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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

First post First post
Author
Mindboner
Doomheim
#2061 - 2013-01-18 12:02:23 UTC
POSes please - security is hard now!
Davzarek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2062 - 2013-01-18 12:05:27 UTC
All areas of space null, empire and WH needs better living quaters.

Right now they make baby Jesus cry!

Head Dev that fixes them will get a bottle of vodka!
Jamie Banks
Wasted and Still Mining
#2063 - 2013-01-18 12:13:16 UTC
Signed.

I gave up on POS' years ago.

[center]AU/NZ Corporation Register[/center]

BloodSoaked Goddess
BB Corp
#2064 - 2013-01-18 12:17:12 UTC
W-Space for POS-changes!
Bazul Grandmas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2065 - 2013-01-18 12:18:27 UTC
Signed -- This really needs some work!
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2066 - 2013-01-18 12:23:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Hey John Lander.... You saved the world once and saved the eve universe other many times.... time to save it again making POS comfortable... ( well... Everyone knows that you are doing exactly this, but we want to put some pressure in the POS feature becouse as players we lack this in EVE and we have many friends that left EVE just becouse of this...)

so... imagine that as 2000 players means 2000+ subscriptions... how many devs you can keep in this project and also have profit?

Also, Build your Empire is a god Theme for the next expansion... you can ask people to vote if you are not sure...
Yinmatook
Skilled Refugees
#2067 - 2013-01-18 12:40:01 UTC
My Corp/Alliance works in Hi Sec. We need POS improvements for security and allowing Alliance members to actually use the POS that the management corp anchored in space. Without the POS, our T2 manufacturing would grind to a halt because of the horrendously long wait times in NPC stations for Copy and Material Research slots.

Please make POS's better.

Yinmatook
Director, Skilled Refugees
space chikun
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2068 - 2013-01-18 12:49:27 UTC
Now that I've raged, I'll put forward a simpler modular POS idea so I can say I was constructive.

1. Don't worry about pretty. We can deal with ugly at first.
2. Make a "Starbase Gantry" of sizes Micro, Small, Medium, Large, X-Large and Mega, make it anchorable anywhere*
3. Push them out in a major update.
4. Iterate shortly afterward by adding a storage module for each size that changes what the gantry looks like when applied and add storage access controls / storage; no fuel or power is required, as this module has no shields.

Basic concepts:
No gantry can have more than 1 module attached directly
Gantries can't be anchored within 5km of a gate or mega gantry.
Allow them to be anchored inside a current POS FF, where size appropriate
Want shields on the structure? Put fuel in the gantry's fuel bay.
Micro gantries shouldn't need more than 1 block a week to generate basic shields. Scale up for larger.

From there - iterate new modules and looks for these things. Maybe eventually an invasion module for Large+ gantries can be made that has multiple module slots itself - with a specific set of types that can be slotted.

A lot of this sounds complicated, but if you start with a simple base that you can build upon, you can iterate however you want.

Hell, if you get 3 modules in and realize it's useless to replace our current FF towers, that's fine - you can deal with those another way, and just use these for some neat structure opportunities *in addition* to the current (hopefully revamped a little) POS system.
T'san Manaan
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2069 - 2013-01-18 13:01:26 UTC
yes please
Shasz
Angels of Anarchy
#2070 - 2013-01-18 13:06:49 UTC
CCP needs a theme.

How about Ownership and Pride?

Take pride in the ships you own (custom paint/colors).
Take pride in your frontier homestead (small, modular POS beginnings)
Take pride in your planetary installations (PI upgrades, Dust 514 defense installations or something)
Take pride in your Alliance's holdings or accomplishments (Some step toward sov revamp)
Be proud of your accomplishments (Manufacture-able monuments that can be anchored)

POS:
Begin the modular POS feature with small, personal outposts that can be placed anywhere. Give them hangar space. Let them mount a small amount of defense or attack modules. Later add other features like refining modules, research labs, manufacturing plants, shield generators, etc.

Maybe each modular POS has not only power-grid and CPU, but also a certain number of hard-points it can accept modules onto. Come up with a unified art design for mating up these hard-point surfaces, and you can mix and match. Maybe some modules have expansions for the number of hard-points. Maybe some boost the CPU and power-grid with supplementary generators. While I'm a huge fan of LEGO, I'm thinking more of a Tinkertoy design here.

Down the road, each of these modules could have their own interiors. Dust battles could be fought inside them, or something related to WiS. Anyway, this brainstorm is starting to ramble, but give us a home of our own that we can take pride in and design to our satisfaction.

Paint:
Dozens of ideas abound for this. Make it happen! Add an isk sink on repairs such that it costs extra to repaint the damaged hull or armor sections. Sell Unique militia skins for LP. Sell paint blueprints. Involve the community in designing the paint schemes and select only appropriate patterns. Give credit to the author's characters in the blueprint description. Ownership - Pride!

