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Hide your ISK, Team Security is out of control. (Allegedly)

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Finde learth
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#361 - 2013-02-12 18:02:05 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Finde learth wrote:
Why don't the 14 days ban appear with removal of ISK ?


They do. It didn't apply in this case. This was explained in my first post.


You mention it's an error. But if John don't sell all assets, will CCP still confiscate all his assets and ISK just because he got 14 days ban?
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#362 - 2013-02-12 18:02:35 UTC
This thread is silly, all year long we are treated to "CCP y u no ban botters!?!?" threads and then when they do ban a botter someone throws a fit about not being entitled to all the standards & practices.

.
Voyan Ageri
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2013-02-12 18:04:22 UTC
Here's a thought - maybe if you actually played the game rather than writing scripts to do things for you, mean old Sreegs wouldn't come and take away all your iskies. Roll
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#364 - 2013-02-12 18:04:32 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
Eve Uni and its leadership are showing their arse with this nonsense. Reading the thread fully on their website I am embarrassed for them as a whole over their responses.

The thing is, backing a corpmate, even if guilty, is something I could understand, but the pettiness of fighting and making unfounded accusations only driven by greed for dirty isk, is just too much for a corporation that makes a living off of portraying a benevolence to the greater Eve community.

No one should donate to Eve Uni until there is a leadership purge.


I'm actually considering blogging about this for my mere 85 unique visitors. I've been lazy (and not actually logging on) since mid December & they deserve better than that.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Wey'oun
#365 - 2013-02-12 18:04:35 UTC
i dont get all the confusion and rage towards ccp here. a botter got banned, ccp made a mistake by not taking isk immediately which was rectified a few weeks later. story should end here.

Give the guys a break. i mean.. they may be Icelandic, but they still technically human(ish) and **** happens. People make mistakes!!!! Just be glad that this is visable proof that botters are being hunted down and killed(biomassed) :D next stop russia!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#366 - 2013-02-12 18:07:09 UTC
To the people who think that ccp owes EVE-Uni some kind of special access "because they had the 300 bil", what world do you live in.

IRL I've had situations where I've had to confiscate stolen property from someone who "bought" it. They all said the same thing: "who is gonna give me my money back" to which I answer "well you could try to sue the offender civilly, or apply to the state victims assistance plan" (I tell them the last part to make the feel better, victim assistance usually only pays out to victims of violent or domestic violence crimes).

Sometimes, things are just tough, and "receiving stolen goods" ius a real life crime in my places. Sorry, it might not be your fault, you might not know the stuff was stolen, them's the breaks.

In this case, all CCP had to do was say "this isk is from botting, sorry". Since they did that, case closed.

--

Another way this case matches my own IRL experiences is in the reactions of uninvolved people and how they blame the wrong party. When something like this happens IRL , people focus on the police response, totally forgetting that one criminal and his poor decisions set the whole thing in motion.

"John" decided to bot (did he petition to see if the programs he used were ok with ccp BEFORE using them?). "John" got caught. "John" decided to give ill-gotten gains to a 3rd party. Conclusion of some brilliant people in this thread? CCP is at fault, and "john" and eve-uni are somehow innocent victims.

That's just dumb. "John" is the only person responsible for any of this.
Onyx Nyx
The Veldspar Protectorate
#367 - 2013-02-12 18:07:41 UTC
This thread totally saved my evening!

Had planned a movie night with the missus. Plans got canned. :(

I just threw the popcorn into the micro and now I am going to spam F5!

Cheers guys.

I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more.

  • Richard (http://www.lfgcomic.com/)
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#368 - 2013-02-12 18:08:02 UTC
I don't know whats more incredible; that I read the whole thread, or that the only thing to comment on is that CCP Sreegs has excellent BBCode editing skills.

Thank you for your good work CCP. Eve is a great place to hang out and spend some time.
Prince Kobol
#369 - 2013-02-12 18:08:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Voyan Ageri wrote:
Here's a thought - maybe if you actually played the game rather than writing scripts to do things for you, mean old Sreegs wouldn't come and take away all your iskies. Roll


So are you saying that that nobody in TEST uses scripts or that any of the myriad of tools TEST uses involves scripts in anyway shape or form?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#370 - 2013-02-12 18:08:13 UTC
Voyan Ageri wrote:
Here's a thought - maybe if you actually played the game rather than writing scripts to do things for you, mean old Sreegs wouldn't come and take away all your iskies. Roll


How dare you suggest PLAYING EVE? Down you you and TEST!
Black Death Jasmine
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#371 - 2013-02-12 18:10:15 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:

If you read my posts you might have noticed that I am not defending the botter.

My posts centered around three issues

(1) CCP IA being part of the security team rather than standing outside the company's regular hierarchies. As I pointed out before it is standard to have Internal Investigations report directly to the board of directors, CCP having their IA team report to some middle management dude is highly unusual and highlights the weak position of CCP IA.
CCP Sreegs chose to address this point with ridicule implying that employees at other companies (who follow best practices) are "unemployable" and not trustworthy.


Having worked in internal investigations for over a decade at very large companies I can inform you from experience that this statement is patently false in common practice. I've actually never even heard of this scenario, though I agree with its spirit.


1- IA Is almost always under the president, not the board of directors. Anyone with the basic understanding of corporate structure would know this.

2 - Where CCP puts their IA doesn't really matter as long as the IA is working as intended, which in this case it is. CCP could, and probably does, put IA under the HR department because it directly related to employees and their relation to the company.

