wrote:
Well you're the one who imagined in the first place i wanted the ashimmu to be a Pilgrim with another shape.


Not really, I was commenting on CCPs recent ship balancing which I disagree with. You are the one that misunderstood.
Toxic Raioin
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#180 - 2013-03-15 00:05:47 UTC
Illia Vuilleurmier wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.

What would be wrong with that?
Nobody has much problems with the fact that the Cynabal is a super Vagabond on steroids (except the fact that it is just *too* good at it) or that the Serpentis ships are basically Gallente ships on steroids with web-bonus-of-doom clearly stepping on the gallente AFs, HACs, and battleships toes, and to some extend Minmatar recons.
Since so many other faction ships compete with AFs and HACs, why would you be uncomfortable with making the Blood Raiders ships competing with Amarr recons?