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CSM - Do you think? (... continued)

First post First post
Author
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#241 - 2011-09-27 21:27:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Making a generalization of the "largest state" in terms of size, in order to make an metaphorical argument is usually acceptable to people not as anal retentive as you.


It's the size of Texas Mr President!
But wait its Spherical! Thus it has far more mass then a "flat" object would and your representation of it's size is epic fail Billy Bob thornton!

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Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#242 - 2011-09-27 21:30:19 UTC
Seleene... my question is what made it come up?

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Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#243 - 2011-09-27 23:25:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
I don't have a problem with high-end ores in wormholes at all - surely there's just enough ore being mined out of there that we can shoot other dudes instead of having to grind up industrial indexes and mine it ourselves (not really, most high-ends come from compound drops in the drone regions AFAIK) I could see why some would have a problem with them being in low-class wormholes, though, being much too accessible from highsec without the :effort: of arranging cynos and whatnot.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Jenshae Chiroptera
#244 - 2011-09-28 12:51:17 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
As it stands, how can people not view the CSM with scepticism?

You should always view your elected representatives with scepticism. Fortunately, Mittens makes this easy! Twisted


Heeehheeeeheee!
Thanks for the laugh. Big smile

Seleene wrote:
.... and is welcome to read back on my blog to when I was running to find out more. ...


I have been reading your blog. I like it but it makes me a little despondent. What can the players or CSM do if you couldn't pull it off working from the inside?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#245 - 2011-09-28 13:05:46 UTC
Steph Wing wrote:

That doesn't answer my question. I'll repeat it again so you can take another stab at it:


Split the vote by region? Have CSM positions that reflect the regions of space to try prevent it getting imbalanced in any one direction.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#246 - 2011-09-28 14:09:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Steph Wing wrote:

That doesn't answer my question. I'll repeat it again so you can take another stab at it:


Split the vote by region? Have CSM positions that reflect the regions of space to try prevent it getting imbalanced in any one direction.



And Then...


Quote:
I have 3 accounts, I should be allowed 1 vote.
I should not be allowed to inflate a vote 3 fold over people who only have 1 account (the obviousness is obvious) to do so greatly increases the likelihood of manipulation and thus, conflicts of interest.

1 ISP = 1 vote
1 credit card account = 1 vote



Hey look we fixed it!
But let me guess... it will "take too much allocation of resources to do and it cannot be a priority?" Well then, why ******* bother having a vote in the first place then? Is it just for show?

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Jenshae Chiroptera
#247 - 2011-09-28 23:28:03 UTC
It wouldn't matter if there was two representatives of every type of space. People just vote as much as they like for the different candidates, those standing for high sec, low, etc.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

pussnheels
Viziam
#248 - 2011-09-29 04:38:29 UTC
After reading this thread and previous threads about the CSM and the goons i come to believe that the current CSM chairman is a absolute jerk and attentionwhore and to be honest with all these allegations about RMT , botting and general bad behaviour should be banned as several others Alliance leaders for allowing and even encouraging such behaviour

About the CSM
my opinion aslong the CSM represent less than 20% of the players base ( people who actually voted) CSM will only be a publicity tool with very limited influence on how and what direction EVE will evolve , ( and also so easily rigged in favor of a certain group of players
There some good members in there who really are trying their best but then again if you got a jerk as a chairman who s alliance only goal is to ruin the game for everyone else , what can you expect
lots of empty words

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

Jenshae Chiroptera
#249 - 2011-10-22 14:45:25 UTC
So ... in light of the recent article ... was this thread the cause of it or did I just see it coming?

What are your views on the CSM?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

David Grogan
NerdHerd
#250 - 2011-10-22 15:10:45 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
El'Niaga wrote:


A single 0.0 system can support a dozen players at a time, and that's the real problem. Until a system can support hundreds of players at one time you'll never see a significant immigration to 0.0. 0.0 today cannot support a fifth of the population that hi sec can.


since ccp nerfed 0.0 most systems can barely support half a dozen players.

there is only a limited number of dead end systems..... and its very hard make a decent income in pipe systems due to alot of nuet/red traffic.

anoms are a joke in most systems that payout bounties that are less than level 3 missions do in high sec.

alot of systems have roids that are no better than high sec.

cyno jammers sov fees cost too much.

and soon pos fuels will become alot more expensive to produce.

also CCP need to introduce hidden depletable ice belts in 0.0 that have other types of isotopes than the regional type.

change high sec ice belts so the roids deplete

double the yield of isotopes/ozone/heavy water/stronthium that only low sec/null sec ice cubes give, but make the belts hidden belts.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.

Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#251 - 2011-10-22 15:34:02 UTC
David Grogan wrote:


anoms are a joke in most systems that payout bounties that are less than level 3 missions do in high sec.


wonderful web team, love that ganked message


given that sanctums etc were nerfed because as I see on the forums all the time "they were making more money than lvl 4s in high sec qqqqqq"

That oughta tell you something Id think

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Elson Tamar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2011-10-22 15:40:20 UTC
Hi I'm a new player so i thought i'd put my 2isk in.

I'm not a carebear by the discription (although my PVP record is upsetting to say the least, please mail me if you want to take me under your wing and show me the ropes), however i enjoy hi sec at the moment. I've work my butt off and invested a lot of time in EVE and pay the same amount of money to CCP every month. I have a corp that is almost breaking even and a bunch of people i like flying with, some own snowball launchers, some just got their first frigate.

I want to go to low and null one day, just not yet, thats my choice. However there are a couple of things that do stand out.

One, is that i dont want to be forced into low and null yet by game mechanics, that make me play the game i pay for in a different way to how it was when i bought it. Also i want as much love as low and null, as long as i get it i'll be happy. Just make sure it's love for everyone.

Two, bitter veterens, my god can i play the game my way! This isn't aimed at everyone, but do i get sick of being told thatif if im not out murdering someone and then violating the corpse im not playing the game properly! I thought the point of this game was a sandbox, not doing what your told by elitests you seem to get off on being rude to CCP's NEW CUSTOMERS. Rant over, on a serious note however i'm a LARPer, roleplayer martial artist and many other things, and in all of those social groups there is always the idoit who knows best and belittles others for not knowing/agreeing. EVE apparently attracts them. Im not talking about pirates, in fact every pirate that has Ganked me has been polite and very cool. You know the people i'm talking about.

Three, If what the origonal poster has said is true that the largest faction in EVE has staff in it, i might suggest that at the very least they themselves may want to look at what others on the outside may think of this. At the very least.

Anyway i'm sure that my coments are missinformed and wrong, or at least i may be told that they are, but i am only saying what i have seen so far.

Fly Safe
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#253 - 2011-10-22 15:47:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Elson Tamar wrote:


Three, If what the origonal poster has said is true that the largest faction in EVE has staff in it, i might suggest that at the very least they themselves may want to look at what others on the outside may think of this. At the very least.


Being that youre new Id say google "T20 EVE"and "Devs and the friends they keep" (see below) for a record as to why its bad for CCP employees to be in the biggest alliances in EVE

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/847-Jumpgate-EVEs-Devs-and-the-Friends-They-Keep

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#254 - 2011-10-22 15:56:12 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Elson Tamar wrote:


Three, If what the origonal poster has said is true that the largest faction in EVE has staff in it, i might suggest that at the very least they themselves may want to look at what others on the outside may think of this. At the very least.


Being that youre new Id say google "T20 EVE"and "Devs and the friends they keep" (see below) for a record as to why its bad for CCP employees to be in the biggest alliances in EVE

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/847-Jumpgate-EVEs-Devs-and-the-Friends-They-Keep


That was a terrible alliance though.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Rocky Deadshot
In The Goo
EVE Trade Alliance
#255 - 2011-10-22 15:59:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Rocky Deadshot
Look this whole war between null and the rest is starting to get really annoying. I enjoy high sec cause I came to this game with 0 friends and made friends that are in high sec... and frankly I haven't met but a few pilots that have a maturity level high enough that I would follow them out on low/null runs.
Both sides need to admit the other exists for a reason. There will never be a point in which null sec wont exist or high sec wont exist... so everyone just needs to get over themselves.

The reason Null sec rules the CSM is cause high sec has no mechanic that helps unite it. Up until incursions, high sec was pretty much all solo work. So high sec players need to realize that it is unlikely that they will be able to get anyone on CSM since their voting isnt united.

Null sec players need to realize that alot of the issues with why "null sec is dieing" has more to do with problems within null sec itself. The CSM has done a pretty good job at pushing CCP to address these. But they also need to recognize that "bitter high sec vets" arent just gonna up and leave their homes to come out to null... neither are the newer players (at least not a massive amount of them). The reason for this has many factors... from maturity, to sentimental attachment to their ships, to some misguided idea that you need good skills to fly pvp.

