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New NPC AI, how about no?

First post First post
Author
Sexual Death
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-12-11 15:59:06 UTC
Holy crap the worlds collide mission is as said be4 me something uber hard.
That's my experience: i warp in using my CNR and (thanks gods) i brought a friendly ceptor with me just in case.
In last pocket i catch all agro every single little bastard started to shoot my 90% resists CNR.

1)Amazingly(only after patch i realised) that NPC elite frigate dps is about 2x of NPC battleship DPS
2)They eat 250k ehp tank in under 45 seconds. They deal about 6k dps.
3)They scram u and ur cruise missiles kill their elite frigs for like 3-5 mins
4)As soon as u release drones to save urself they insta kill ur drones.
5)Only thing that saved me was my ceptor that came close to me. Entire gang of NPCs switched on uber fast ceptor thnx god it was too fast for them so they didnt kill neither me nor ceptor.
6)NPCs webs slow me by 75% however players webs can do up to 60% and have a cap on multiple webbing. NPCs webs dont have a cap they can slow u to stone if they have 5-6 webs.

So running a lvl 4 would require now 5-6 ships fleet with 2-3 logis. Drone boats are totally useless.
Sexual Death
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-12-11 16:03:46 UTC
TKL HUN wrote:
Some personal experiences:

I used to run lvl4's sometimes in 0.0 before the patch in a tengu, there were no problems at all.

Today was the first time I tried a Worlds Collide lvl4 after the patch...well...

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?????



The only thing that can save ur ass in worlds collide lvl 4 is a ceptor that can draw frigs aggro. So you quickly mwd style loot the can or shoot the armory (depending on faction of worlds collide) and run as hell. And u better have 300k+ ehp tank to that faction to make ur way to the can and back.

But if ur ceptor gets in their web range - u r fcked. I dont wanna try, just people reported that before.
Maximilian Krenn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-12-11 16:11:54 UTC
Sexual Death wrote:
TKL HUN wrote:
Some personal experiences:

I used to run lvl4's sometimes in 0.0 before the patch in a tengu, there were no problems at all.

Today was the first time I tried a Worlds Collide lvl4 after the patch...well...

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?????



The only thing that can save ur ass in worlds collide lvl 4 is a ceptor that can draw frigs aggro. So you quickly mwd style loot the can or shoot the armory (depending on faction of worlds collide) and run as hell. And u better have 300k+ ehp tank to that faction to make ur way to the can and back.

But if ur ceptor gets in their web range - u r fcked. I dont wanna try, just people reported that before.

Interestigly enough, almost every other mission now agents offer me (not to this but to some other char) is WC lol. I don't know, maybe I'm just of such luck lol.....
TOPSTER
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-12-11 18:29:03 UTC
Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:
this change affected every npc besides the sleepers and incursions. Missions are only one third of the PVE npc, and im not angry because of the missions, i can see the meaning of the missions changes if you read up in my posts you can see that. Btw you should get more information before you post on something. its clear that you didnt read my previus posts and didnt read the patch notes properly.


Didnt read the patch notes properly? LOL like, was I supposed to be sitting upright, with music playing softly in the background? Maybe while driking a cup of tea? Or should I have read them right to left? I did read your posts (Most of them anyways) and I was trying not to be trollish or ugly but they all kinda went like this:

Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:
I dont like the new patch! EVERYTHING IS OMGWTFBROKEZ!!! I cant do things like I used to do them so I am pissed and beacuse you dont agree with me 1000% you suck and are mean....


and a dukey-head!

WHINE
WHINE
WHINE

Roll

I was trying to initially be supportive and encouraging you to give it a few days and adapt to whatever the changes are or are not coming with patches, but as I can see since I didnt jump onto your bandwagon immediately and take up arms with a OMGWTFCCPAREA-HOLES!!!!!000!!!!0110110!!! then obviously I dont know WTF I am talking about at all. Continue in your rants and beat your head against the brick wall that is CCP. You will figure out what those of us that have been around a minute or two already know. Cool
Sammybear
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-12-11 18:32:41 UTC
Sexual Death wrote:
TKL HUN wrote:
Some personal experiences:

I used to run lvl4's sometimes in 0.0 before the patch in a tengu, there were no problems at all.

Today was the first time I tried a Worlds Collide lvl4 after the patch...well...

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?????



The only thing that can save ur ass in worlds collide lvl 4 is a ceptor that can draw frigs aggro. So you quickly mwd style loot the can or shoot the armory (depending on faction of worlds collide) and run as hell. And u better have 300k+ ehp tank to that faction to make ur way to the can and back.