PI:
I'm sure you have plans for Dust/PI stuff. It most likely fits in this theme.

Nullsec:
No idea what the plan is here, but you can kick it off with pride.

Monuments:
Let the art team run with ideas for small, medium and large monuments. Let us anchor them. Let them absorb lots of minerals. Let them have custom text descriptions. Let them be blown up in accordance with Crimewatch. Anchoring a can and naming it something happens all over New Eden. Clearly there is demand for something like this. And it has to be an easy feature to implement, and its something the art team can dabble with in their spare time.

Perhaps a thesaurus might be handy in finding a snappier name for the theme, but Pride and Ownership lets you fit in all sorts of crowd-pleasing features.
space chikun
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2071 - 2013-01-18 13:20:25 UTC
Shasz wrote:
CCP needs a theme.

How about Ownership and Pride?

Take pride in the ships you own (custom paint/colors).
Take pride in your frontier homestead (small, modular POS beginnings)
Take pride in your planetary installations (PI upgrades, Dust 514 defense installations or something)
Take pride in your Alliance's holdings or accomplishments (Some step toward sov revamp)
Be proud of your accomplishments (Manufacture-able monuments that can be anchored)

POS:
Begin the modular POS feature with small, personal outposts that can be placed anywhere. Give them hangar space. Let them mount a small amount of defense or attack modules. Later add other features like refining modules, research labs, manufacturing plants, shield generators, etc.

Maybe each modular POS has not only power-grid and CPU, but also a certain number of hard-points it can accept modules onto. Come up with a unified art design for mating up these hard-point surfaces, and you can mix and match. Maybe some modules have expansions for the number of hard-points. Maybe some boost the CPU and power-grid with supplementary generators. While I'm a huge fan of LEGO, I'm thinking more of a Tinkertoy design here.

Down the road, each of these modules could have their own interiors. Dust battles could be fought inside them, or something related to WiS. Anyway, this brainstorm is starting to ramble, but give us a home of our own that we can take pride in and design to our satisfaction.

Paint:
Dozens of ideas abound for this. Make it happen! Add an isk sink on repairs such that it costs extra to repaint the damaged hull or armor sections. Sell Unique militia skins for LP. Sell paint blueprints. Involve the community in designing the paint schemes and select only appropriate patterns. Give credit to the author's characters in the blueprint description. Ownership - Pride!

PI:
I'm sure you have plans for Dust/PI stuff. It most likely fits in this theme.

Nullsec:
No idea what the plan is here, but you can kick it off with pride.

Monuments:
Let the art team run with ideas for small, medium and large monuments. Let us anchor them. Let them absorb lots of minerals. Let them have custom text descriptions. Let them be blown up in accordance with Crimewatch. Anchoring a can and naming it something happens all over New Eden. Clearly there is demand for something like this. And it has to be an easy feature to implement, and its something the art team can dabble with in their spare time.

Perhaps a thesaurus might be handy in finding a snappier name for the theme, but Pride and Ownership lets you fit in all sorts of crowd-pleasing features.


I change my answer to this. This is your theme, Unifex and Seagull - it applies to everyone involved, really. Pride in your product? :)

Heck you could split it up into two themes this year: "Pomp" and "Circumstance". Giving you timing options.
Shasz
Angels of Anarchy
#2072 - 2013-01-18 13:21:16 UTC

More small modular POS brainstorming...

Say you can plant a small POS on a gate in nullsec with some guns.

Now plant a few of them around the gate to your home system/pocket.

Let your imagination run wild.

Alliance defense squads could play a mini-game of tower defense. Small gangs could infiltrate areas and try to offline some of these defenses. Fuel block resource usage would skyrocket. Mining demand would skyrocket. PI demand would skyrocket. Alliances could genuinely attempt to defend their space with something other than blobs.

I see win all around on this...
Drake Scarrlette
ShotGlass Liberation Front
#2073 - 2013-01-18 13:22:20 UTC
I support a revamp of the current POS system to update the interface, fix access levels and modify or add new POS modules to revitalize this part of the game.
space chikun
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2074 - 2013-01-18 13:24:30 UTC
Shasz wrote:

More small modular POS brainstorming...

Say you can plant a small POS on a gate in nullsec with some guns.

Now plant a few of them around the gate to your home system/pocket.

Let your imagination run wild.

Alliance defense squads could play a mini-game of tower defense. Small gangs could infiltrate areas and try to offline some of these defenses. Fuel block resource usage would skyrocket. Mining demand would skyrocket. PI demand would skyrocket. Alliances could genuinely attempt to defend their space with something other than blobs.

I see win all around on this...


