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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

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Wagner Alves
Prision Break Inc.
#1881 - 2013-01-18 01:00:53 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
We NEED POS revamp, don't you guys understand!? We are in PAIN with the current system!!!

I Just lost the hope that CCP will do something as significant as a "Sand Castle POS" where you could shape it with 99% freedom... but not even a modular POS1?!?!? WTH!!!! WTF!!!!


I totally agree with you Alx. You have my +1.
Sorxus
High Intellion
#1882 - 2013-01-18 01:04:21 UTC
Gogela wrote:
I don't think that CCP disagrees that POS's need to be redone. From what I've read it seems to be just a couple of things:

1) CCP Doesn't think enough players care. You guys are doing a good job of correcting that here.

2) Will modular POSs bring more NEW players into the game? That's a little harder to say... let's be honest: most players don't even think about setting up a station in their first couple of months. I sure didn't come to EvE for the stations. Stations are a little more complex and require a lot of game knowledge to understand all of their functions... and to set one up you need to read a friggin' phonebook written in Greek. That's a hard sell to a newcomer especially. The real crux of this thread is whether POS's are going to bring in fresh meat or coming out with panda avatars or something will do better.

...that's the last I'll say on this. It's *popcorn* time for me.

GL o7


You are not completely right about 2nd point. I remember when i was rookie in this game, i've heard other players talking about player owned stations and control towers. I was very excited by the idea of having my own "space base", building it. Thought that some day i will have it, my own base of operations. Remember how awesome it looked back then.

And now as a CEO i have to look after multiple POS'es and mark my word - i am getting tired of this outdated and incomplete game mechanic.
Nair Alderau
The Blessed Chains of Freedom
#1883 - 2013-01-18 01:08:54 UTC
Sorxus wrote:
Gogela wrote:
I don't think that CCP disagrees that POS's need to be redone. From what I've read it seems to be just a couple of things:

1) CCP Doesn't think enough players care. You guys are doing a good job of correcting that here.

2) Will modular POSs bring more NEW players into the game? That's a little harder to say... let's be honest: most players don't even think about setting up a station in their first couple of months. I sure didn't come to EvE for the stations. Stations are a little more complex and require a lot of game knowledge to understand all of their functions... and to set one up you need to read a friggin' phonebook written in Greek. That's a hard sell to a newcomer especially. The real crux of this thread is whether POS's are going to bring in fresh meat or coming out with panda avatars or something will do better.

...that's the last I'll say on this. It's *popcorn* time for me.

GL o7


You are not completely right about 2nd point. I remember when i was rookie in this game, i've heard other players talking about player owned stations and control towers. I was very excited by the idea of having my own "space base", building it. Thought that some day i will have it, my own base of operations. Remember how awesome it looked back then.

And now as a CEO i have to look after multiple POS'es and mark my word - i am getting tired of this outdated and incomplete game mechanic.


This. If well done, the smaller/cheaper end of a scalable POS system would be HUGE attraction to new players.
Jotaro Haake
Perkone
Caldari State
#1884 - 2013-01-18 01:09:11 UTC
+1 in support of keeping POS changes (ideally, bringing in modular POSes) as a priority.

Perhaps game metrics at CCP measure POSes as only being used by a relatively small number of players in the game, but this:

A) Assumes that the low use is by choice
B) Does not predict how many players would potentially use POSes if they added several layers of awesome and friendly to them.
C) Ignores their absolute importance to the wormhole resident community.
D) Ignores the fact that the small number of players using POSes have a disproportionate impact on the game - corp directors, industrialists, logistics managers, etcetera - and that the in-game communities these players support suffer disproportionately as well if they burn out or disengage from using POSes.

In other words: metrics need to be understood in their context and not used to justify arguments beyond their ability to substantiate.

As far as CCP being worried about putting too many resources into what would be a giant project: I respect that CCP has to worry about the bottom line, and balancing adding new features with improving existing ones. Surely a proper re-do of POSes could be introduced as the ideal combination of both options? As well as a great jumping-off point to making meaningful changes to production, science, sovereignty, etcetera?

