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Fix NPC AI to not agress the solo PVP'er

Author
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#41 - 2013-02-02 16:03:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
L0rdF1end wrote:
lol and wow, that is all I have to say to a bunch of moronic posts.

Just goes to show how little some of you guys actually understand PVP mechanics.
I'm not even going to go into it because clearly I'll just be wasting my time.

For those that do understand, I feel your pain, back to the blob it is for me it seems.


Let me explain something, When a self proclaimed PVPer decides to hunt and kill other players, who are not only flying ships not fit for PVP, but already in combat with a group of NPC, this while a form of PVP is in every sense of the word, Ganking. While I can agree that at times this can be a lot of fun to do. And has it's place in every MMO. But it is not what I would call real PVP. If it is the only way you can get kills, it demonstrates you lack of PVP skills, and in no way makes you a good or even competent PVPer. To then come on the forums and complain that you need the developers to change PVE mechanics because ganking carebears is to hard, well that is just sad.

I understand that the current NPC A.I. where NPC's attack you when you pop into a carebears mission site or in this case a null bears ratting PLEX. It is not like the entire room switches agro, you are both taking NPCdamage. That seems fair to me. What I do not understand is why this is a problem. You are ganking a ship set up for PVE that most likely already has taken damage, if you time it right. The odds are stacked in your favor, why should it be changed to put the PVE'er at even more of a disadvantage. This is ganking not PVP.

What I would call real PVP is random open world encounters when both sides are looking for a fight. Real PVP is very rarely a fair fight. A 1vs1 in even matched ships is more dueling then true PVP. True PVP takes a lot of skill, while ganking is just a matter of timing, and finding targets you can not lose against. Someone who claims to be a PVPer but can not even pull off a gank, well that is just pathetic.
vanich
Capital Supplies
#42 - 2013-02-03 22:59:14 UTC
L0rdF1end wrote:
This is off the back of another thread which has shown a lot of interest.

I enjoy a lot of solo aspects of Eve game play.
It's due to time I have for the game, I can't always be around to fleet up with friends.
The AI chnages have impacted solo game play.
I would like to see a fix to NPC AI so I do not get agressed by rats in misions/belts or otherwise when I'm trying to kill someone solo.

It's hurting solo playstyle and the AI doesnt actually make any sense at all.

If you want to reach out to solo players this would be a good start.

This could actually be moved to ideas forum, didnt think before posting.

Thanks.


You are not by any chance the idiot who tried to gank me ALONE in an 8/10 with a stealth bomber are you?
L0rdF1end
Gang Bang You're Dead
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#43 - 2013-02-22 15:13:18 UTC
Many multiple threads on this now...still nothing back from CCP.

Can one man make a difference in a sandbox?
If not can a few?
How much louder do we need to shout before CCP hears us?

Is their marketing compaign then just total bollox?
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#44 - 2013-02-22 15:38:13 UTC
I am not sure I understand, so let me try to simplify it:

You don't like it when something you have little to no control over interferes with your game play, and want CCP to do something to about it?

How is that different from carebears wanting some level of protection from PVP, and why is one argument more deserving than the other?

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

L0rdF1end
Gang Bang You're Dead
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#45 - 2013-02-22 17:13:24 UTC
"How is that different from carebears wanting some level of protection from PVP, and why is one argument more deserving than the other"?

Ermmm, because its a snadbox game. You shouldnt have protection from possible PVP.
That already exists in highsec.
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#46 - 2013-02-22 17:15:06 UTC
So in turn nobody deserves protection from NPC's either, after all it's a sandbox. :)

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

L0rdF1end
Gang Bang You're Dead
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#47 - 2013-02-22 17:27:00 UTC  |  Edited by: L0rdF1end
Im not suggesting protection. Im asking for AI that is intelligent.

"So in turn nobody deserves protection from NPC's either, after all it's a sandbox. :) "

Currently the PVE'r has the protection when you land on grid.

So yes, I agree with your statement, no one should have full protection.
If they want to make it completely random then thats fine.
It shouldnt be the last person that lands on grid for a minute and then switch back or to alternative target.

Does that make sense?
X98
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-02-22 17:36:08 UTC
Quote:
Im not suggesting protection. Im asking for AI that is intelligent.


Attacking the enemy that they can kill easier (not fit for PVE) isn't intelligent? I mean, that's the reason you're trying to gank people who already have NPC's attacking them isn't it? They're easier targets?

All I'm seeing is "Please CCP, make it so that the NPC's always help me when I PVP".
L0rdF1end
Gang Bang You're Dead
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#49 - 2013-02-22 17:38:41 UTC
X98 wrote:
Quote:
Im not suggesting protection. Im asking for AI that is intelligent.


Attacking the enemy that they can kill easier (not fit for PVE) isn't intelligent? I mean, that's the reason you're trying to gank people who already have NPC's attacking them isn't it? They're easier targets?

All I'm seeing is "Please CCP, make it so that the NPC's always help me when I PVP".


No you are wrong in your assumption. clearly you are not able to read my post.

I don't want help, just intelligent AI or a fix that doesnt break this part of the game I and others enjoy.
Go back and read the post..at least before posting.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#50 - 2013-02-22 17:53:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
"When I try to gank a PVE player, some of the NPC's in the site attack me instead of helping me gank the PVE'er.

The advantage I already have over the PVE'er by having my ship fitted for PVP, and the PVE'er most likely already having some damage is not enough.

You must change the A.I. to make my fail ganking attempts easier, as it is the only PVP I know how to do, and the current A.I. makes it to hard for me as a fail PVP'er to successfully gank many PVE players."

