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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

First post First post
Author
Arduemont
The State of War.
#1821 - 2013-01-17 23:36:14 UTC
Posting in support of POS update. Thank you Two Step for sticking up for what we, the players, want.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Loris Fritz
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
Federation Uprising
#1822 - 2013-01-17 23:36:47 UTC
I Live in a wormhole. I love living in W-space and nothing would ever get me out of it. It is truly a nomadic lifestyle, always on the edge. I never know what is around the corner each day and I face it head on with excitement! If W-space where to ever become unlivable, unplayable, becomes overly underpopulated, or is no longer fun, I would not hesitate to stop playing EVE, as W-space is why I play EVE. I don't say this to be rude, or mean. I say this because I may be a minority, but from my perspective it is everything to me.

I understand that certian comforts are forfit when living in W-space. Things like Lack of local chat, Stargates, Asteroid/ Ice belts, and stations. Extra work has to be put into living in W-space as well, such as Scanning, managing Bookmarks, and all the logistical nightmares for doing ANYTHING in w-space. This is an aspect of 'W-SPACE SPECIFIC GAMEPLAY.'

BUT, there are some 'BASIC GAMEPLAY ELEMENTS' that are missing, that no EVE player should ever go without, and sadly its us W-spacers that are missing out. To get an even and balanced game that everyone can enjoy wherever they decide to live, changes need to happen. The simple idea of repackaging ships/moduals and having a private area to store MY stuff (something found in basically EVERY MMO EVER). There are also conceptual problems with W-space such as the sole reason for W-space to exist is to create T3 cruisers, which we cant even assemble or use out of the box in the WH. That logically unsound. It is like being able to make a sandwich at home but NEVER being able to eat it at home.

The truly sad thing Is that at the recent CSM meeting, it was decided to stop the advancement of development that would fix these problems.

Give us a chance to play like the rest of EVE does.
Illectroculus Defined
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1823 - 2013-01-17 23:38:02 UTC
The obvious answer is to Make it relevant to a larger part of the player base. Let everyone deploy structures in space, not full scale POS's just little places people can call home. I don't care what gameplay you have to make up for this but if it means a POS redesign then that's all that matters.
Ted McManfist
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1824 - 2013-01-17 23:40:10 UTC
Illectroculus Defined wrote:
The obvious answer is to Make it relevant to a larger part of the player base. Let everyone deploy structures in space, not full scale POS's just little places people can call home. I don't care what gameplay you have to make up for this but if it means a POS redesign then that's all that matters.



Agreed. Update POSes to MAKE them relevant to a larger group.
Ammutseba Gangulur
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1825 - 2013-01-17 23:43:09 UTC
I feel really sorry for whoever has to crawl through this legacy code and update the POS system. Regardless of the mechanics they change or update the physical act of coding this will be utterly horrible and would totally earn the eternal love of anyone who plays EVE as this will even benefit people who just do high sec missions and never even warped to a moon.
Tzeneth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1826 - 2013-01-17 23:43:26 UTC
/signed

If you can fix a little of the PoS problem and then make modular PoS's I'd love you. If you do anything to make PoS's better, I'll love you :)
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1827 - 2013-01-17 23:44:18 UTC
CCP Gargant wrote:
I can't make promises for game designers or the people that make content for EVE Online. Please try to remember that. What I can do is assure you that your voices have been heard, the opinion of the CSM has been heard, and the concerns raised in this thread have been heard.
Respectfully, CCP Gargant, therein lies the problem. I certainly still have an enormous amount of respect for CCP and the job its Devs do every day, but if you're just writing to say "hold on guys, we hear you," but you can't actually comment on what's coming, then that doesn't really help us at all.

POSes are in a desperate state at the moment. And I think many people would agree--players and CCP--that something needs to be done to improve POS mechanics and, as a result, quality of life. Let me point out a few quotes of my own that I have found that give many of us posting here concern that "POSes had been shelved:"

Page 37 (after UAxDEATH brought up "broken promises" on a POS revamp):

"Unifex stated that what CCP did was spend effort and prototype what would make a good POS system. It would, however, only affect the group of people who manage POSes. Focusing that amount of time and effort on some small singular aspect of the game and delivering only that “is what will kill the business”. (emphasis added)

Then back on Page 21:

"Unifex: We can't do everything in our long-term plan in the next 6 months. And when we actually do the prototyping and figure out how tough something is to actually do, our plans may change." (emphasis added)

Jumping ahead to Page 38:

"[F]rom a game design perspective, implementing changes to null-sec and the sov system in general would be easier than revamping the POS system. On top of that, Soundwave added, the POS system by itself would only affect a small portion of the community."

