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New NPC AI, how about no?

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Mund Richard
#21 - 2012-12-09 20:24:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:

We already found a class 5 WH, were farming them in capitals and I assure you that with the new AI changes this is much more isk/hour efficient and personally i think its easier than a 10/10 ded plex since a triage archon outweights numerous logistics by its own. So basically were doing the same stuff as we need to do in 0.0 space exploration, the only difference that were making more money in less time. And this is WRONG.

HIGHer RISK + HARDer CONTENT should be = MORE ISK

since the AI update that is NOT TRUE.

Well, I would claim that your Archon costs more so the risk is higher in case you get jumped, but it's by magnitudes more sturdy than a Logi, and with Faction battleships being where they are, plus how you put prolly bling on both, the only difference is the added hassle of using a Capital.

And I'm not sure how that matters, or if it balances anything.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-12-10 07:19:24 UTC
Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:
HIGHer RISK + HARDer CONTENT should be = MORE ISK


keep singing that song, the baby is almost asleep now.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#23 - 2012-12-10 12:39:12 UTC
to be honest, i read your comments 3 times a row and couldnt decipher what they meant to be. But anyways daily bump for my mission to change npc AI, remote repair shouldnt be generating agro from NPC!
TKL HUN
Jugis Modo Utopia
#24 - 2012-12-10 13:10:48 UTC
Some personal experiences:

I used to run lvl4's sometimes in 0.0 before the patch in a tengu, there were no problems at all.

Today was the first time I tried a Worlds Collide lvl4 after the patch...well...

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?????

I have a good amount of sp, I have experience, etc etc.

I was hardly able to save my 3 bill worth tengu's ass in half hull in the last pocket.

The problem is not just the full pocket agro, but lots of frigates webbing and scramming after the patch, which didn't do this before the patch.

I know lots of new players from our training corp, they are afraid of lvl4's now, and they can't handle them...in HIGH SEC.

???????????????????????

This whole new AI thing is a big piece of crap... What did you expect from this CCP?

-Complexes? (in 0.0) hmm no, I can't do it.
-Missions? (in 0.0) hmm, no I can't handle them
-Mining? NO WAY

Then what?

You can't make money, and everything is getting more expensive, very nice...
Gerard Hareka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-12-10 14:36:43 UTC
TKL HUN wrote:
Some personal experiences:

I used to run lvl4's sometimes in 0.0 before the patch in a tengu, there were no problems at all.

Today was the first time I tried a Worlds Collide lvl4 after the patch...well...

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?????

I have a good amount of sp, I have experience, etc etc.

I was hardly able to save my 3 bill worth tengu's ass in half hull in the last pocket.

The problem is not just the full pocket agro, but lots of frigates webbing and scramming after the patch, which didn't do this before the patch.

I know lots of new players from our training corp, they are afraid of lvl4's now, and they can't handle them...in HIGH SEC.

???????????????????????

This whole new AI thing is a big piece of crap... What did you expect from this CCP?

-Complexes? (in 0.0) hmm no, I can't do it.
-Missions? (in 0.0) hmm, no I can't handle them
-Mining? NO WAY

Then what?

You can't make money, and everything is getting more expensive, very nice...


Since this affects bots as well , simple market mechanics will apply.

Less people doing missions rewards will go up - it will be worth of fleeting up.
TKL HUN
Jugis Modo Utopia
#26 - 2012-12-10 15:01:05 UTC
Gerard Hareka wrote:
TKL HUN wrote:
Some personal experiences:

I used to run lvl4's sometimes in 0.0 before the patch in a tengu, there were no problems at all.

Today was the first time I tried a Worlds Collide lvl4 after the patch...well...

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?????

I have a good amount of sp, I have experience, etc etc.

I was hardly able to save my 3 bill worth tengu's ass in half hull in the last pocket.

The problem is not just the full pocket agro, but lots of frigates webbing and scramming after the patch, which didn't do this before the patch.

I know lots of new players from our training corp, they are afraid of lvl4's now, and they can't handle them...in HIGH SEC.

???????????????????????

This whole new AI thing is a big piece of crap... What did you expect from this CCP?

-Complexes? (in 0.0) hmm no, I can't do it.
-Missions? (in 0.0) hmm, no I can't handle them
-Mining? NO WAY

Then what?

You can't make money, and everything is getting more expensive, very nice...


Since this affects bots as well , simple market mechanics will apply.

Less people doing missions rewards will go up - it will be worth of fleeting up.


Really? We did some complexes after the patch (10/10, 8/10) with 3 dps ships, and 2 logies (5 chars, 4 people total).

Nothing dropped...

Totally worth it!!

If you want to do something against bots, I can tell you where to mess things up, in anoms and belts...
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#27 - 2012-12-10 22:03:25 UTC
i copy this to my post too, i posted this on someones:



"Well, after a week of brainstorming this new npc ai i came to a point of thinking it is meant to rebalance the source of isk. So after a while you will probably be able to make lvl 3 mission and it will be better iskwise in running solo lvl4, and UberAlfred who have 120mill SP will do lvl 4 solo, or you get friends to make them. This whole concept is very nice beacause technically lvl 1-3 is thrash at the moment.

