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Fix NPC AI to not agress the solo PVP'er

Author
Davith en Divalone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-01-24 15:44:51 UTC
L0rdF1end wrote:
We can adjust, but I'm trying to point out it doesnt fit well under "Intelligent AI" under its current design.

If you mugged a Granny down an alley, and some dude turned up to help out, would you expect the granny to start attacking the person preventing her from being attacked?


If I charged into a restricted military base or operation wearing the wrong uniform or no uniform at all, without proper identification, without the proper pass codes, unregistered with their operations, not in their lines of communication, and not following their engagement doctrines, while armed with a weapon I may have already fired, I'd probably be shot. They may or may not give me an opportunity to surrender first.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-01-25 21:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
L0rdF1end wrote:
This is off the back of another thread which has shown a lot of interest.

I enjoy a lot of solo aspects of Eve game play.
It's due to time I have for the game, I can't always be around to fleet up with friends.
The AI chnages have impacted solo game play.
I would like to see a fix to NPC AI so I do not get agressed by rats in misions/belts or otherwise when I'm trying to kill someone solo.

It's hurting solo playstyle and the AI doesnt actually make any sense at all.

If you want to reach out to solo players this would be a good start.

This could actually be moved to ideas forum, didnt think before posting.

Thanks.

As for your proposal, most definitely NO.

Now if you want to do solo *cough cough* PvP action, then just go to low security. That's what it was originally intended for anyway.


DMC
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#23 - 2013-01-25 21:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: CausticS0da
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
L0rdF1end wrote:
This is off the back of another thread which has shown a lot of interest.

I enjoy a lot of solo aspects of Eve game play.
It's due to time I have for the game, I can't always be around to fleet up with friends.
The AI chnages have impacted solo game play.
I would like to see a fix to NPC AI so I do not get agressed by rats in misions/belts or otherwise when I'm trying to kill someone solo.

It's hurting solo playstyle and the AI doesnt actually make any sense at all.

If you want to reach out to solo players this would be a good start.

This could actually be moved to ideas forum, didnt think before posting.

Thanks.

As for your proposal, most definitely NO.

Now if you want to do solo *cough cough* PvP action, then just go to low security. That's what it was originally intended for anyway.


DMC


Unless I am mistaken OP IS TALKING ABOUT SOLO IN LOW AND NUL SEC - specifically ganking sanctum runners etc. He is making a valid point that makes more sense in terms of artificial intelligence. If someone is slaughtering you and someone else comes and attacks them you're more likely to see them as a temporary ally.

I think the people rejecting the thread just don't understand what the OP is saying - must be. To the person that thinks hunting enemy BS in hostile territory is 'non-risk' all i can say is an emphatic 'lol'.
L0rdF1end
Gang Bang You're Dead
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#24 - 2013-01-25 23:43:07 UTC
CausticS0da wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
L0rdF1end wrote:
This is off the back of another thread which has shown a lot of interest.

I enjoy a lot of solo aspects of Eve game play.
It's due to time I have for the game, I can't always be around to fleet up with friends.
The AI chnages have impacted solo game play.
I would like to see a fix to NPC AI so I do not get agressed by rats in misions/belts or otherwise when I'm trying to kill someone solo.

It's hurting solo playstyle and the AI doesnt actually make any sense at all.

If you want to reach out to solo players this would be a good start.

This could actually be moved to ideas forum, didnt think before posting.

Thanks.

As for your proposal, most definitely NO.

Now if you want to do solo *cough cough* PvP action, then just go to low security. That's what it was originally intended for anyway.


DMC


Unless I am mistaken OP IS TALKING ABOUT SOLO IN LOW AND NUL SEC - specifically ganking sanctum runners etc. He is making a valid point that makes more sense in terms of artificial intelligence. If someone is slaughtering you and someone else comes and attacks them you're more likely to see them as a temporary ally.

I think the people rejecting the thread just don't understand what the OP is saying - must be. To the person that thinks hunting enemy BS in hostile territory is 'non-risk' all i can say is an emphatic 'lol'.


Thankfully finally someone gets it.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-01-26 00:12:40 UTC
L0rdF1end wrote:


Thankfully finally someone gets it.


Get what? 1337 pvpers sense of entitlement? As in "I'm entitled to free rat dps against already riskless pve fit without a point."

I want my free km NOW!Pirate
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#26 - 2013-01-26 01:09:14 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
L0rdF1end wrote:


Thankfully finally someone gets it.


Get what? 1337 pvpers sense of entitlement? As in "I'm entitled to free rat dps against already riskless pve fit without a point."

I want my free km NOW!Pirate


Lol free KM. are we even playing the same game?
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-01-26 06:49:38 UTC
CausticS0da wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
L0rdF1end wrote:
This is off the back of another thread which has shown a lot of interest.