These are all things talked about when Fozzie brought it up at ATX. I mean really, the stuff they've discussed in earlier CSM meetings may be over-thinking what's needed to get the ball rolling. Some of the features CCP wants seem like things better implemented as modules instead of a base feature.
Ket Chii
Lead Farmers
#2075 - 2013-01-18 13:32:22 UTC
Sedilis wrote:
Outrageous u-turn CCP!

Because of the terrible security on POS we w-space corp are forced to exclude large parts of the player base from our recruitment. When we explained this to Greyscale and Masterplan last March they could see this hits your bottom line.

We don't want the whole company for a whole expansion.

We don't even need a whole new pos system.

WE NEED SECURE SHIP STORAGE.

Please give us access control lists on Ship Maintenance Arrays!


Private CHAs would be nice too. But even just private SMAs would be a good start.
Mirana Rinah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2076 - 2013-01-18 13:41:53 UTC
I'm with you!
space chikun
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2077 - 2013-01-18 13:43:57 UTC
Mirana Rinah wrote:
I'm with you!


I can't believe I'm agreeing with E-UNI!
Nair Alderau
The Blessed Chains of Freedom
#2078 - 2013-01-18 13:54:48 UTC
space chikun wrote:
Mirana Rinah wrote:
I'm with you!


I can't believe I'm agreeing with E-UNI!


We'll even support your right to wardec us and destroy our new, shiny, scalable, modular POSes.
In the future, it won't be a pain to rebuild them after all... (*hope*)

Naturally, we'd prefer to defend them successfully. ;) *blob,blob*
Meytal
Doomheim
#2079 - 2013-01-18 14:01:11 UTC
The co-existing idea is a good one, and will let you implement new, tight, efficient code while continually identifying the old code for easier removal later. As far as a "lore-based" reason, just say that the Amarr Empress doesn't like the look of all the towers in Amarr space, that they make the place look cheap and trashy, and demands an improvement in form and functionality befitting the Amarr Empire. The rest of the factions will scramble to catch up when they see she wasn't nuts and that the Amarr design was truly magnificent.


As far as what they look like, they should be big, nearly as big as stations for the large new-POS. You could go with the ring design on the Retribution loading screen and make it look really good; that looks amazing as it is, and I'd much rather look at that than the two sticks that I manage right now. The small new-POS could be a single ring that rotated slowly, the medium could be two rings that rotate slowly in the same direction. The large could have the two rings, and a larger ring (or other round-ish structure) in the middle that rotates in the opposite direction. The central core/stick should remain minimal, while all the features are added into fitting slots on the rings.

If you want to show that modules were fitted to the new-POS, you could make the rings skeletal, adding structure as modules were added. Or you could just make the whole thing full and solid. It might be faster to start with the latter option, so you can focus on getting the mechanics right before adding bells and whistles. Ultimately, it would still be important for the neutral or hostile observer to know what is installed at the POS without having to decloak.

I'm envisioning a system where you use a fitting screen, much like fitting a ship, to reconfigure the POS. Individual service modules would need to be offline, like with ships, before you could manipulate them, and the modules would need to be loaded into a cargo bay in the new-POS before they can be fit.


For starters though, working on a new access control list similar to those used in IT Security and adding audit logs to SMAs and CHAs would go a long way to making the current POS situation much better. Then allow us to assign rights to rearrange reaction chains, and I personally would be quite satisfied with POSes. Assembling and reconfiguring T3 cruisers could be done at a point release, if new tech needs to be added to support them. Or that could wait for the new-POS, to avoid touching the old POS code too much.


POSes are a huge, vastly important mineral sink. In Hisec, they are also ISK/LP sinks, due to the charters. If more people were able to set up a POS, more resources would be removed from the economy, and potentially more POSes would die. To facilitate this, add a new option for POSes to Launch for Self. The permission to do this lies with the corp management: if the corp allows members to launch personal POSes, they can do it. Once the Empress sees how aesthetically pleasing the new-POSes are, she may want them everywhere, and order the NPC corps to open the floodgates and allow individual players to set up a POS. Player corps would have this option turned off by default. Naturally, others would follow suit, or perhaps the Gallente or Caldari might be the first ones to push for this.

If POSes go dormant -- lack of fuel for an extended period of time, offline for an extended period of time, etc. -- then they could become hackable. A new status indicator for POS System Security that decreases over time as it is hacked by one or more players that counts down to zero. At zero, the POS can be unanchored and scooped, or the attacker could initiate self destruct, receiving some components that were used in its creation. If the POS is onlined or refuled, then it begins to regenerate the System Security until it reaches full status. Friendlies should also be able to hack it and choose an option to repair the System Security.

Perhaps make the hacking process require consumables, for a total cost of half the original build price of the POS itself, thus double-dipping with the sinks.

Fel Terrik
Perkone
Caldari State
#2080 - 2013-01-18 14:01:33 UTC
I have lived in a POS in null sec and now have a POS hi sec and they badly need work.