But:
- this still doesnt make agro managable
- you need to wait probably months for the isk/hour rebalance to lower lvl missions
- its unfair to widen the gap this much"
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#28 - 2012-12-11 11:31:44 UTC
daily bump so maybe a dev will answer the needs of the many!
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#29 - 2012-12-11 12:58:37 UTC
I hope they aren't "the many". I'd hate to think that "the many" was a bunch of entitled baddies who think high level PVE should be something they can solo without effort or thought and make insane amounts from.
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#30 - 2012-12-11 13:07:07 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
I hope they aren't "the many". I'd hate to think that "the many" was a bunch of entitled baddies who think high level PVE should be something they can solo without effort or thought and make insane amounts from.



said the wh dweller, to whom doesnt matter what are the AI changes since sleepers didnt change. No sir, the many are all the ppl who posted on this forum and all who didnt post, but share the dislike of the new unfair AI system. As i stated before, i moved to a class 5 wh a week ago, because in the same time with less energy investment and at the same amount of risk i get much more ISK, i say even faster than in 0.0. But youre already familiar with the amounts of isk you can make with capital escalation in a class 5 wh. So please tell me how annoyed youre with my forum posts and how skilledly you can manage the new npc ai...
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#31 - 2012-12-11 13:13:36 UTC
Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
I hope they aren't "the many". I'd hate to think that "the many" was a bunch of entitled baddies who think high level PVE should be something they can solo without effort or thought and make insane amounts from.



said the wh dweller, to whom doesnt matter what are the AI changes since sleepers didnt change. No sir, the many are all the ppl who posted on this forum and all who didnt post, but share the dislike of the new unfair AI system. As i stated before, i moved to a class 5 wh a week ago, because in the same time with less energy investment and at the same amount of risk i get much more ISK, i say even faster than in 0.0. But youre already familiar with the amounts of isk you can make with capital escalation in a class 5 wh. So please tell me how annoyed youre with my forum posts and how skilledly you can manage the new npc ai...


I completely disagree with the stuff you're saying about it taking less effort or investment in wormhole space, and the rest of what you're saying seems to rest entirely upon that. So yeah.

Tear some more, alt boy
TOPSTER
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2012-12-11 13:21:47 UTC  |  Edited by: TOPSTER
TKL HUN wrote:

You can't make money, and everything is getting more expensive, very nice...


Obamanomics in Eve 4TW! Lol
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#33 - 2012-12-11 13:22:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Caldari Citizen20121206
disagree as much as you want, i wasnt asking your opinion tough. Im independent on the NPC AI question, unlike you. Im only thinking that its unfair, that vet pilots like me with isk to invest and several high sp characters can make even more money now, while other pilots such as our training corp members and newer pilots gets the thrash. So unless you go out and try to make a lvl 4 mission on your own, or try to complete a 0.0 exploration site with a mere 3 pilot fleet, please keep your disagreement to yourself. This isnt something of your concern, wh dweller.
TOPSTER
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2012-12-11 13:31:45 UTC  |  Edited by: TOPSTER
Bottom line is this: Players will complain cause they have to adapt, Personally I dont like the new changes, well because it means I have to adapt. I LIKED the way I did things, it made me a respectable amount of isk to keep my other PVP alliance character in ships cause even though I like PVP I am pretty terrible at it... que sera. Hence the need for an income stream to support the habit but I digress.

The thing you have to realize for those of use that have been playing eve, well since Go-Live day in 2003, we have seen every change come down the pike... Remember when OMG they were going to NERF DUAL MWD Ravens doing 10K KPS? Holy hell you would have thought the world was coming to an end, oddly enough however Eve marches on with many more subscribers now than they had then. So, does all the complaining cause change? Sure, but oddly enough those that ***** never seem to be satisfied with the changes... go figureRoll

So word of advice is this, make your complaint, jump in a few threads and post your displeasure but dont bank on getting things changed back. Rather learn a new strategy to accomplish the same end. It may be that it is not as efficient as you once were but hey give it time, there are a LOT of players in Eve a LOT smarter and craftier than you or I will ever be so wait and see what they figure out, then emulate them if you cant be cutting edge yourself. Bottom line it's internet spaceships, and no it's not all THAT serious.Cool
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#35 - 2012-12-11 13:37:40 UTC
Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:
disagree as much as you want, i wasnt asking your opinion tough. Im independent on the NPC AI question, unlike you. Im only thinking that its unfair, that vet pilots like me with isk to invest and several high sp characters can make even more money now, while other pilots such as our training corp members and newer pilots gets the thrash. So unless you go out and try to make a lvl 4 mission on your own, or try to complete a 0.0 exploration site with a mere 3 pilot fleet, please keep your disagreement to yourself. This isnt something of your concern, wh dweller.