I enjoy a lot of solo aspects of Eve game play.
It's due to time I have for the game, I can't always be around to fleet up with friends.
The AI chnages have impacted solo game play.
I would like to see a fix to NPC AI so I do not get agressed by rats in misions/belts or otherwise when I'm trying to kill someone solo.

It's hurting solo playstyle and the AI doesnt actually make any sense at all.

If you want to reach out to solo players this would be a good start.

This could actually be moved to ideas forum, didnt think before posting.

Thanks.

As for your proposal, most definitely NO.

Now if you want to do solo *cough cough* PvP action, then just go to low security. That's what it was originally intended for anyway.


DMC


Unless I am mistaken OP IS TALKING ABOUT SOLO IN LOW AND NUL SEC - specifically ganking sanctum runners etc. He is making a valid point that makes more sense in terms of artificial intelligence. If someone is slaughtering you and someone else comes and attacks them you're more likely to see them as a temporary ally.

I think the people rejecting the thread just don't understand what the OP is saying - must be. To the person that thinks hunting enemy BS in hostile territory is 'non-risk' all i can say is an emphatic 'lol'.


He didn't specify the system security status (high, low, null) and for the record, I don't give a rat's butt which system security status he's talking about. The change he is proposing would affect all NPC's regardless of the system security status.

Besides that, what he's asking is to have NPC's exclude PvP fit's and just target PvE fits, much to his benefit..

As I said before, most definitely NO.

The NPC AI is working as intended, attacking the easiest target available. Maybe PvP pilots should start fitting up their ships like PvE players before invading NPC sites looking for an easy killmail.

If the OP is indeed flying round in null security systems, then he's probably surrounded by 'Blues' which definitely makes him much safer than the solo high sec mission runner.
L0rdF1end
Gang Bang You're Dead
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#28 - 2013-01-28 10:19:28 UTC
Quote:


If the OP is indeed flying round in null security systems, then he's probably surrounded by 'Blues' which definitely makes him much safer than the solo high sec mission runner.


You want to come play in my neck of the woods lol.

Yes I'm talking about Null.

Yes i'm talking about solo players.

No I am not sorrounded by blue as that would remove target opportunity.

My playstyle isnt the everyday playstyle so I understand why some people do not understand.
Catching people in a plex or belt is my style of PVP, it's what I enjoy,hit and run.
For those that say "Do Real PVP". I'm afriad it doesnt work like that. Sure I could go get myself blobbed by attempting to take someone on solo where the target expects a fight. Targets of that type are far too eager to call in their friends and fight me 10-1.

I live in Null with very few allies and its just the way I like it.
I'd like to be able to enjoy ganking people in plexes and missions as I did before.
Ikonia
Royal Amarr Expeditions
#29 - 2013-01-28 12:05:16 UTC
Hehe, so far to AI and logic of this game.

No solo PVP - anyway since years.
Thanks to AI a PVEer now has more chances to win, because PVPer arent fitted for tanking rats, and due to EWAR of rats a carebear doesnt even need it equipped. The rats scram, web, damp on huuuuge distances by far better than any player toon, and the additional firepower is great :)

Sounds nice, but in fact, it is really screwed up. I prefered it the way it was before much more :(
Podarce
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-01-30 13:45:31 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Let's see

HTFU

Adapt

Fit a bigger tank

It actually makes more sense than an AI that would completely ignore a potentially hostile ship on grid.

It's one thing when carebears shed tears and whine. It's just sad to see a PVP'r do it.

Its hard to call pvper misisonair ganker:P
Darius Brannock
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-01-31 00:59:08 UTC
So OP just wants PVE tears without any risk....too bad. Looks like you will have to take a chance on having a few tears of your own...deal with it OP.
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#32 - 2013-01-31 02:03:22 UTC
Took me a little while to find it, https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=173400&p=2 I was pretty sure this was comming when the PVP'ers were trolling the PVE'ers on the new AI, with a standard comment bieng HTFU and learn to PVP,

So here we are we've come full circle. Now instead of HTFU they are crying 'foul'.

Dont need to follow the link I copy paste it below.

Posted 2012.11.20

I for one am looking forward to the change. Might not be so good on the drones, I might even have to keep a few extra lights and less mediums in the drone bay but I look forward to the next time some stealthy bomber or ‘whatever’ warps into a group of NPC’s I am ratting, or and tries the old Scram/Blam on a mission runner.

As we all know PVP fits don’t work in missions any better than Mission fits work in PVP. I foresee the inevitable uncloaked ship going for the easy kill of a mission boat and having the entire room switch to the new cruiser/frig on the field, no more waiting for a new spawn and hope they get the agro.

The Tears should not be coming from Missions runners, the real tears should be coming from the Gank fits that will now have to tank the room same as me while they try to get to shiny Mission runner or Ratting alts mods.


