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Removal of passive resist bonus on shield/armour hardeners

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Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#281 - 2013-02-16 23:59:26 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
So if you do decide to do this, then remove the sig radius penalty on shields then!!!


Why?

Increased shield put more energy out therefore easier to target/shoot at etc. Duh!

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#282 - 2013-02-17 00:08:26 UTC
Noddy Comet wrote:

Perhaps you should use less oxygen hyperventilating over carebears and think for a second yourself, this thread is full of those who trained these skills for something that is being taken away (The passive resist on ACTIVE hardeners that has been available for years)
Again, how are these skills worth a damn now to those who solely trained them for the reason that is being removed.,... ACTIVE shield tankers??

They are not.

We are now stuck with 4 skills trained to lvl 5 for something we will most likely never even use now.

But please, blame it on the careberars and anyone who doesn't play in the sandbox according to your rules rather than a stupid nerf ending up with worthless skills taking up clone costs now.
I'm sure the community will be just as empathetic when the stealth nerfbat comes around and hits an entire skill set you took the time to train to lvl 5 and is now just as worthless.


LOL DILLIGAF around carebears wishing that they are going to have to adapt to a change in skill bonus application.

It is one of the fundamental differences in shield v armour tanking.
Shield has ACTIVE omni resists and PASSIVE regen.
Armour has PASSIVE onmi resists and ACTIVE regen.

Once again you are asking to use a PASSIVE focussed skill to enhance an ACTIVE module. This has been mentioned before that making modules more focused is a goal so that fitting a ship is one of compromise and benefit matching. The PASSIVE component to ACTIVE modules goes against that principle.

Get over it and adapt. Or just up and quit I DGAF

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Tolkenmoon
Hogan's Heroes
#283 - 2013-02-17 11:34:03 UTC
Also just realised the same has happened to active armour hardeners aswell.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#284 - 2013-02-17 14:21:02 UTC
so what happens in wormholes in incursions where you need omni resists?

Art of Explosions
AxeMan2
Babylonsbeast
#285 - 2013-02-17 16:24:22 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Noddy Comet wrote:

Perhaps you should use less oxygen hyperventilating over carebears and think for a second yourself, this thread is full of those who trained these skills for something that is being taken away (The passive resist on ACTIVE hardeners that has been available for years)
Again, how are these skills worth a damn now to those who solely trained them for the reason that is being removed.,... ACTIVE shield tankers??

They are not.

We are now stuck with 4 skills trained to lvl 5 for something we will most likely never even use now.

But please, blame it on the careberars and anyone who doesn't play in the sandbox according to your rules rather than a stupid nerf ending up with worthless skills taking up clone costs now.
I'm sure the community will be just as empathetic when the stealth nerfbat comes around and hits an entire skill set you took the time to train to lvl 5 and is now just as worthless.


LOL DILLIGAF around carebears wishing that they are going to have to adapt to a change in skill bonus application.

It is one of the fundamental differences in shield v armour tanking.
Shield has ACTIVE omni resists and PASSIVE regen.
Armour has PASSIVE onmi resists and ACTIVE regen.

Once again you are asking to use a PASSIVE focussed skill to enhance an ACTIVE module. This has been mentioned before that making modules more focused is a goal so that fitting a ship is one of compromise and benefit matching. The PASSIVE component to ACTIVE modules goes against that principle.

Get over it and adapt. Or just up and quit I DGAF



First off Tao, you keep useing the word 'carebear' like you are better than someone, or like you know what you are saying.
The fact is, most carebears fit RAT SPECIFIC resists, and they are not the pilots that are hurt by this. The pilots that are hurt are generally going to be pure PvP fits. Especially pilots who try and shield fit their Armor ships. This stealth nerf hurts PvP pilots the most.

Second Tao, You are a frigate pilot in faction wars. You probably are not even qualified to post in big boy threads, based on your history of fights, fits, and experience.

Lastly Tao, You do look like you give a ****, you just don't look like you know what your talking about.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#286 - 2013-02-17 17:02:42 UTC
AxeMan2 has hit the nail on the head in terms of the impact, as did those people who quite rightly pointed out that shields need a similar module now to the Energised Adaptive Nano Membrane II. It really screws over the use of Thorax's and Talos's and weakens severely any shield ship that uses weapons that require cap, it destroyes the benefit of training up compensation skills to 5 which is what I had done for this passive bonus, it massively buffs neuting ships and they have just effectively destoyed a whole lot of usable fittings.

I am expecting a lage number of pimped Incursions ships to get destroyed after this is implemented...