Except it is, as I've played in all areas of EVE, and I have other characters who primarily dwell in highsec and nullsec. So don't tell me what does or does not concern me, you sad little alt. And unfortunately for you, you can't stop me from chiming in with my opinions, so deal.

I have to ask why you think a mere three man fleet should be able to run what is supposed to be some of the hardest PVE content in the game in the first place. "But because we did before" isn't valid.

PS, one of my alts has done level 4s since the change. The only issue I've noticed is that some missions have everything aggro at once, which I believe a dev has already stated was a bug.
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#36 - 2012-12-11 13:57:55 UTC
Topster, this npc ai change doesnt serve anyone, its only changing the game into something that mosto f the ppl dont want and dont need. It isnt between someone and some other, its affecting everybody. Thats why its not the same.
TOPSTER
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2012-12-11 14:04:28 UTC
Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:
Topster, this npc ai change doesnt serve anyone, its only changing the game into something that mosto f the ppl dont want and dont need. It isnt between someone and some other, its affecting everybody. Thats why its not the same.


Well no actually it's not affecting everybody. Not everyone does missions. The NPC AI change does serve people, those who wanted a challenge and were bored with the PvE parts of the game. Is it the IDEAL answer to the problem? Probably not, but it IS a step in the right direction. Those silly wombats at CCP probably think that people who play the game actually like to sit in front of it and actually DO stuff...P as opposed to AFK Mission Grinding NPC's that have brain dead AI's... Aren't they silly buggers?

And there are / will be ways to still do missions, just because perhaps right now that isn't glaringly obvioous to us doesnt mean there won't be. Dev's have already said in a thread I read yesterday that the whole room agro is a bug and that a fix is in the works, so aside from that the only real issues I see are the frigates... I suppose you could say that the agro swapping might be an issue if you routinely run lvl 4's with an alt in a logi (I know I have in the past) and the logi will now get targeted too but again I still stand by my previous post.
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#38 - 2012-12-11 14:41:19 UTC
this change affected every npc besides the sleepers and incursions. Missions are only one third of the PVE npc, and im not angry because of the missions, i can see the meaning of the missions changes if you read up in my posts you can see that. Btw you should get more information before you post on something. its clear that you didnt read my previus posts and didnt read the patch notes properly.
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#39 - 2012-12-11 14:57:05 UTC
TKL HUN wrote:
Some personal experiences:

I used to run lvl4's sometimes in 0.0 before the patch in a tengu, there were no problems at all.

Today was the first time I tried a Worlds Collide lvl4 after the patch...well...

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?????

I have a good amount of sp, I have experience, etc etc.

I was hardly able to save my 3 bill worth tengu's ass in half hull in the last pocket.

The problem is not just the full pocket agro, but lots of frigates webbing and scramming after the patch, which didn't do this before the patch.

I know lots of new players from our training corp, they are afraid of lvl4's now, and they can't handle them...in HIGH SEC.

???????????????????????

This whole new AI thing is a big piece of crap... What did you expect from this CCP?

-Complexes? (in 0.0) hmm no, I can't do it.
-Missions? (in 0.0) hmm, no I can't handle them
-Mining? NO WAY

Then what?

You can't make money, and everything is getting more expensive, very nice...


Stop crying and read the forum Roll

There is a BUG in some mission where you will have the full room aggro.
TKL HUN
Jugis Modo Utopia
#40 - 2012-12-11 15:52:19 UTC
bloodknight2 wrote:
TKL HUN wrote:
Some personal experiences:

I used to run lvl4's sometimes in 0.0 before the patch in a tengu, there were no problems at all.

Today was the first time I tried a Worlds Collide lvl4 after the patch...well...

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?????

I have a good amount of sp, I have experience, etc etc.

I was hardly able to save my 3 bill worth tengu's ass in half hull in the last pocket.

The problem is not just the full pocket agro, but lots of frigates webbing and scramming after the patch, which didn't do this before the patch.

I know lots of new players from our training corp, they are afraid of lvl4's now, and they can't handle them...in HIGH SEC.

???????????????????????

This whole new AI thing is a big piece of crap... What did you expect from this CCP?

-Complexes? (in 0.0) hmm no, I can't do it.
-Missions? (in 0.0) hmm, no I can't handle them
-Mining? NO WAY

Then what?

You can't make money, and everything is getting more expensive, very nice...


Stop crying and read the forum Roll

There is a BUG in some mission where you will have the full room aggro.


Sir, I know this is a bug, but bug or not bug, it's there.

And yes, there are lots of bugs unfixed like capital modules not recieving all the bonuses from a legion booster, but nobody cares...

You know what they care about? Putting New Eden Open medals into the game (like they did today...), and removing clouds from complexes... Which are btw weren't removed, and still messing up my FPS rate...

Thx again, focus on clouds instead of bugged game mechanics.