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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

First post First post
Xel Set
Gallente Federation
#1801 - 2013-01-17 23:17:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Xel Set
CCP Gargant wrote:
It is good to hear that all of you are so heavily invested in the game, and specifically in things that need an overhaul. You guys still have passion for EVE and that in turn makes me more passionate for what I do here. Furthermore, it would appear that Two step, albeit being present at the CSM summit, seems to have misinterpreted what has been stated so far. That said, I want to bring three quotes from the CSM meeting minutes to your attention:

From page 19:

"Unifex: Once we have a theme, we can begin to thread the issues you've identified as needing to be prioritized into that theme. POS's, for example, desperately need some improvement. How do we fit that work into our theme? Maybe we don't do all of the modular POS work at once, but we start by making some modules, solving the hangar problem, for instance. But that new hangar module would also exist to support other new activities as part of the themed expansion. "

From page 99:

"Seagull: We have 4 things that are interacting [regarding the POSes]: the gameplay and design of the POS system, the role POSes play in achieving things in the game (its features), the technical layer (code) then manages all of this (which currently is old and needs refactoring), and art. Regarding art, there is the question of do you want to redo the art, do you want to show individual modules (as opposed to have things inside, like a station), and then you have technical issues, such as what does the rendering complexity of a scene do to client performance?"

"Seagull: The reason there's a “no” to doing [Modular POSes] right now is that it was affecting all of these areas in a way that was too big to do at once. What you're trying to do is try to find a way to get what you want, but what we need to do is go back and look at how we can separate all these layers, and figure out something reasonable, and then have Art do something that's immersive and amazing."

Nowhere has CCP stated that the Player Owned Structure system will not receive attention. Many of you have already pointed out that it is painful to use at best, a huge pile of unusable dingleberries at worst. Some talk about this being the "old" CCP appearing again but I want to assure all of you that the mistakes that happened in 2011 will not repeat themselves. CCP has only stated that THE OVERHAUL CANNOT HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE

I can't make promises for game designers or the people that make content for EVE Online. Please try to remember that. What I can do is assure you that your voices have been heard, the opinion of the CSM has been heard, and the concerns raised in this thread have been heard.

I want to specify that my support is to having POSes being given a high priority, especially with the concept of docking in them like you would a station instead of the current, clunky iteration. It would be great if they included a "window" view, enabling you to use the same exterior view you get with them now (while yet remaining docked within a hangar). Beyond that, the problem of roles limitations is even more important, in general, and needs a better solution. To me, including steps towards these changes is something that should begin occurring with the next release.
Ardent Industrial
#1802 - 2013-01-17 23:17:49 UTC
I haven't used the new pos system with the blocks instead of individual fueling components but there was a time were I managed several poses for my corp/alliance and I remember it pretty much consumed almost all my time. I would have to check them daily to make sure they were topped off.

I had to constantly check jump bridges.
Constantly check reactions.

Granted the above two aren't directly tied to poses it was still very tedious when it was all tied together.
All in all it nearly burnt me out and there was a point I wanted to quit playing cause of it.

So yea, reform the system plz.
Lan Staz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1803 - 2013-01-17 23:18:15 UTC
Private Shelter for Mad People
#1804 - 2013-01-17 23:19:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Eidric
POSes need the love.

Edit: Why cant the next theme be the modularity?
Stalker ofeveryone
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1805 - 2013-01-17 23:21:03 UTC
We need more updates for NULLSEC, not JUST for the miners/mission runners in 1.0 space.
Dawn Ramsey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1806 - 2013-01-17 23:22:01 UTC
Thank you to CCP for watching this thread, and understanding that it affects more than a small portion of EVE player base.

+1 to revamping POSs when possible/practical.
Jaiimez C
The Infamous.
#1807 - 2013-01-17 23:23:13 UTC
As an previous resident of W-Space and current resident of nullsec I most certainly feel that work on the current POS system is needed.
Maximus Andendare
Rote Kapelle
#1808 - 2013-01-17 23:23:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Andendare

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

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Jiji Hamin
Gallente Federation
#1809 - 2013-01-17 23:24:02 UTC
/signed in favor of asap POS work.
Geldorf Drakar
Sneak Squad
Legions of Ash
#1810 - 2013-01-17 23:25:46 UTC
POS's since inception have been neglected, ignored, labor intensive, and actually discourage conflict (everybody hates shooting a POS, and would much rather blow someones nice ship up).

Fixes to POS related mechanics have happened, like adjustments to Moon Minerals, but are patchwork at best, and do not present a solution of any value.

The most significant thing to ever happen to POS's was the introduction of Freighters, and Jump freighters, which turned spending hours a day fueling and hauling between several POSs into a slightly less nightmare... and just lead to an increase in the number of POSs with subsequent increase in time spent doing logistics.

....FIX POSs!

Generate conflict, remove structure grind, make them less safe (especially in wormholes :P), reinvent the POS into the conflict drivers they should have been and add greater risk.
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#1811 - 2013-01-17 23:26:09 UTC
I'd be running a POS right now except that doing so means interacting with a huuuuuuuge disaster of an system.

Worse, if I understand it right, running a POS requires I drop my corp and join an alt corp -- or make an alt, which I refuse to do -- just to handle it, due to the way the permissions ball was dropped by CCP.