At the very least, if CCP is not going to bring in modular POSes, then improve what is there. To have an answer such as was communicated in the minutes makes eve players everywhere worry that POS changes will be either perfunctory or postponed to oblivion. That, too, will 'kill the business'.
Callum Hughes
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1885 - 2013-01-18 01:09:38 UTC
+1
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#1886 - 2013-01-18 01:11:23 UTC
I think it's frankly disgusting how CCP get their player base so excited about very close to promised features and then once the player base is riled up by the idea, they drop it.

I'm not just talking about POSes here. I have been very much looking forward to some Avatar based game-play content since the release of Incarna. The CSM minutes show that CCP are very much interesting in pursuing their own goals with a complete disregard for the feelings of their players. They can't just raise and dash out hopes like this.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Paldur the Wary
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1887 - 2013-01-18 01:11:29 UTC
+1 to POS changes
Willow corpus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1888 - 2013-01-18 01:12:26 UTC
I read in the csm, (now I am about to greatly simplify the issue for timesake) that they are giving up working on posses.

Why

because the amount of work to revamp posses is not = the amount of players who use them.




Thats the end of there thinking.

QuestionBut wait, why do so few use posses?

1. Because it is broken

2. BECAUSE IT IS RETARDLY BROKEN.

(And here is why it is broken)

1. The roles needed to set your own pos up, also lets you take down every pos in your corp (BROKEN)

Evil Maybe (no hear me out here)
maybe when a game mechanic as cool as setting up a starbase is so rarely used by the majority of players, maybe its time to fix it and make it so more people can and will use it, make it so we all want a little base we can go to at the end of the day. Or a little base where in hi-sec mission agents will require us to pick up a mission there.



That being said I am a nullsec carrier pilot, and I want a pos where I can manufacture a couple of things (because the outposts all have like 2 slots)



In summary Oops Revamp posses not because everyone uses them, but because very few use them, revamp them so that they are interesting and cool to own, as well as make it so you can have personal ones with very little connection to the corp you are in.
recky markaira
Good Ole Boys
Sigma Grindset
#1889 - 2013-01-18 01:13:38 UTC
Blink+2Blink
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1890 - 2013-01-18 01:13:52 UTC
Silvonus wrote:
POS are some of the oldest code, and were never fully developed from the start. Most players understand this, we are not expecting miracles but we do want to see some concrete development happening. POS have been talked about for years as needing fixes, and while there are many areas of the game that also need improving, none is more glaring than POSs. The time is ripe for change.

The arm of POSs is far reaching, affecting nearly every area of the game in one form or another. This is what I feel CCP is worried about when potentially overhauling the entire system. POS affect nearly all of industry, life in null and w-space and corporation management. It is nearly impossible to separate POS from any of these (and more) systems. The risk that something would go wrong is high, even for the slightest of changes. Since the effects are wide, this also has the potential of being the most powerful fix/expansion ever especially if linked to systems like sovereignty, industry and CREST.

Here is what I see are the major areas of EVE that need to be developed:
  • POS and other player controlled structures
  • Industry, production and group mining (ring)
  • Nullsec sovereignty
  • Corporation management

    • Yes, there are more things, but those in my opinion are the largest ones bringing EVE into a “complete” state with no major areas lacking. Now, of those areas, industry is already tied significantly to POS, and while it does not need to be released at the same time as POS, having a new POS backbone to tie into would help it significantly. Nullsec sovereignty is a thorny path. It works currently but has a lot of room for improvement. A POS revamp has the potential not to just affect how we think of POS right now, that is a stick in the bubble, but rather extend onto other player owned and controlled structures, such as I-Hubs, stations, and whatever else we could imagine, which could be then tied into new sov mechanics and methods to maintain and control areas. Corporation mechanics are already so closely tied with POSs, that separating one form the other is hard to do and trying to fix one and not the other only prolongs the issue.

    CCP, you want to have themed expansions? How about this for a theme: “Build your empire.”

    Task half the teams to work on Corporation management and UI, and the other half to POSs. Nothing draws players into game more than being able to claim a piece of land (or in this case, space). Not just something that has your name on it in the corner, but something that you as a player build. You gathered the resources, you teamed up with other players, you fought off those who would compete with you and you prevailed. And these aren't just vanity homes to display pictures, these are the workhorses and the backbone of your military might, your production chain to control the market, the bastion where you live.

    CCP, we know you can pull this off. You pulled off a beautiful interface with planetary interaction in Tyrannis, you've delivered content in Apocrypha on an unprecedented scale, you've paid attention to the details in Crucible and Inferno, you've shown us that you can make a game like none other. The path to greatness isn't easy, but only those who dare the most difficult road reap the greatest rewards.