3 - CCP Sreegs is not in a position to move the IA anywhere based on the advice from someone from the internets. He is also probably annoyed that this is even an issue. Botters and non-PLEX RMT get their money taken. That's been their policy for forever.

4 - If E-UNI is afraid all of their money is going to be taken away because they're taking donations from suspected, or even provable botters / RMT traders, perhaps it would be in the best interest of E-UNI to audit their donor lists and only accept funds from people who didn't come off a 14-day ban?

5 - When Goons are siding with CCP you know you don't have a case. Roll

Forever T-Ara LeeSsang ♥ Waffles♥
Beckie DeLey
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#372 - 2013-02-12 18:11:09 UTC
We need a bit more drama in here.

So when will Kelduum resign from CSM? I mean, a CSM chairman that has been voted for by thousands of players has been kicked for less, so why not?

My siren's name is Brick and she is the prettiest.
Callie Cross
Tax Code
#373 - 2013-02-12 18:12:24 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Sometimes, things are just tough, and "receiving stolen goods" ius a real life crime in my places. Sorry, it might not be your fault, you might not know the stuff was stolen, them's the breaks.

In this case, all CCP had to do was say "this isk is from botting, sorry". Since they did that, case closed.



Since you want to bring "IRL" into it. Pretty sure this is real life however. If a family member wills you $1 million USD on death, and the government discovers that $300k was earned illegally. They don't take $1 million, they take the illegally earned portion. If you read the OP, you will see this is what Kelduum was asking about. He asked if all had to be taken.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#374 - 2013-02-12 18:12:50 UTC
Finde learth wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Finde learth wrote:
Why don't the 14 days ban appear with removal of ISK ?


They do. It didn't apply in this case. This was explained in my first post.


You mention it's an error. But if John don't sell all assets, will CCP still confiscate all his assets and ISK just because he got 14 days ban?

they'd have confiscated all of the ones derived from his market botting which is almost certainly 99.5%+

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#375 - 2013-02-12 18:13:46 UTC
thats how market botting (or legit market trading) works it's taking a small seed and using what is essentially compound interest to accumulate isk

the only legit money there would be that seed and that's so small in 317b that its insignificantly minute and not worth accounting for

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#376 - 2013-02-12 18:16:49 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:

Sreegs also said Kelduum was made aware of three facts:

1) The petition had been escalated to me which is the highest point possible of escalation
2) The isk was taken because it was made illegally
3) We don't discuss information about why other people have been banned with anyone but the people in question

I know this because in some cases I said it to him directly and in others it was part of a petition reply. As I stated the outrage about a lack of information is completely fabricated as all of the above information was given and that's absolutely all that should have been given. After multiple attempts to explain the same information petitions are closed as the case has come to a conclusion. Not liking the answer is not the absence of an answer.

The notion that we have no oversight is also patently false. On the EVE project I report to the Executive Producer for EVE Online. This has been made known to the CSM in past visits but given that the CSM opted not to receive a security presentation this time around perhaps there could be some misunderstanding on their part regarding how we are structured.

Will we see a thread next that Hilmar has no oversight? At what level is oversight acceptable? A director? A VP? At what level is complete fabrication designed specifically to cause my team and my company's reputation harm acceptable?


Oh god, this is one of the best posts I've ever read. If I could like it ten thousand times, I would.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
michael chasseur
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#377 - 2013-02-12 18:16:59 UTC
the sheer volume of Unista buttmad in this thread is pleasing to my eyes
Wescro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#378 - 2013-02-12 18:17:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Wescro
I regret starting this thread. Please stop posting here. The matter seems resolved to me. Cheers CCP Sreegs.

http://crossingzebras.com/2013/02/17/csm8ripardteg/
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#379 - 2013-02-12 18:17:40 UTC
Black Death Jasmine wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:

If you read my posts you might have noticed that I am not defending the botter.

My posts centered around three issues

(1) CCP IA being part of the security team rather than standing outside the company's regular hierarchies. As I pointed out before it is standard to have Internal Investigations report directly to the board of directors, CCP having their IA team report to some middle management dude is highly unusual and highlights the weak position of CCP IA.
CCP Sreegs chose to address this point with ridicule implying that employees at other companies (who follow best practices) are "unemployable" and not trustworthy.


Having worked in internal investigations for over a decade at very large companies I can inform you from experience that this statement is patently false in common practice. I've actually never even heard of this scenario, though I agree with its spirit.


1- IA Is almost always under the president, not the board of directors. Anyone with the basic understanding of corporate structure would know this.

2 - Where CCP puts their IA doesn't really matter as long as the IA is working as intended, which in this case it is. CCP could, and probably does, put IA under the HR department because it directly related to employees and their relation to the company.

3 - CCP Sreegs is not in a position to move the IA anywhere based on the advice from someone from the internets. He is also probably annoyed that this is even an issue. Botters and non-PLEX RMT get their money taken. That's been their policy for forever.

4 - If E-UNI is afraid all of their money is going to be taken away because they're taking donations from suspected, or even provable botters / RMT traders, perhaps it would be in the best interest of E-UNI to audit their donor lists and only accept funds from people who didn't come off a 14-day ban?

5 - When Goons are siding with CCP you know you don't have a case. Roll


I've worked on internal investigations for over a decade. I have never reported to anyone more senior than a CIO. Legal and HR typically owned the investigations. I must not understand corporate structure.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Meizu Kho
Kho Incorporated
The Lone Space Wolves
#380 - 2013-02-12 18:17:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Meizu Kho
Funny how this has to happen the same day i make a video about a bot and it's followed by some interesting comments Big smile

youtube




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