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Capsuleers and Their "Crews"

First post First post
Author
Shou Kaukonen
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#201 - 2012-11-09 17:51:18 UTC
Thanks for posting Eterne, it's nice to get the 'official' line on this aspect of the backstory. Also, you reminded me of one or two important things I already knew, but was forgetting about - like the indications that people who can afford to undergo capsuleer training tend to already be crazy wealthy (one of the available splats is a member of the Amarrian ruling class, after all), which casts things in a different light.

For crews, couldn't we say that crew funds are taken out of market taxes? Given the nature of the ship market, it makes a kind of sense that concord, who collects the taxes, might have a vested interest in handling such things, if for no other reason than to keep crews from getting stiffed by greedy capsuleers. No idea how much sense that really makes, just something I came up with off the cuff.
David Laurentson
Laurentson INC
#202 - 2012-11-09 19:56:38 UTC
Shandir wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
2) Players are only a portion of the capsuleers in the backstory. At least some number of capsuleers do continue to work for the empires directly.


I'm from the State War Academy, and i turned my back on them from day one. Yet, they keep paying for my basic clones and (i suppose) they keep paying my crew's sallary.

I don't get this.


The basic clone is provided by CONCORD.

Crew salary is provided by - OH MY GOD WHAT'S THAT BEHIND YOU?!

*runs away*


Crew salary is included in base ship costs?


Pretty sure the Lore used to be that 1 ISK would be a well-paid annual salary. As a result, mortal crew are paid out of rounding errors in your regular activities.
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#203 - 2012-11-09 21:49:54 UTC
Hrm. Out of curiosity, David, do you have a source on that? I'm not doubting you, more thinking it may be a source from before my time as an RPer.

The news article I have seen suggest someone might accrue the equivalent of around 10,000 ISK over a lifetime; a lot of people (myself included) play this out to an assumption that an average yearly salary might be around 100-200 ISK.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#204 - 2012-11-10 03:21:17 UTC
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#205 - 2012-11-10 13:18:43 UTC
Esna Pitoojee wrote:
Hrm. Out of curiosity, David, do you have a source on that? I'm not doubting you, more thinking it may be a source from before my time as an RPer.

The news article I have seen suggest someone might accrue the equivalent of around 10,000 ISK over a lifetime; a lot of people (myself included) play this out to an assumption that an average yearly salary might be around 100-200 ISK.


This is closer to the current lore assumption than the 1 ISK = a lifetime's pay thing. An old comparison I always heard was that the cost of a shuttlecraft is roughly enough to keep a family of four fed, clothed, housed, etc for a whole year. That might not be the current thinking on the topic, but considering that a shuttle is the size of a small airplane, it's not out of the question.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents

Nicen Jehr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2012-11-10 15:05:11 UTC
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#207 - 2012-11-10 15:28:55 UTC
Nicen Jehr wrote:
Oh my god, we are the 1%


.0000000000001%

Where I am.

Shou Kaukonen
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#208 - 2012-11-10 19:17:29 UTC
Occupy Jita!!!Evil
Nayo Renyk
Armored Corps
#209 - 2012-11-11 23:40:56 UTC
As far as crew salary is concerned, I would imagine some sort of contract would be signed by them for some insignificant percentage of the capsuleers income (say ~1% if not less). It makes perfect sense considering its been done that way irl for many years back in the days of applicable naval ship warfare (That is, the captian gets all the booty then splits it with the crew after). Even a simple level 1 mission in a frigate would reward the capsuleer ~100,000.00 ISK - 300,000.00 ISK which would be up to 3,000.00 ISK for the crew of 1-3 which would make for some very happy space sailors.
Renan Ruivo
Hengetools Consumer Products S.A.
#210 - 2012-11-12 17:47:50 UTC
Shandir wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
2) Players are only a portion of the capsuleers in the backstory. At least some number of capsuleers do continue to work for the empires directly.


I'm from the State War Academy, and i turned my back on them from day one. Yet, they keep paying for my basic clones and (i suppose) they keep paying my crew's sallary.

I don't get this.


The basic clone is provided by CONCORD.

Crew salary is provided by - OH MY GOD WHAT'S THAT BEHIND YOU?!

*runs away*


Crew salary is included in base ship costs?


But then what about the ships you build yourself?

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Renan Ruivo
Hengetools Consumer Products S.A.
#211 - 2012-11-12 17:49:45 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
Esna Pitoojee wrote:
Hrm. Out of curiosity, David, do you have a source on that? I'm not doubting you, more thinking it may be a source from before my time as an RPer.

The news article I have seen suggest someone might accrue the equivalent of around 10,000 ISK over a lifetime; a lot of people (myself included) play this out to an assumption that an average yearly salary might be around 100-200 ISK.