Blocking off POSes from casual players also blocks off the higher end tradeskill stuff, which basically shut down any interest I had in doing so, so... welp.

Of course, Nullsec's lack of an industrial base is a long known problem, which would require nerfing Highsec (even a straight buff to Nullsec would be a "nerf" to highsec) -- so we probably should just give up on this thread. CCP won't risk alarming the bleating masses.
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#1812 - 2013-01-17 23:26:17 UTC
Please fix and preferably completely change POSes so they are not the pain in the ass they currently are, and are more in line with CCP Greyscale's vision.

1 man, 1 POS, more fun.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#1813 - 2013-01-17 23:26:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Confirming that POS have very low impact on the general Eve population. What do the ice products mined in high-sec go toward again?

Adding POS functionality outside roles makes sense economically because it increases demand on ice products considerably.

How does this fit into the enablers/instigators mentality of development?

In short how can you say POS don't affect anyone when the very roles associated with them are prohibitive?

Please make game development decisions which add value.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

NilZad Berkina
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1814 - 2013-01-17 23:29:29 UTC
Adding this voice to the growing throng of users who look forward to the POS moving up the list of CCP's priorities.

Seriously. Did you really think that POS were that unimportant to such a small portion of the community.

I hope the sentiments expressed in this thread with clarity and almost singular purpose from a wide cross section of the community are heard and understood by those who can effect change.

I urge the CSM and all who have a mind to, to press this home, make CCP realise the depth of feeling and need for reworking player owned stations.

We understand it is complex, we do not expect it over night, we want CCP to do it right and make it awesome.

We hope we have demonstrated those of us who want POS revamped are not such a small portion of the comunity after all.

Kaylem Deng
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1815 - 2013-01-17 23:30:07 UTC
POS' are so difficult to manage and learn.

You shouldn't have that many 'quirks' in a system.

Please fix this as it affects more than just a small portion of players. Entirety of 0.0 are affected daily by POS'.

Please fix these boring things so we can continue to have our fun! Sometimes running a corp is like work, and CCP should try its best to make the experience more fun and less real life grind. We all have real lives to grind - we don't need to pay subscription to another.

Real Life: I play for free!
Gallente Federation
#1816 - 2013-01-17 23:30:49 UTC
Stalker ofeveryone wrote:
We need more updates for NULLSEC, not JUST for the miners/mission runners in 1.0 space.

Nullsec gets more attention than low, high and WH combined, so, uhm, zip it?

System ideas:

Rayy Lee
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1817 - 2013-01-17 23:31:31 UTC
+1 Please fix POS!
Falin Starwen
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1818 - 2013-01-17 23:32:48 UTC
Make POS easier to learn please!!!!
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1819 - 2013-01-17 23:32:50 UTC
CCP please fix POSes

Every nullsec alliance is dependent on these, not just for moon mining but for somewhere to park supercaps , somewhere to stage in hostile territory and a driver for conflict.

Every wormhole alliance is also dependent on these. Ever seen a station in W-Space? Neither have I.

Add those two blocs up and that's a significant portion of your player base that is inconvenienced by the problems with POSes.

1. POS guns are so pointless against anything that can actually threaten a POS that they are mostly dropped in favour of Ewar and/or resists.
2. POS fuelling is an exercise in masochism.
3. The corp roles required to allow someone to fuel and maintain a POS are far from intuitive
4. You can't set your POS up to allow your bestest buddy +10 allies to get inside the shields if they aren't in your alliance. Instead you're stuck typing in a password that handily deletes itself every session change.
5. You announced a POS revamp as a forthcoming feature last year. Going back on your promises is not good business practice if you want to build your reputation and not slide back into the line of thinking that led to the summer of rage.

Think about it. You've got 2 serious competitors on the horizon which both received a ton of crowdsourced funding from your current player base (Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous). If you want to keep your market share when you no longer have the monopoly on Internet Spaceships you need to start listening to your customers, and the CSM that represents us.

Just last week my corp had one of it's unsung heroes of POS management burn out and throw in the towel. That's one person who's money you're at risk of losing altogether purely because of how cumbersome it is to look after these annoying but necessary structures right now.
Celly Smunt
Neutin Local LLC
#1820 - 2013-01-17 23:34:22 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Andski wrote:
In two short years playing this game, I've done more with POS than I care to speak about. I've set up staging POS, tech mining POS, deathstars and dickstars, etc and the only thing I haven't done is set up a reaction farm, because it makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Believe me when I say that I don't do it out of enjoyment, because it isn't enjoyable, but simply because somebody needs to do it. Having to pan the camera around to move green boxes into place is miserable and that needs improvement. I can tolerate the two 30 minute timers for putting up a large tower, since I can just set a stopwatch, but having to place each little green box for each gun in place, fly up to each group of guns to shove ammo into them (hope you're using lasers with T1 crystals) prior to onlining is a bit ridiculous. You're talking about spending 2-3 hours on a single large tower setup.

And then there's the fact that POS guns don't pose a threat of any sort to supercaps, a few of which will defang a full deathstar POS in minutes. Then comes more fun: bringing in carriers WITH UNBONUSED HULL REPS to fix everything up and having to online everything once again.

This man? He's one of those enablers a POS revamp would help, and by helping him, help the rest of us.

yes and aside from the LOW/NULL sec aspects of his post, I've been through and done everything he's said there with our POSes.

and it bites...

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.