But if ur ceptor gets in their web range - u r fcked. I dont wanna try, just people reported that before.


my 660 dps tank mach can handle angel WC, only have ~65k ehp. Not sure which faction you fight against, but angel Wc is not that hard. Well, it is way harder than before, but it is doable with a bit of strategy, and a couple module changes.
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#46 - 2012-12-11 18:48:57 UTC
Topster, i didnt wrote that second quote and if you dont have anything useful then get back to your cave and hug yourself, patting your back that you showed to us how manly you are. IF youre so uber and you have no problems at all, well by all means please capture a video for youtube and show us how hardcore a pilot you are. Guess this wont be happening.
TKL HUN
Jugis Modo Utopia
pwn-O-graphy
#47 - 2012-12-11 18:49:57 UTC
Sammybear wrote:
Sexual Death wrote:
TKL HUN wrote:
Some personal experiences:

I used to run lvl4's sometimes in 0.0 before the patch in a tengu, there were no problems at all.

Today was the first time I tried a Worlds Collide lvl4 after the patch...well...

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?????



The only thing that can save ur ass in worlds collide lvl 4 is a ceptor that can draw frigs aggro. So you quickly mwd style loot the can or shoot the armory (depending on faction of worlds collide) and run as hell. And u better have 300k+ ehp tank to that faction to make ur way to the can and back.

But if ur ceptor gets in their web range - u r fcked. I dont wanna try, just people reported that before.


my 660 dps tank mach can handle angel WC, only have ~65k ehp. Not sure which faction you fight against, but angel Wc is not that hard. Well, it is way harder than before, but it is doable with a bit of strategy, and a couple module changes.


With a bit of strategy? In the last room im dropping into the middle of the npcs, in less than 3 secs i have 4 webs and 3 points on me... :/

Btw it's Angel / Amarr navy WC.
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#48 - 2012-12-12 12:06:08 UTC
Daily bump in order to enlighten our clouded vision in the time of need, ccp is silent! Our Creators are deaf to the torment of their ppl, even tough we are the ones whom they make a living of! Will we swallow their choice no matter how it carves into our flesh?!
Ahn Tee Mahtur
#49 - 2012-12-12 12:12:53 UTC
Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:
Daily bump in order to enlighten our clouded vision in the time of need, ccp is silent! Our Creators are deaf to the torment of their ppl, even tough we are the ones whom they make a living of! Will we swallow their choice no matter how it carves into our flesh?!

Try it now.
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#50 - 2012-12-13 10:19:02 UTC
bump
TOPSTER
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2012-12-13 19:55:57 UTC
Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:
Topster, i didnt wrote that second quote and if you dont have anything useful then get back to your cave and hug yourself, patting your back that you showed to us how manly you are. IF youre so uber and you have no problems at all, well by all means please capture a video for youtube and show us how hardcore a pilot you are. Guess this wont be happening.


I am pretty sure I never claimed to be an uber pilot... although I am pretty sure that I have about twice as many skill points in Drones alone than you have on your whole spread of toons, mains and alts combined but hey it doesnt really matter. I didnt say that the new changes were not hard, I didnt say that I could solo them all now in LVL 5's with a Kestrel... YOu obviously have a hard time understanding english so i'll give you the short and sweet version that maybe you can understand...

...Ready for it?

...Here it comes....


CHANGE IS INEVITABLE, ADAPT AND STOP STAMPING YOUR FEET LIKE A 2 YEAR OLD AND POUTING.Roll

I am done with you now, so go ahead and toss in your last flame, tell me Im a moron, tell me how I am out of touch, tell me how it is impossible that ANYONE in this game might know more than YOU do... go ahead.... And post with your main or continue to be ridiculed by the populace.

Albert Einstein wrote:
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change!
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#52 - 2012-12-13 20:01:39 UTC
damn, you must have been writing and rewriting that post for a long time. Probably thats why it took for you to answer my post 2-3 days. Well, good work needs a lot of time :D . Since you claim youre done with me Im considering your post as a free bump. Thanks for all the days you invested in my topic.
Jared Falkenberg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-12-13 21:17:13 UTC
Sexual Death wrote:
So running a lvl 4 would require now 5-6 ships fleet with 2-3 logis. Drone boats are totally useless.


I've been out for awhile, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the sleeper AI primary logis? Does the new mission AI do the same thing? I had been planning to run L4 missions with a BS and an Osprey like I did before I took a break. Are they gonna just pop my Osprey and then move on to the BS?
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2012-12-14 00:25:01 UTC
Sexual Death wrote:
Holy crap the worlds collide mission is as said be4 me something uber hard.
That's my experience: i warp in using my CNR and (thanks gods) i brought a friendly ceptor with me just in case.
In last pocket i catch all agro every single little bastard started to shoot my 90% resists CNR.