Despite what you may think OP, this is what I read in your post. If you fail at PVP so bad that you can not even properly gank a PVE fit ship, no amount of changes the developers make can make you a good PVPer without destroying the game for all the non gankers.

What you are doing is NOT solo PVP, it is ganking. While ganking is a type of PVP, it is not encouraged or supported by any game developer in any MMO game, any more than they support hackers using cheats to get ahead. Just because CCP chooses to allow ganking, and not take action to discourage it. Does not mean they are willing to support and encourage it.

Considering that PVE players out number PVP players, even in EVE by about 8 to 1 such a change will never happen. Please stop your crying as my tier bucket is full, and you are making a mess on the floor.
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#51 - 2013-02-22 18:01:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
I get why it's annoying, and almost impossible to acomplish using old techniques.

I have always thought PVP in this manner was empty and without reward, there is no victory beating lame dogs, PVP should be a test of skills and thier application, it should have risks on both sides and have margins for winning decided durring the fight not because the fight was onesided from the start.

I hope that this new AI helps you to find fights that actually test your skills, not simply allow you to take advantage of someones elses lack of tactical knowleged and bad timing.

(Seems my original post didn't copy paste correctly so I corrected it)

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#52 - 2013-02-22 18:08:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
L0rdF1end wrote:
Im not suggesting protection. Im asking for AI that is intelligent.

"So in turn nobody deserves protection from NPC's either, after all it's a sandbox. :) "

Currently the PVE'r has the protection when you land on grid.

So yes, I agree with your statement, no one should have full protection.
If they want to make it completely random then thats fine.
It shouldn't be the last person that lands on grid for a minute and then switch back or to alternative target.

Does that make sense?

mission and ratting sites are set up as NPC territory. The NPC's do not care if you are friends or enemies of the invader they are already fighting, you are invading their space and must be destroyed.

The A.I. bases threat level on ship size, not ship DPS, or who was there first. If a PVE'er is flying a battleship, and you show up in a T2 cruiser all the smaller NPC's will change target to you, as you are the right size in their primary engagement bracket, while the BS is larger than their preferred engagement bracket. The battleships are still attacking the battleship.

If there are two or more ships invading the NPC space, a "smart" NPC cruiser pilot know they will be more effective engaging other cruiser size ships, then engaging a BS.

Just because the NPC A.I. does not work the way you think it should, does not mean it is not working correctly.
X98
Doomheim
#53 - 2013-02-22 18:49:04 UTC  |  Edited by: X98
L0rdF1end wrote:
X98 wrote:
Quote:
Im not suggesting protection. Im asking for AI that is intelligent.


Attacking the enemy that they can kill easier (not fit for PVE) isn't intelligent? I mean, that's the reason you're trying to gank people who already have NPC's attacking them isn't it? They're easier targets?

All I'm seeing is "Please CCP, make it so that the NPC's always help me when I PVP".


No you are wrong in your assumption. clearly you are not able to read my post.

I don't want help, just intelligent AI or a fix that doesnt break this part of the game I and others enjoy.
Go back and read the post..at least before posting.



I'm fully capable of reading your inane post.

Your entire point was that you're getting your knickers all wadded up because when you attempt to get a cheap kill in on someone who is in the process of killing rats (in a PVE ship), the rats target you also. This is ruining your version of "fun". The simply solution is to not jump into a swarm of red crosses hoping to get a cheap kill. You want CCP to cater to your specific style of game play by not letting rats target you. I get it.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#54 - 2013-02-23 20:10:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Maybe you should fit those 1400s to Tempest instead of Apoc?

You clearly need more damage to get your easy kills.

Not helping you "pvper" but simply stating the facts.
Annunaki soldier
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2013-02-24 01:07:27 UTC
as stated many and many times most people actually think that ganging pve ships is pvp , when it has nothing to do with it.

Funny to see tears apearing on the forums ( still believe those people that do it are far from pvp' ers )

Ride hard, live with passion 

Orlacc
#56 - 2013-02-24 02:44:52 UTC
SO you can't blap pve fitted people. Sorry. I am sure you will figure a way around it.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

CyberRaver
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#57 - 2013-02-25 02:46:52 UTC
OP is probably one of the Stealth bomber pilots my alts been killing in her ishtar a lot, no tank all gank and wonder why they lose, seriously use a appropriate ship for the job, the WH guys have been doing it for years and they LOVE they pvp they get

HTFU and adapt like everyone has to, ya dont see anyone crying that the blops changes are bad, making ratters vulnerable, you can throw your "RP" about as much as you like but to the NPC you are a hostile ship on grid, perhaps in league with the guy hes already shooting, in a smaller squishier ship! OF COURSE he should gank you

Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#58 - 2013-02-25 09:35:20 UTC
OP would probably think she could roam through the systems of a NBSI alliance to 'help' them fight their enemies and complain when she gets shot.
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-02-25 12:01:03 UTC
I am not siding with the OP by a long shot, but do take note that NPCs will primary a player ship using electronic warfare. That means once you switch that warp scrambler on, you are now primary for the whole room. If the OP wants the NPC target switching to be fair, then he needs to be complaining about the NPC reaction when a player uses a electronic warfare module.

Just to clear it up, Electronic Warfare includes warp disupters, warp scramblers, stasis webs, ecm, damps, etc. Basically anything that requires the Electronic Warfare skill to use.
Salmon Ella
Exolon Trading
#60 - 2013-02-25 15:39:14 UTC
To be honest I actually agree with the OP, Eve AI is quickly becoming an oxymoron.