It seems evident from the quotes above that CCP had, in fact, analyzed whether a POS revamp would be worth it but then decided that the developer cost-to-player benefit could not be justified due to POSes "affect[ing] a small portion of the community."

Certainly, we could look all over the EVE Universe and find points where problems exist, from high sec to low to null to wormhole space. And of course each player from those respective areas is going to want to lobby for their area being fixed. The thing about POSes, though, is that they affect players in all areas of the game, and this doesn't even speak of what POSes could do if given a proper once-over. They could make massive quality of life improvements, from refitting T3s in wormhole space to rethinking how refining and manufacturing fit in high sec space.

Granted there is merit in focusing developer talent and financial resources on individual areas, and there are many systems that need overhaul. But given the fact that POSes affect players in all areas, the answer seems obvious.

Whether its a new player or veteran, there's tremendous gameplay opportunity a POS revamp would afford. It could easily attract newer players to POSes if they weren't so daunting or hard to manage, and it would give veterans quality of life improvements that are long overdue.

I'm signing this thread, because I believe that our concerns weren't misplaced. And I feel that POSes are in need of change.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

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Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#1828 - 2013-01-17 23:44:25 UTC
Silvonus wrote:
POS are some of the oldest code, and were never fully developed from the start. Most players understand this, we are not expecting miracles but we do want to see some concrete development happening. POS have been talked about for years as needing fixes, and while there are many areas of the game that also need improving, none is more glaring than POSs. The time is ripe for change.

The arm of POSs is far reaching, affecting nearly every area of the game in one form or another. This is what I feel CCP is worried about when potentially overhauling the entire system. POS affect nearly all of industry, life in null and w-space and corporation management. It is nearly impossible to separate POS from any of these (and more) systems. The risk that something would go wrong is high, even for the slightest of changes. Since the effects are wide, this also has the potential of being the most powerful fix/expansion ever especially if linked to systems like sovereignty, industry and CREST.

Here is what I see are the major areas of EVE that need to be developed:
  • POS and other player controlled structures
  • Industry, production and group mining (ring)
  • Nullsec sovereignty
  • Corporation management

  • Yes, there are more things, but those in my opinion are the largest ones bringing EVE into a “complete” state with no major areas lacking. Now, of those areas, industry is already tied significantly to POS, and while it does not need to be released at the same time as POS, having a new POS backbone to tie into would help it significantly. Nullsec sovereignty is a thorny path. It works currently but has a lot of room for improvement. A POS revamp has the potential not to just affect how we think of POS right now, that is a stick in the bubble, but rather extend onto other player owned and controlled structures, such as I-Hubs, stations, and whatever else we could imagine, which could be then tied into new sov mechanics and methods to maintain and control areas. Corporation mechanics are already so closely tied with POSs, that separating one form the other is hard to do and trying to fix one and not the other only prolongs the issue.

    CCP, you want to have themed expansions? How about this for a theme: “Build your empire.”

    Task half the teams to work on Corporation management and UI, and the other half to POSs. Nothing draws players into game more than being able to claim a piece of land (or in this case, space). Not just something that has your name on it in the corner, but something that you as a player build. You gathered the resources, you teamed up with other players, you fought off those who would compete with you and you prevailed. And these aren't just vanity homes to display pictures, these are the workhorses and the backbone of your military might, your production chain to control the market, the bastion where you live.

    CCP, we know you can pull this off. You pulled off a beautiful interface with planetary interaction in Tyrannis, you've delivered content in Apocrypha on an unprecedented scale, you've paid attention to the details in Crucible and Inferno, you've shown us that you can make a game like none other. The path to greatness isn't easy, but only those who dare the most difficult road reap the greatest rewards.


    My exact thoughts put much more concise and politely. well done.
    Elderel
    Front Line Logistics
    #1829 - 2013-01-17 23:44:43 UTC
    I'm far less interested in modular pos housing than I am in a corp management system that actually allows reasonable use of poses and pos modules without being a threat to corp production goals. Give us the ability to allow members to restrict delivery of other members jobs, restrict within a specific module who can access which tabs rather than the global garbage we currently have.
    Darth Gustav
    Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
    #1830 - 2013-01-17 23:46:04 UTC
    How many people did they expect to want a monocole from the NEX?

    That got plenty of dev time.

    I thought greed was good, what's up with this?