One thing null sec players can do to encourage players to come to null sec is by being helpful and nice on the forums... by answering questions in game... and by being a good representative of their corps (ya i've actually met people like this). If CCP continues to have reasons like incursions in high sec for players to forum fleets... this will provide opportunities for players interact with individuals from all across eve and to encourage dialog and comfort with the idea of trusting the people you fly with.

Thanks to incursion fleets, I'm considering taking my logistics pilot and possibly some corp mates out to low/null sometime... And I feel like my case isn't solitary... that many newer pilots get into incursions... and just love the fleet format (especially logistic runners), so they find a way out where the real action is.

anyways,
Fly Safe guys/gals
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#256 - 2011-10-22 16:00:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Elson Tamar wrote:


Three, If what the origonal poster has said is true that the largest faction in EVE has staff in it, i might suggest that at the very least they themselves may want to look at what others on the outside may think of this. At the very least.


Being that youre new Id say google "T20 EVE"and "Devs and the friends they keep" (see below) for a record as to why its bad for CCP employees to be in the biggest alliances in EVE

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/847-Jumpgate-EVEs-Devs-and-the-Friends-They-Keep


That was a terrible alliance though.


doesnt change the fact that CCP has a bad history of this....

Getting caught once makes me more than willing to believe this happens more than that. I doubt it was an isolated thing

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Reislier
#257 - 2011-10-22 17:00:20 UTC
From the business perspective.
When Hilmar said something to the effect of " pay attention to what people do, not what they say"
He was quite right, though that opinion might have been best kept to himself.
I'm sure he thought many times since.. "now why did I write that down?"
But we all say the right things at the wrong time now and then..
Like when my first wife asked me if I thought she should join a gym.

Follow the money.
Where are the majority of CCP customers playing?
Where are the minority of customers playing?
Who are the highest number of Eve customers?
Is the ratio of various playstyles evenly distributed and does it have to be?
Does the interaction, both in game play and game economy, require playstyle parity? I think no.

In online games in general, what is the ratio of pvp / pve players?
Dose the ratio of pvp / pve players require parity for a game to succeed?
What is the success rate of converting a player from pvp to pve playstyle or vise versa?
That is the.. 20 million dollar question.. which I think it actually was.

The ratio of pvp and pve players in Eve conforms to the typical ratio that I have seen in online games over the last 15 years that I have played online games.

I suggest that:
Eve is not broken.
It is typical of pvp/pve game subscription rates.
The game will grow with the same ratio of playstyles.
Nerfs and incentives do not alter playstyles, but do alter subscription numbers.
A change from left to right is like altering idealogies.. good luck with that.
Bob yesterday, goons today, the flaming dust bunnies tomorrow.. life goes on.
Enhance both playstyles, nerf neither.

Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI.
Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences.
Add something new and different (a new kind of wormhole with pie?) to experiement and see what happens..

Don't break what is.

Be nice. If nice not work, be civil. If civil not work, beat with iron pipe till bloody and still.

Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#258 - 2011-10-22 18:19:29 UTC
Quote:
Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI.
Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences.
Add something new and different (a new kind of wormhole with pie?) to experiement and see what happens..

Don't break what is.



Jesus... best post ever... Shocked
I am putting that in my signature until EVE right's itself Big smile

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Jenshae Chiroptera
#259 - 2011-10-22 23:38:43 UTC
OP updated with links and quote.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Elson Tamar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#260 - 2011-10-23 00:06:34 UTC
before i ignite somthing, i had a sudden thought about this.

I am not saying CCP employees are up to no good, but people could and will assume, especially if they are part of a large disliked alliance. That was my only point on that.

Addressing the point above, yep your right there is alot of hate directed at high sec, now im new and dont now the histroy, but when i read that i am a '******* carebear noob, waste of space' or that empire players are basicly cowards or ISK horders, it really dosnt make me want to join an alliance.

Im all for how hard core this game is, its why i play eve and not world or warcrack. What the Goons are doing with the Ice is a stroke of genius and for once is acts of violence for a REASON, not just for the sake of it (although my insurer wouldn't pay out if i crashed my car, always though in eve you always had to pay at some level, and lets face it sec loss for a throw away alt or lowsec character isn't a loss.)

My problem is with players who tell me my way of playing is wrong or are just obnoxious to new customers becasue of an inferiority/superiority complex. Now CSM want o look at that? How do you retain custommers and bring low, null and high sec together so they are ALL dependent on each other? Now that would actually be useful.

At the moment i am assuming that the origonal poster is wrong and the CSM is not just pushing the alliance/null sec agenda and rather like our real life poloticians need to do put the needs of this game ahead of their own needs/popularity with the electorate.