These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Hide your ISK, Team Security is out of control. (Allegedly)

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#261 - 2013-02-12 15:49:21 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Well at least we now know who the bot lovers are. I look forwards to the next few weeks of mass bannings and isk vanishings that happens every time the botters wage a troll war against CCP Sreegs.

... and i thought Sreegs had declared the time of mass bannings to be gone for good - in favor of his more systematic & steady approach.

Or do you mean to imply that CCP Sreegs might not be entirely truthful with us?

that's a shocking accusation to make.


Quit derailing the thread, you're starting to sound like a botter sympathiser.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#262 - 2013-02-12 15:49:51 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
I'm going to go drink a bunch of beer now you can all go back to fighting.


ok I'm selling spiky bats three pringles and a shrub each

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#263 - 2013-02-12 15:55:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Well at least we now know who the bot lovers are. I look forwards to the next few weeks of mass bannings and isk vanishings that happens every time the botters wage a troll war against CCP Sreegs.

... and i thought Sreegs had declared the time of mass bannings to be gone for good - in favor of his more systematic & steady approach.

Or do you mean to imply that CCP Sreegs might not be entirely truthful with us?

that's a shocking accusation to make.


Quit derailing the thread, you're starting to sound like a botter sympathiser.

so what?

am I going to get banned by goonswarm or something?

(edit: on topic - I think the cache reader discussion is important but would be better off in a separate thread, maybe I'll create one on MD later.)

.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#264 - 2013-02-12 15:55:40 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Well at least we now know who the bot lovers are. I look forwards to the next few weeks of mass bannings and isk vanishings that happens every time the botters wage a troll war against CCP Sreegs.

... and i thought Sreegs had declared the time of mass bannings to be gone for good - in favor of his more systematic & steady approach.

Or do you mean to imply that CCP Sreegs might not be entirely truthful with us?

that's a shocking accusation to make.


Lets face it, anyone who is defending the botter and trying to attack CCP Sreegs and his team just screams "Im a botter stop whacking us with that hammer".
Sala Kyss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#265 - 2013-02-12 15:55:47 UTC
The hell are you people whining for anyway? What part of the EULA where it states, in moron terms, that CCP can do whatever they want, whenever they want, without ANY notice or warning, with both your account and assets?

They could take your entire wallet, give you 500b, and 3 seconds later put you negative 1 trillion. Guess what? Nothing you can do about it, because YOU signed the EULA.

If you self-righteous morons would actually take a second to look at it and realize you aren't entitled to ****, whether it be hand holding or even demanding explanations from dev's for their actions, maybe you'll realize how unimportant you actually are in the universe instead of being the "MOMMY I WANT A LOLLIPOP AND COOKIES NOW!" generation that expects everything in life handed to them on a silver platter.


1) Suspension of Account

Without limiting CCP's rights or remedies, CCP may immediately, and without notice, discontinue or suspend access to the System through your Account, and any and all other Accounts that share the name, phone number, e-mail address, internet protocol address or credit card number with the discontinued or suspended Account, in the event of (i) a breach of the EULA (including the Rules of Conduct) by you or any user under your Account; or (ii) unauthorized access to the System or use of the Game by you or any user under your Account.

Cripes people are beyond ******** nowadays
Dan Leviathan
Legion of Lemmings
War Rats
#266 - 2013-02-12 15:56:04 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
I'm going to go drink a bunch of beer now you can all go back to fighting.


ok I'm selling spiky bats three pringles and a shrub each


Will rupies and speghettios suffice?
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#267 - 2013-02-12 15:59:34 UTC
Dan Leviathan wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
I'm going to go drink a bunch of beer now you can all go back to fighting.


ok I'm selling spiky bats three pringles and a shrub each


Will rupies and speghettios suffice?

perhaps.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Thur Barbek
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#268 - 2013-02-12 15:59:48 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:


(edit: on topic - I think the cache reader discussion is important but would be better off in a separate thread, maybe I'll create one on MD later.)