    Pretty much This!! "Build Your Empire" and your Sandcastles!!!

    Please read these!

    New POS system New SOV system
    Stigman Zuwadza
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #1891 - 2013-01-18 01:18:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Stigman Zuwadza
    CCP needs a development team with a 'can do' attitude, I thought CCP consisted of about 200 employees, maybe you (CCP) need to shed some fat and get in those 'can do' guys.

    My snide remark aside, POSes need a serious rework.

    An example of how bad they can be ...my friend gave my alt Directorship of his Corp because it was easier than faffing around with roles. Creating a better system for accessing a POS is much needed.

    Fly safe. o7

    It's broken and it's been broken for a long time and it'll be broken for some time to come.
    Kara Kardan
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #1892 - 2013-01-18 01:18:20 UTC
    I wonder how they measure pos usage.
    Just today i was reminded on how pos have their issues. Juggling access in a wh corp, including new members and enabling us to share and work together for our corp was not easy. It could be much better.

    I am always sad when i see someone excited for wh and i can never just invite them because well, spais.
    Manzinus
    Ascendent.
    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    #1893 - 2013-01-18 01:18:31 UTC
    Fix POS mechanics. I don't care if thats the only thing the next whole expansion is on. Fix it.
    Fenrisian Wolf
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #1894 - 2013-01-18 01:22:29 UTC
    +1
    Legomaniax
    The Pony Express
    #1895 - 2013-01-18 01:22:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Legomaniax
    SIGNED

    Understandable that this is something that might take some time to revamp, but I have faith that CCP will do it right and it will be magnificent.

    POS's are NOT the culmination of all what is evil in the world, but they could be improved.

    While its easy to say on the outside looking in that nothing is being done, there are a good amount of people that aren't pulling out our hair because we can't repackage in a POS or there is no way to open cans inside the corp hanger.

    Keep fighting the good fight CCP! Make us all proud! Or at least give us something else to complain about Blink

    -Lego
    Torshawna
    Dutch Rudder Trading Company
    #1896 - 2013-01-18 01:24:25 UTC
    A change to the POS system is so over due that it's not even funny. I can't believe CCP would even consider backing out!
    Huron Rhea
    The Night Owls
    Workers Trade Federation
    #1897 - 2013-01-18 01:25:31 UTC
    My corp and alliance have spent a considerable amount of time working with POSs in low sec and wormholes. They're a crucial element for industry and wormhole warfare, even NPC null sec encounters -- not to mention their necessity in sov 0.0. In their current state there is ample room for improvements, many of which consecutive CSMs have brought to light for CCP. Alas, beyond the fuel block simplification, little else has been done to mend the work flow of the interface and the structures themselves. I'm very sympathetic to the "lego in space" concept if it means improving the player experience of POSs overall.

    As some other replies have noted, if there is a dearth of use of POSs it may in fact be to their less-than-friendly comportment in the game.

    Thanks for putting out this call to demonstrate our interest Two Step.
    Celly Smunt
    Neutin Local LLC
    #1898 - 2013-01-18 01:27:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Celly S
    Manzinus wrote:
    Fix POS mechanics. I don't care if thats the only thing the next whole expansion is on. Fix it.



    I'm sure many wouldn't care either, I know I wouldn't, however I think we (and CCP) have to remember that SOV needs work, badly according to what I've read, so I'd be more than willing to "share" the pos Revamp with SOV fixes and I also think (based on a few previous posts) that those two items would actually compliment each other in the long run.

    Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
    Innominate
    KarmaFleet
    Goonswarm Federation
    #1899 - 2013-01-18 01:28:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Innominate
    CCP Gargant wrote:

    "Seagull: The reason there's a “no” to doing [Modular POSes] right now is that it was affecting all of these areas in a way that was too big to do at once.

    ...

    Nowhere has CCP stated that the Player Owned Structure system will not receive attention.
    Faldor Pahineh
    24th Imperial Crusade
    Amarr Empire
    #1900 - 2013-01-18 01:28:38 UTC
    Please improve the POSs. They're in dire need of iteration. Other replies state a range of what's needed, some of what's not. But really, we'd all love to see some action around POSs.