Furthermore the impact on the Chimera is immense, I cannot even bring myself to use it, because I cannot fit it to fight with it, it is impossible without a similar module to the EAMN, as of now I am changing my whole training plan to train up an Archon.

This is exactly the type of action that fits with the attitude that a long term and now ex-Eve player had of CCP, I had not really seen it before, but now I do.

I designed and ran a PBEM game and I would never have implemented a change like that as a minor change, wow!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Demolishar
United Aggression
#287 - 2013-02-17 19:15:48 UTC
OH NO MY 15% BONUS THAT I GET WHEN I'M NEUTED OUT AND GOING TO DIE ANYWAY IS GONE, WHAT WILL I DO?
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#288 - 2013-02-17 19:28:26 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
OH NO MY 15% BONUS THAT I GET WHEN I'M NEUTED OUT AND GOING TO DIE ANYWAY IS GONE, WHAT WILL I DO?


die faster?

wumbo
Shoto Tadeka
Perkone
Caldari State
#289 - 2013-02-17 21:57:12 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
I love how many armchair coders and game devs are out there.

The issues around the coding and whatnot just brought it to their attention. And once there they realised what a stoooopid idea it was to have PASSIVE bonus on an ACTIVE module.


You carebear whiney fucks just need to HTFU and get over yourselves!


I think the tears are not coming from the carebears this time my friend.......

Heres my take on this, may as well since all the other yokels have piped up.


Coming from a carebear and pvp point.

As a carebear misison / plex runner it does not affect me (or I reckon 99.9% of other carebears in the slightest) as I do the following
  • Active tank for misison / plex not containing neuts
  • Passive tank for mission / plex containing neuts



As a pvp role.

Adapt to the new situation and pick one of the following.

  1. ACTIVE
  2. PASSIVE
  3. I WANT BOTH
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#290 - 2013-02-17 22:40:32 UTC
Crash Lander wrote:
The biggest effect this will have, will be on ganking people in highsec that forget to turn their mods on when jumping/undocking; and and that's not an insignificant change. What?


Every cloud has a silver lining Cool

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#291 - 2013-02-17 23:00:31 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Furthermore the impact on the Chimera is immense, I cannot even bring myself to use it, because I cannot fit it to fight with it...


Armor fit it, plug slaves. Problem solved?

Lol

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#292 - 2013-02-17 23:22:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Castelo Selva wrote:
Well, well, well... The real problem now is not that “the active hardeners no longer have the passive resist element, and that change are going live to TQ without any official CCP note about it (aka stealth nerf)” but about the usefulness or not of the compensation skills.


Those are great skills to get for other purpose than the passive 15% without stacking you get from an off line invuln.
LVL5 compensation skills+OGB+off line invulns: something is wrong here, it's either active or passive, not both.

Quote:
For some play base this change do not meaning nothing, but for other player base this change all they play style. So, the real question is if the compensation skills should be reimbursed or not, because it´s a set of lvl 5 skills that become obsolete.


Compensation skills are useful and there's no reason to reimburse those skills. Will this change some specific fits?-hope so.
It's good for the game and keep smarter players entertained finding new fits and tactics.

Quote:
I think that the fair is that should be a one time question at login asking if you want to be reimbursed or not, and this solve all problem. The one who are affected by the usefulness of the skill are reimbursed, and the one who want to keep it are ok either.


Compensation skills are useful, point blank.

Quote:
And, of course, better communication between CCP and the player base are always welcome (no more stealth nerfs). Remember, I did not said no more changes, but no more unannounced changes, please.


They're getting better each year at communicating with players but not perfect in every situation, while I agree this could have been communicated differently, there's not that much to fuss about. Far too much panic for nothing.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#293 - 2013-02-17 23:28:48 UTC
Axe and Drac

I am predominently a small ship pilot yes. And I have already mentioned in a lot of my post that I don't comment on the effects in relation to big ships. As for my ability to post in 'Big boy' threads?! Get over yourself. 'Big boys' often get owned by us little men Twisted And I have been playing since day 1 of eve and been active in every size of fighting/conflict in game. Just because this character is only a couple of years old don't assume you now my entire background in eve.

However I did assume that most of the people complainng about this were 'carebears'. I geenrally don't use the term as an insult and I appologise for the few times it has come across as one. I have good personal friends who are by their own definition 'carebears'. It is a playstyle just as pirate or explorer is.

Now i see that it is the pvp'ers whineing about this. To that I say then I probably has just as much if not more of an opinion to post on the subject than if it was the carebears.

