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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

First post First post
Author
Mascha Tzash
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#701 - 2013-01-17 14:06:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Mascha Tzash
I allow myself to say that anyone within CCP will neither read this or hear from this thread nor will anyone within CCP takes any action out of this protest. Some Falcon or Eterne might see it, report it a the meeting in a way like "Yeah. Some players still anoy us with this LEGO-POS thing which turned out to be too complex and we don't want to tell them." I don't expect anything more than this.

I want new POSes.

The quote "we need to ask ourselves what is the best bang for our developer buck" just tells that CCP stoped shooting for the stars and startet to be a company like EA, Sony or Vivendi; in short boring.
I'm deeply disapointed.
Lukas Rox
Aideron Technologies
#702 - 2013-01-17 14:07:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lukas Rox
Iniquita wrote:
Here are a few things that are wrong with pos presently:

POS roles are horrible. In order to let someone do something with a single pos you have to grant them roles which allow them to mess with every other tower you have. You are not able to assign roles to specific towers, systems, constellations, individuals, or groups. This is a problem for wormhole dwellers as well who live in their pos for extended periods of time.

POS setup is a painful mechanic Right now when setting up a tower you must manipulate a green box into a position at least 45km or so from the pos in order to anchor it, you must do this for each module. The process of anchoring a large number of modules becomes one of tedious camera manipulation and counting modules to ensure they are placed properly.

The amount of keyboard time required to setup a large deathstar pos of the type used for staging in deployment systems can easily exceed 2-3 hours. This is the amount of time required simply to online all the modules, not move them, manipulate thier position, or fill them with ammo.

A large alliance requires significant out game tools to manage POS tasks such as: Notifying logistics when pos need fueled, notification of a structure attack, figuring out fuel needs, etc...

The stront timing mechanic is incredibly tedious, annoying to calculate, and strontium has an incredibly large volume.

If you've ever tried to move a supercap or especially a titan around in a pos bubble or during a mass login you'll understand how bumping and pos also present an interesting challenge. Additionally some pos modules such as a ship maintenance array have an incredibly small refitting range making it more practical to unanchor and move the module rather than try and navigate your titan in range.

You are also unable to swap t3 subsystems on a ship maintenance array requiring wormhole dwellers to find a station in k-space if they wish to swap subsystems on their ships.

Please do not abandon this pos revamp, it impacts more players than you are willing to admit



Very insightful post. As a person who has to do with POSes on a daily basis I cant agree more.

POS system needs a ground up revamp, or at least serious maintenance. Setting up mods is just barely better because of reduced anchor/online timers. We need better GUI. We need better linking UI - one similar to the PI wouldn't be bad. POS fitting window would not be a bad idea. More control over who has access where would also help a lot.

Please cosider it - the amount of ppl who have to interact with POSs might be small, but we who do are enablers for the rest of our corp mates. Reducing fuel types to 1 was great idea, but it was only the tip of an iceberg.

Proud developer of LMeve: Industry Contribution and Mass Production Tracker: https://github.com/roxlukas/lmeve | Blogging about EVE on http://pozniak.pl/wp/

Nash MacAllister
Air
The Initiative.
#703 - 2013-01-17 14:08:35 UTC
CCP,

While I have been somewhat skeptical of many of the POS revamp ideas floating around, doing nothing at all is absolutely the wrong tactic. Currently, because the POS mechanics and management are SO TERRIBAD, it effects all of our Corp operations. Security management is an absolute joke and every time you allow access necessary for members to complete daily tasks, you are opening up the whole corp to sabotage from within. Our recruiting security has to be so strict, due mainly to the horrible POS security management, that we often turn prospective members away for even the slightest hint they may be a security risk. Perhaps you should consider the fact that if the POS issues were addressed, wh dwellers would be a much larger portion of the Eve community. But, while I speak as a wh dweller, I know firsthand these flaws effect many many Eve players.

If nothing more, we need individual SMA/CHA access coupled with Corp SHA/CHA tabs with assignable access. On top of that, there has to be a way to allow individual members to manage production and gas reactions without compromising the security of the entire POS or forcing Directors to do all the dirty work on a daily basis. But, there has to be work done to overall POS security and management. It cannot wait.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Nash MacAllister
CEO - The Kairos Syndicate

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...

Derek Itinen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#704 - 2013-01-17 14:09:01 UTC
POS revamp is the feature I am most interested in out of all I have ever seen, and I don't even use POSes.
Tusko Hopkins
Puritans
#705 - 2013-01-17 14:09:09 UTC
It's high time that something is done about POSes, they are a pain in the ass in their current form. We just read a dev blog about "Enablers" and "Instigators" by CCP Seagull, well, POSes definitely act as "enablers" for a lot of different operations. It's far from true that only those who are actively running POSes would be benefiting from POS changes.

About the possible target audience of the change: the stuff from CCP we heard about the in-design POS system was stuff like a "mobile habitat" you can upgrade and maybe even move. They said that they wanted everyone to have a spot in this dark and hostile galaxy they can call their home. This idea suggests that by designing a new POS system CCP did not only want to reimplement and tweak the existing system, but also wanted to broaden the circle of pilots actually running a POS. And this immediately cancels CCP Unifex' argument about how few people would be affected by a POS revamp.

I believe their original idea of redoing the POS system by also expanding it in way that allows anyone to have his own little POS was a pretty good one. They must have failed to come up with an idea that would enable the majority of the players to make use of a new POS system or something.
atomtoaster
Ministry of Furious Retribution
Fraternity.
#706 - 2013-01-17 14:10:07 UTC
Fix Posses CCP!

Kick Heim!