Please dont, there have been several threads regarding cache scraping and Eve-central specifically already recently.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=202163&find=unread is one. There is also one in F&I somewhere and it pops up in general every so often.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#269 - 2013-02-12 16:03:33 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Dante Uisen wrote:
If/when it becomes illegal/impossible to use the cache files, what will happen to the massive amounts of isk players have made using this technique?

Nothing. It wasn't against the rules then, so they can't be punished for it.

John wants to have a word with you.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. John was using automation to modify his market orders, that was obvious from Kelduun's post linked from the OP. Automation of any form outside of what the client provides and what CCP explicitly allows (which as far as I know only includes the Logitech G15 keyboard) is against the EULA and grounds for action by CCP.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#270 - 2013-02-12 16:07:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
baltec1 wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Well at least we now know who the bot lovers are. I look forwards to the next few weeks of mass bannings and isk vanishings that happens every time the botters wage a troll war against CCP Sreegs.

... and i thought Sreegs had declared the time of mass bannings to be gone for good - in favor of his more systematic & steady approach.

Or do you mean to imply that CCP Sreegs might not be entirely truthful with us?

that's a shocking accusation to make.


Lets face it, anyone who is defending the botter and trying to attack CCP Sreegs and his team just screams "Im a botter stop whacking us with that hammer".


If you read my posts you might have noticed that I am not defending the botter.

My posts centered around three issues

(1) CCP IA being part of the security team rather than standing outside the company's regular hierarchies. As I pointed out before it is standard to have Internal Investigations report directly to the board of directors, CCP having their IA team report to some middle management dude is highly unusual and highlights the weak position of CCP IA.
CCP Sreegs chose to address this point with ridicule implying that employees at other companies (who follow best practices) are "unemployable" and not trustworthy.

(2) The claim that it is possible to modify 30 orders per minute by macro or by hand. IMO the only way this claim can be true is if the restriction on order modifications is client-side and can be bypassed with the right tools. But a simple macro should not be able to modify that many orders in such a short time without getting a "wait x seconds until you can continue" message.

(3) The implications of CCP Sreeg's view that cache scraping is illegal paired with the weakest of all possible assurances that we won't get banned for doing it "today" (all the while he was gloating about how I would look when he is going to ban me for using a cache scraper).
It would be a huge deal if Sreegs' view would be adopted by the GM team as cache scrapers are extremely widespread.
It is a big deal that according to Sreegs GM rulings in petition replies do not give any security.

As far as I can see none of these points did defend "John" or botting in general.

.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#271 - 2013-02-12 16:07:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Well at least we now know who the bot lovers are. I look forwards to the next few weeks of mass bannings and isk vanishings that happens every time the botters wage a troll war against CCP Sreegs.


Thus began the Troll Wars, where the forces of Trollheim did epic battle with the Legion of BanHammerstein.
Thur Barbek
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#272 - 2013-02-12 16:09:13 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
stuff


BUT, according to your own signature, your arguments are invalid! checkmate!

wheres my cookie?
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#273 - 2013-02-12 16:11:34 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Well at least we now know who the bot lovers are. I look forwards to the next few weeks of mass bannings and isk vanishings that happens every time the botters wage a troll war against CCP Sreegs.

... and i thought Sreegs had declared the time of mass bannings to be gone for good - in favor of his more systematic & steady approach.

Or do you mean to imply that CCP Sreegs might not be entirely truthful with us?

that's a shocking accusation to make.


Lets face it, anyone who is defending the botter and trying to attack CCP Sreegs and his team just screams "Im a botter stop whacking us with that hammer".


If you read my posts you might have noticed that I am not defending the botter.

My posts centered around three issues

(1) CCP IA being part of the security team rather than standing outside the company's regular hierarchies. As I pointed out before it is standard to have Internal Investigations report directly to the board of directors, CCP having their IA team report to some middle management dude is highly unusual and highlights the weak position of CCP IA.
CCP Sreegs chose to address this point with ridicule implying that employees at other companies (who follow best practices) are "unemployable" and not trustworthy.