To the pvp'ers complaining I say HTFU. My eirlier comments on the PASSIVE v ACTIVE nature of the skills/bonus' are even more valid in pvp. You fit to do a job. One fit is not supposed to do it all. GET OVER IT AND ADAPT.

Stop whining and giving pvp'ers a bad name!

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Maggeridon Thoraz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#294 - 2013-02-18 11:34:09 UTC
from the patchnotes for tomorrow :
Quote:
Active armor hardeners and shield hardeners no longer give a passive resistance bonus when not active.
Armor and shield compensation skills no longer give any bonus to active armor or shield hardeners.



these mods dont get boni if active nor passive now . as i interprete this 2 phrases. when are these skills now becoming relevant. this description is totally confusing
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#295 - 2013-02-18 12:01:11 UTC
Maggeridon Thoraz wrote:
from the patchnotes for tomorrow :
Quote:
Active armor hardeners and shield hardeners no longer give a passive resistance bonus when not active.
Armor and shield compensation skills no longer give any bonus to active armor or shield hardeners.



these mods dont get boni if active nor passive now . as i interprete this 2 phrases. when are these skills now becoming relevant. this description is totally confusing


Well it looks like they are just going to do it, such is life, but at least they are telling people which is a plus point, but the description is clear because the compensation skills only affected the passive bonus of active hardeners. Anyway its a massive buff to neuting ships, so thats going to be fun, thankfully I have all those skills so tally ho.


Tao, you seem to want to engage with me on this, in terms of Axe's comment, my backing of his comment was in regards to which ships it had the biggest impact on, though I do still think the Talos is viable, his comments aimed at your style of play or your comments on this thread have no interest for me whatsoever. Your own comments have done the talking for you, I don't need to add anything to them, rather like when I let off steam on this in terms of the signature radius penalty on shields, perhaps shields will get some skill along the lines of armour honeycombing, or perhaps not which is the point I was trying to make. No matter what your comments are, the fact is that without a passive module covering all resists for shields, the neuting of shield ships is going to be a lot more effective. That CCP decided to do this knowing full well that the passive bonus was originally added to nerf neuting shows that they are likely to want this to stop people using shields on armour ships and use the new armour modules. The knock on effects of this are profound in some areas, while a Chimera is not really a very effective PvP carrier, it can be fitted for PvP for when you get caught, however the fit now has to be based on passive modules and nerf's its tank by around 8% on the best fit I could come out with, however its acceptable. Like always I will sort out my new tactics around the current situation, however I am sad to not be able to use a couple of ships in their full glory now that this is being applied tomorrow. Have fun...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#296 - 2013-02-18 13:18:47 UTC
Only ships affected by this tweak are capital ships, and these have plenty of slots to fit resist amplifiers, which are better when neuted dry than hardeners (way better), and can refit in space when they have a buddy (and if alone and neuted, they are screwed anyway).

These cries are only for the sake of crying IMO.
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#297 - 2013-02-18 13:31:44 UTC
well this is a surprise, so the skills that made outneuted invuls somewhat useful are pretty useless now. wouldn't advise anyone to train the shield ones now.

i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#298 - 2013-02-18 15:54:27 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Only ships affected by this tweak are capital ships, and these have plenty of slots to fit resist amplifiers, which are better when neuted dry than hardeners (way better), and can refit in space when they have a buddy (and if alone and neuted, they are screwed anyway).

These cries are only for the sake of crying IMO.


Wrong!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#299 - 2013-02-18 16:40:05 UTC
The key question is:

What will you LOSE now, to properly fit a shield tank with the EM hole covered. The fact that you lose anything should make it clear that shield tanks have been nerfed.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#300 - 2013-02-18 16:45:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Inkarr Hashur
RavenPaine wrote:
The key question is:

What will you LOSE now, to properly fit a shield tank with the EM hole covered. The fact that you lose anything should make it clear that shield tanks have been nerfed.


This just in! Shield ships further encouraged to throw on an EM rig. Some inside sources claim this is what most people have already been doing anyway since forever ago. Angry players call the change, quote, "a nerf". More breaking news at 11!

Maggeridon Thoraz wrote:
from the patchnotes for tomorrow :
Quote:
Active armor hardeners and shield hardeners no longer give a passive resistance bonus when not active.
Armor and shield compensation skills no longer give any bonus to active armor or shield hardeners.



these mods dont get boni if active nor passive now . as i interprete this 2 phrases. when are these skills now becoming relevant. this description is totally confusing

I could have sworn the current implementation of hardeners on live allows their passive resist bonus when they are off, to benefit from armor and shield compensation skills.