    More POS = More PLEX being sold.

    When are you going to require bizdevs to actually play the game? Shocked

    He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

    Lord Zim
    Gallente Federation
    #1831 - 2013-01-17 23:46:50 UTC
    Eliniale wrote:
    Stalker ofeveryone wrote:
    We need more updates for NULLSEC, not JUST for the miners/mission runners in 1.0 space.


    Nullsec gets more attention than low, high and WH combined, so, uhm, zip it?

    Nope.

    Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

    RIP Vile Rat

    Elle Lau
    Lazerhawks
    L A Z E R H A W K S
    #1832 - 2013-01-17 23:46:55 UTC
    CCP please fix up the POS situation so people stop stealing my expensive ships.

    The old POS system is horribly broken by todays standards of what you could achieve, I know you can do better.
    Taawuz
    League of Non-Aligned Worlds
    #1833 - 2013-01-17 23:47:10 UTC
    Fix pos's or it's Shoot Jita Monument CTA's!

    *torches and pitchforks*

    In a more coherent sense, I think the reason why Crucible, Inferno and Retribution were that great was because they were fixing **** that was broke and I honestly do not think I actually like the new ccp development roadmap.
    Buzzy Warstl
    Quantum Flux Foundry
    #1834 - 2013-01-17 23:49:11 UTC
    Eliniale wrote:
    Stalker ofeveryone wrote:
    We need more updates for NULLSEC, not JUST for the miners/mission runners in 1.0 space.


    Nullsec gets more attention than low, high and WH combined, so, uhm, zip it?

    Modular POS is an update for *everyone*, especially if they do "anchor anywhere".

    http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

    Ametius
    DYNAMIC INTERVENTION
    ORPHANS OF EVE
    #1835 - 2013-01-17 23:49:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ametius
    Vera Algaert wrote:
    CCP seems to see POSes solely as a tool for research, production, wh life, ... and forgets that POSes are also a tool for players and corporations to leave their mark on the world, their very own little castle.

    "Our own POS" already is a stock goal of empire-based corporations - completely regardless of whether they have an actual use for the capabilities offered by a POS or not.

    If the POS system would not be quite as terrible as it is POSes would quickly become the EVE equivalent of player-owned housing in other MMOs.





    POS System need revamping CCP. Lots of players will benefit and that is across the entire face of the game and in every corner of EVE.

    It took me less than 1 minute moving my stuff into our Corp POS in Wh some weeks ago to see how much of a mess it finding places to store stuff was living out of a suitcase among the stars.

    Get the system revamped so we can have a better home among the stars. You seriously think people dont want that. We all do. POS revamp affects almost everyone in EVE.
    Gogela
    The Conference Elite
    CODE.
    #1836 - 2013-01-17 23:50:13 UTC
    Taawuz wrote:
    Fix pos's or it's Shoot Jita Monument CTA's!

    *torches and pitchforks*

    In a more coherent sense, I think the reason why Crucible, Inferno and Retribution were that great was because they were fixing **** that was broke and I honestly do not think I actually like the new ccp development roadmap.

    Do you know what the roadmap is? Because I haven't a clue.

    Signatures should be used responsibly...

    Vermillion Sands
    Dark Star Extraction
    #1837 - 2013-01-17 23:55:33 UTC
    Agreed, POS's need attention
    JohnnyRingo
    Somali Sailors
    #1838 - 2013-01-17 23:56:55 UTC
    Modular pos + Pos fixes PLEASE!

    Also simple things like:

    ArrowAnchoring GRID
    ArrowPreset module formations
    ArrowAnchoring queue
    Saede Riordan
    Alexylva Paradox
    #1839 - 2013-01-17 23:58:35 UTC
    I am a small part of the community. I would like to see work done on POSes as soon as POSsible. (harr)

    POSes don't have to be something 'just for POS managers.' From what CCP said before, they wanted to make POSes something for everyone, where everyone had their own POS of varying sizes and functionalities, allowing all sorts of fun things like mobile cynoing bases, automated mining and refining stations, cloaking raider bases, etc. I thought the idea was to make the POS not just for POS managers. Make them something that really mattered in gameplay. I want to see constellations of freefloating factories and orbital energy harvesters and automated mining stations that need protection and all manner of deployables in space to make it really feel like building a space-empire.
    aetherguy881
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #1840 - 2013-01-17 23:59:53 UTC
    Revamp needed. It effects high, low, null and unknown space.

    You're also not allowing T3 refits in WH's for those that dwell there.