Having worked in internal investigations for over a decade at very large companies I can inform you from experience that this statement is patently false in common practice. I've actually never even heard of this scenario, though I agree with its spirit.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Forgers United
#274 - 2013-02-12 16:16:14 UTC
I would like to see much more bot tiers, but oh well.
Anyway, as per using cache files for eve central or so, I would love to pull those mineral and module prices via API from CCP...problem is its not possible yet and I personally dont feel like typing 500-1000 numbers in my spreadsheets every day to see whats worth building manually. Smile
Abus Finkel
Caldari Capital Construction Inc.
#275 - 2013-02-12 16:26:54 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
I've never agreed with it. My stance of "Don't modify the client" hasn't changed since day one. That GMs for some reason have a different interpretation than I do is irrelevant.

CCP Sreegs wrote:
In my opinion cache scraping is illegal. You won't be banned for it today. I didn't see any questions asked what I saw was insults and accusations. Sorry if you have a different interpretation of polite social discourse.

Do you really consider read-only access to cache files as client modification?
Do you really consider me reading files stored on my own computer as being illegal? Are you aware that there's a huge difference between EULAs and actual laws?
Hannah Flex
#276 - 2013-02-12 16:27:47 UTC
Dude got busted botting and then the ivory tower of E-UNI took his dirty isk donation, whats the problem?
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#277 - 2013-02-12 16:28:58 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Cebraio wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Dante Uisen wrote:
If/when it becomes illegal/impossible to use the cache files, what will happen to the massive amounts of isk players have made using this technique?

Nothing. It wasn't against the rules then, so they can't be punished for it.

John wants to have a word with you.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. John was using automation to modify his market orders, that was obvious from Kelduun's post linked from the OP. Automation of any form outside of what the client provides and what CCP explicitly allows (which as far as I know only includes the Logitech G15 keyboard) is against the EULA and grounds for action by CCP.


From how understood it, John had a tool to read the cache of market orders, calculate the new price and show this information inside the IGB. So all he had to do was: copy-paste the values into his market orders. Last time I checked, reading the cache, calculating values in a 3rd party tool and doing some copy paste was not a banable offense. So CCP changed their mind in a hindsight and made it punishable.

I got this impression from here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2601144#post2601144

However, I could be misinformed. John may have used more advanced automation to do even less work by himself (i.e. changing the orders fully automatically). I wouldn't know.

I don't mind losing John as a presumably valuable player, I don't mind E-Uni losing isk they hadn't earned, I don't mind macro users being banned - but I do mind if rules are applied with double standards. If that was the case here, I don't know.
Dante Uisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#278 - 2013-02-12 16:30:14 UTC
Zakarumit CZ wrote:
I would like to see much more bot tiers, but oh well.
Anyway, as per using cache files for eve central or so, I would love to pull those mineral and module prices via API from CCP...problem is its not possible yet and I personally dont feel like typing 500-1000 numbers in my spreadsheets every day to see whats worth building manually. Smile


You can export market data in the game client as xml, so you don't have to type in the numbers. The main problem with this feature is the short period of time the data is valid. It would be great if the API was able to provide market data, but it would require some relative short API cache timers.
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2013-02-12 16:30:46 UTC  |  Edited by: TheSkeptic
baltec1 wrote:

Lets face it, anyone who is defending the botter and trying to attack CCP Sreegs and his team just screams "Im a botter stop whacking us with that hammer".


They just scared their own questionable activities may have put them under investigation also... it's damage control.

Edit: also GG Sreegs. Not only is it good the bots are getting banned, the forum porn is amazing
Edit2: can't believe the p word is sensored Shocked

...

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#280 - 2013-02-12 16:31:24 UTC
Zakarumit CZ wrote:
I would like to see much more bot tiers, but oh well.
Anyway, as per using cache files for eve central or so, I would love to pull those mineral and module prices via API from CCP...problem is its not possible yet and I personally dont feel like typing 500-1000 numbers in my spreadsheets every day to see whats worth building manually. Smile


At least you have spreadsheets. With BCs manufacturing tool now broken and not looking like its going to be fixed I might have to see just how much spreadsheet voodoo I can remember from schoolUgh