So it just goes to show the truth in 'You can please some of the people some of the time, none of the people all of the time'

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Annunaki soldier
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-01-31 08:26:59 UTC
i agree with goldiee . Following these forums i seen many times pvp's trolling on pve complains. So now its the best time to say adapt to it etc. Getting free kills (because if you do needed before to actually pvp you would be searching for pvp fitted ships as many people that do respect do ) with the help of npc is over. It is still viable to do , just with a bit more expensive ship . If you use recons they can still do their job , you just have to time it correct.

But i do admire that on the forumes best tears pvp tears so far especially for the risk free part of changes

Ride hard, live with passion 

Enaya Wendos
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-01-31 16:00:29 UTC
L0rdF1end wrote:
This is off the back of another thread which has shown a lot of interest.

I enjoy a lot of solo aspects of Eve game play.
It's due to time I have for the game, I can't always be around to fleet up with friends.
The AI chnages have impacted solo game play.
I would like to see a fix to NPC AI so I do not get agressed by rats in misions/belts or otherwise when I'm trying to kill someone solo.

It's hurting solo playstyle and the AI doesnt actually make any sense at all.

If you want to reach out to solo players this would be a good start.

This could actually be moved to ideas forum, didnt think before posting.

Thanks.


Stop being a pussy and man up. So it's ok for him to be shot by rats whilst YOU instigate PVP, but as soon as the rats start shooting you it's suddenly unfair?

The target YOU chose is already taking damage, most likely at a disadvantage already being fit for PVE and you still need more. Why don't you just go back to Wow....
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#35 - 2013-01-31 18:03:24 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:

It's one thing when carebears shed tears and whine. It's just sad to see a PVP'r do it.

If he was a PVPer he would not be crying.

To the OP I say;
If the only way you can successfully gank a carebear is when you have NPC rats helping you kill them then your fail at PVP in every possible way.

Killing carebears while they are running missions is not PVP it is Ganking, while Ganking is a form of PVP, and a form of game play in itself, is is not the same thing.

Comparing ganking carebears to real PVP is like comparing skiing/snow boarding at the local bunny hill to doing so in the Alps. Going down the bunny hill 5000 times will not prepare you for what you will face in the Alps, but if you are really bored it can pass the time...

CCP will not change mechanics to stop you from scanning down and ganking carebear mission runners, but they also will not change mechanics to make doing so even easier than it is now.

If you are so bad at PVP that you have to resort to ganking carebears to get kills then you have no business calling yourself a PVPer, you are just a Ganker.

If you fail at Ganking so bad, that you come on the forums and cry for CCP to make Ganking easier then I am sorry there is just no hope for you.

Did you find running missions and carebearing to hard? So you decided to try Ganking as your primary profession? If you had any level of PVP skill, Ganking carebears would not be a problem for you.

L0rdF1end
Gang Bang You're Dead
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#36 - 2013-02-01 10:52:32 UTC
lol and wow, that is all I have to say to a bunch of moronic posts.

Just goes to show how little some of you guys actually understand PVP mechanics.
I'm not even going to go into it because clearly I'll just be wasting my time.

For those that do understand, I feel your pain, back to the blob it is for me it seems.
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-02-01 15:26:38 UTC
L0rdF1end wrote:
It's hurting solo playstyle and the AI doesnt actually make any sense at all.

Waaaah. When they make NPCs stop shooting drones, then you'll have my vote for making NPCs stop shooting you.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?

Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
#38 - 2013-02-01 16:41:19 UTC
Elite PvP = PvP&E

Noted.

"I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion."

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#39 - 2013-02-01 21:38:29 UTC
The other day I went after bait, both of us got aggressed, no complaints on my part, added to the fun and uncertainty. Now I understand the OP's problem, lets analyse it he was going into CA's with a SB and pointing them and adding his DPS to the rats so he can take down the ratter, before it was easy, but now the frigate and cruiser rats switch to him and he pops, this has made his tactics no longer viable. Because most people warp out as soon as a neutral or red comes in system he cannot time it, he has to grab them there or then, now he gets popped. I understand his issue, however I don't agree with it being changed back to how it was, I like it now. He needs to sit down and think again what you do, but one thing is possible, people may become complacent due to the added layer of protection, but its no longer easy for camping SB's and that is a good thing...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#40 - 2013-02-02 08:48:53 UTC
There's an awful lot of 'solo' mentioned in the OP.

Maybe you should try and actually solo for once.

Let me guess, you've never actually engaged a target before, unless it was already under fire. Probably never engaged something that wasn't a PvE fit?

If you can't kill a PvE fit with no ewar, exactly knowing what damage profile they are tanked for, while under split NPC fire, then... Roll

They did fix NPC AI. They fixed it so it wasn't so loopsided and entirely to the benefit of the attacker. HTFU.