AOC. is recruiting! Visit our recruitment thread or join 'aoc public'  ingame and make the channel blink!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=228341&find=unread

Heimdallofasgard
Ministry of Furious Retribution
Fraternity.
#707 - 2013-01-17 14:10:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Heimdallofasgard
atomtoaster wrote:
Fix Posses CCP!

Kick Heim!


:D

Edit: This is what I do when I'm in uni avoiding a deadline at 9am tomorrow morning.
Invitus
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#708 - 2013-01-17 14:11:02 UTC
This is important.
Mr TD
Perkone
Caldari State
#709 - 2013-01-17 14:11:07 UTC
While I don't care about modular POSes what you need to fix is POS:es usability both when it comes to setting one up, using and managing.
WInter Borne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#710 - 2013-01-17 14:11:09 UTC
Take your time CCP, its not like we havent been waiting several years already.
Lorilath
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#711 - 2013-01-17 14:11:15 UTC
These need fixing. The one pos I ran was a huge pita
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#712 - 2013-01-17 14:11:15 UTC
Now would be a great time for CCP to release a statement or make a DEV post saying that their words have been 'misinterpreted' and that revamping the POS system is very much in the plans for the coming year

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

SteelDragon
HeartVenom Inc.
#713 - 2013-01-17 14:11:53 UTC
The POS system needs a TOTAL overhaul. How 'bout it CCP?
DaveTheGreat
Mine 'N' Refine
Goonswarm Federation
#714 - 2013-01-17 14:13:43 UTC
Please fix POSes
Cal Becka
Axiom Sprocket
#715 - 2013-01-17 14:13:50 UTC
POS's suck. I ran a network of 5 towers last year and it killed my enjoyment of the game.
I currently co-run a POS in highsec. they need a revamp. and i was seriously looking forward to modular POS's. i personaly wouldn 't be averse to an entire expansion revolving around POS's.
Novarria
B0rthole
#716 - 2013-01-17 14:13:54 UTC
I join my fellow Wormhole dwellers in beseeching you to reconsider your apparent abandonment of the POS revamp plans. This is an acknowledged broken aspect of the game that affects far more players than you seem to think it does based on the minutes. Please consider devoting the necessary resources to following through on this necessary revamp.
FalconX Blast
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#717 - 2013-01-17 14:14:42 UTC
Focusing on what CCP believes the masses want creates debacles like Incarna. Sometimes you have to listen to what even the 1% are telling you because they are the ones creating the in-game content that tens of thousands of players are benefiting from (whether those players realize it or not). There shouldn't be a single uninterested player, those not showing interest are simply ignorant of where “stuff” comes from and fat/dumb/happy consuming the efforts of others.

If we can improve the experience at the top of the chain, benefits will trickle throughout the rest of the playerbase. I’ve been in multiple corporations that had great guys in it, but only 1-2 dudes in leadership that sacrificed their game time to struggle running the POS to give 100-150 dudes a reason for playing and interacting with each other. Those 1-2 dudes in leadership got burned out. The current POS design is directly responsible for multiple dedicated leaders being burnt out and leaving the game.

The idea of “high-level content” in EVE should not be to burn out the leadership of corporations, those few leaders trying to build something to support their band of 100+ dudes, to the point where they are unsubbing from EVE and leaving those followers hanging. Those followers are then themselves left to contemplate whether they too should unsub or go through all of the pain of finding another home and a new group of friends to continue playing the game with.

Bad POS design creates unsubs.
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#718 - 2013-01-17 14:14:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Ungabungas
Maybe we should do a POS protest where we siege all the POS in Jita and burn them to the ground.

Some of them are quite the **** stars.

Ed: apparently they are all gone, or maybe I imagined them - I am kind of disappointed though. Cry
JamesCLK
#719 - 2013-01-17 14:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: JamesCLK
Tippia wrote:
That means at least a third of the players in this game are directly affected by how POSes work and interact with them on a regular basis, and pretty much everyone else will be indirectly affected.

That is not “a small portion”. It is a pretty large portion. It is a portion on the same scale as how many run missions. It is also a very weak excuse unless they can specify it further and explain what they mean.


Hence my 100k guesstimate; or ~22% of EVE; with some generous low-balling to boot. It's probably closer to what you're guessing.
In other words: POS towers are, bar none, the single most influential piece of player infrastructure in the game. For CCP Unifex and CCP Soundwave to deny this is preposterous.

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.

Ciara Talari
Intergalactic Republic Of Wadiya
Beanstalk Inc.
#720 - 2013-01-17 14:18:42 UTC
FalconX Blast wrote:
Focusing on what CCP believes the masses want creates debacles like Incarna. Sometimes you have to listen to what even the 1% are telling you because they are the ones creating the in-game content that tens of thousands of players are benefiting from (whether those players realize it or not). There shouldn't be a single uninterested player, those not showing interest are simply ignorant of where “stuff” comes from and fat/dumb/happy consuming the efforts of others.

If we can improve the experience at the top of the chain, benefits will trickle throughout the rest of the playerbase. I’ve been in multiple corporations that had great guys in it, but only 1-2 dudes in leadership that sacrificed their game time to struggle running the POS to give 100-150 dudes a reason for playing and interacting with each other. Those 1-2 dudes in leadership got burned out. The current POS design is directly responsible for multiple dedicated leaders being burnt out and leaving the game.

The idea of “high-level content” in EVE should not be to burn out the leadership of corporations, those few leaders trying to build something to support their band of 100+ dudes, to the point where they are unsubbing from EVE and leaving those followers hanging. Those followers are then themselves left to contemplate whether they too should unsub or go through all of the pain of finding another home and a new group of friends to continue playing the game with.

Bad POS design creates unsubs.



This ^^