1)Amazingly(only after patch i realised) that NPC elite frigate dps is about 2x of NPC battleship DPS
2)They eat 250k ehp tank in under 45 seconds. They deal about 6k dps.
3)They scram u and ur cruise missiles kill their elite frigs for like 3-5 mins
4)As soon as u release drones to save urself they insta kill ur drones.
5)Only thing that saved me was my ceptor that came close to me. Entire gang of NPCs switched on uber fast ceptor thnx god it was too fast for them so they didnt kill neither me nor ceptor.
6)NPCs webs slow me by 75% however players webs can do up to 60% and have a cap on multiple webbing. NPCs webs dont have a cap they can slow u to stone if they have 5-6 webs.

So running a lvl 4 would require now 5-6 ships fleet with 2-3 logis. Drone boats are totally useless.


your raven is supposed to be safely sniping from 200km away, and missions throw you into the middle of a kill zone.

just a thought.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2012-12-14 00:27:12 UTC
Jared Falkenberg wrote:
Sexual Death wrote:
So running a lvl 4 would require now 5-6 ships fleet with 2-3 logis. Drone boats are totally useless.


I've been out for awhile, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the sleeper AI primary logis? Does the new mission AI do the same thing? I had been planning to run L4 missions with a BS and an Osprey like I did before I took a break. Are they gonna just pop my Osprey and then move on to the BS?


NPC AI does not primary logi just because it is logi--my basilisk has to take its turn being primary just like my battleships

also: sleeper AI and drones... I ran c3 sites with drone dps just for kicks and they never targeted my drones.
Jared Falkenberg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-12-14 01:40:21 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Jared Falkenberg wrote:
Sexual Death wrote:
So running a lvl 4 would require now 5-6 ships fleet with 2-3 logis. Drone boats are totally useless.


I've been out for awhile, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the sleeper AI primary logis? Does the new mission AI do the same thing? I had been planning to run L4 missions with a BS and an Osprey like I did before I took a break. Are they gonna just pop my Osprey and then move on to the BS?


NPC AI does not primary logi just because it is logi--my basilisk has to take its turn being primary just like my battleships

also: sleeper AI and drones... I ran c3 sites with drone dps just for kicks and they never targeted my drones.


They may not primary you just because you're in a logi, but the way I remember wormholes you would draw an inordinate amount of fire for using a remote rep.

Anyway even if they're just going round robin my plan is ruined.
DrunkenNinja
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-12-14 05:24:27 UTC
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NICE NAME!
XD
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#58 - 2012-12-14 08:59:14 UTC
Basically i was running lvl 4 missions in zero sec with a full dps talos and and active tanking oneiros, this way the 2 ships had 1200 dps and 1500+ tank, a combo more than enough for any lvl 4 mission and the cost of it only 4-500 mill, half the cost of a semi pimp tengu. So technically with my high sp characters i was able to use cheap ships for high end content, same goes for 0.0 exploration, only difference is that i needed to use a machariel or a tornado with my third account. Now this setup is totally ruined, because a single logi in itself can't tank more than 2-300 dps with its self repair, making the combo's defense near useless. So either we now doing the missions in 0.0 with heavy pimped faction ships and t3, costing 2-3 billion at least, and for exploration sites wich im still soloing i have found 2 ways to "solo" with my 4 accounts. The first solution is to get in there with spider tanking legions(3 of my account have skill for legion) or some other battleship capable of spider tanking and preferably not a drone boat, the second solution is to get 2 logi ship and 1-2 very high dps ships (1200-1800 dps) capable of puttig on at least 150,000 EHP. The logi ships im using are 2 oneiros, but any tech 2 logistic should do the job if you have 2 of them, and for dps ships im using vindicators with a brute force of 1800 dps and capable of tanking at least 90% racial resist for nasty 10/10 ded sites. So my 4 accounts overall SP is likely to be near 300 mill SP, near nothing wasted SP. And on top of my high SP im forced to invest at least 4,5 bill to ships that are able to withstand the 0.0 sites. As of before patch there was very rare for us to find good exploration sites because if one popped around us it was farmed in no time by someone. Now I just go scan the nearby 3-4 systems and i can surely find some nasty sites because there is nobody in my vicinity that have 4 accounts specialized in training like mine, and the payout isnt good enough to split it 4-5 ways (most of the time the payout is 100-150 mill).


Conclusion: im making **** tonns of isk as a vet pilot, others need at least months of alt training and newer pilots with less isk simply cant do nothing besides belt ratting.

Way to fix it: Dont let npc to agro on logi as long as its not shooting, or give us tools to control threat. Simple as that.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Goonswarm Federation
#59 - 2012-12-14 09:02:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
I include my logi in a cap chain and it can run its large ancillary booster on auto repeat... empty. while also running two large shield transfers.

it warps in and fights with its light drones right next to my battleships (with their un-bonused transfer range)

your logi kung-fu is weak
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#60 - 2012-12-14 09:04:43 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I include my logi in a cap chain and it can run its large ancillary booster on auto repeat... empty

it warps in and fights with drones right next to my battleships

your logi kung-fu is weak




you put cap transfers on your bs and cap chain with your logi?