This is closer to the current lore assumption than the 1 ISK = a lifetime's pay thing. An old comparison I always heard was that the cost of a shuttlecraft is roughly enough to keep a family of four fed, clothed, housed, etc for a whole year. That might not be the current thinking on the topic, but considering that a shuttle is the size of a small airplane, it's not out of the question.


Well, if the shuttle is purchased in a mission hub then yes, the real-money-value in PLEX to purchase one would feed a neckbeard that eats for four for one year Lol

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#212 - 2012-11-13 02:07:30 UTC
Crew salaries are very easy to account for. They could be a part of what taxes you pay to your corporation (NPC or Player created), with every mission you run. They could also be a part of the bounties you collect from Concord when killing pirate faction mobs. They could also be a part of all of the bult in costs, seen and unseen of you about every activity in EVE we do.

I would actually like to see EVE (CPP) phase in the true costs of running our ships and corporations. Making those unseen costs, become seen and felt.

For a ship I would like for there to be:

1. Crew Pay, which we can set and could have a mdofier attached to it based on on little or much we do pay.

2. Fuel cost (yes it is a new money sink), this would add some more realism.

3. Expanded docking services and fees based on those services.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#213 - 2012-11-17 13:16:23 UTC
Bluddwolf wrote:


1. Crew Pay, which we can set and could have a mdofier attached to it based on on little or much we do pay.

2. Fuel cost (yes it is a new money sink), this would add some more realism.

3. Expanded docking services and fees based on those services.


I've always assumed that we eventually discovered cold fusion and we had clean and nearly-infinite energy for our ships (that's why your capacitor regens over time).
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#214 - 2012-12-01 02:14:41 UTC
Yet another related question: How many "civilian / support" employees would there be in a typical corporation, made up of just a few capsuleers?

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

Shou Kaukonen
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#215 - 2012-12-01 03:40:10 UTC
Keep in mind the kind of computer tech new eden has. Wouldn't you be able to automate most clerical/drudgery roles?
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#216 - 2012-12-01 11:22:25 UTC
Shou Kaukonen wrote:
Keep in mind the kind of computer tech new eden has. Wouldn't you be able to automate most clerical/drudgery roles?


I don't get the impression that technology has replaced the nameless, faceless masses of low paid clerical workers in the mega corporate model.

The types of men and women who run these corporations crave power. There is no exercised power in firing a computer or robot.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#217 - 2012-12-01 11:34:08 UTC
Least Amarrian holders like myself get a free ride on crew costs ^_^

Although I am also under the assumption that each capsuleer has a whole host of support employees. For a rookie pilot in a noobship that may be only 10 people, but for people with planetary facilities, capital ships, and many other holdings under their personal command, could be hundreds of thousands. Personally I imagine a whole command structure under me taking care of everything that would be too time consuming to do personally.
LOL56
Sunken Colony
#218 - 2012-12-02 20:09:56 UTC
I ran some numbers and i would peg my personal fleet at a strength (equating ships based on role and cost and not name) at approximately that of France or Italy giving me some 35000ish employes. At 200 ISK per person per year, this amounts to a piddly 7 million in wages per year. For the record I own 2 capitals, ~25 significant sub capitals and ~20 insignificant sub-capitals (over/under 50 mil in hull cost).
Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#219 - 2012-12-02 20:39:44 UTC
LOL56 wrote:
I ran some numbers and i would peg my personal fleet at a strength (equating ships based on role and cost and not name) at approximately that of France or Italy giving me some 35000ish employes. At 200 ISK per person per year, this amounts to a piddly 7 million in wages per year. For the record I own 2 capitals, ~25 significant sub capitals and ~20 insignificant sub-capitals (over/under 50 mil in hull cost).


Likely will need to add about 50% of non-ship crew to your staff too. Think of the people who sit at dock and take care of your business there for you. Everything from longshoreman to accountants.
Nofearion
Tr0pa de elite.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#220 - 2012-12-03 23:54:49 UTC
The way I understand it, back in the first days of eve you had to pay to recharge your capacitor and shields at station unless you just wanted to sit outside station and let them slowly recharge. Then you have the station management charging rent for offices and other little fees, including broker fees and taxes paid on trades, At the volume Us eggers do it that would be enough to keep the station crew paid very well. I tend to agree with the point that a ship’s crews pay is in the rounding of number in transactions, witch in my case based of the amount of trade I do gives me well paid crews for my entire fleet. I do think that this is an issue that could be talked in the future without making major changes to the way things currently operate. I would like to see expansion on this part of the lore at bit. For example my RP background means that I am with an entourage of about 4 to 6 non capsuleers anytime I am out of pod, Numerous others are much the same in their story lines. Where does there pay come from? Well I guess in the case of Amarrian holders most would be slaves, but I am Minmatar, I could be wrong but one of my assumptions from reading something somewhere was the 1interstellar credit was worth a lot more than any planetary currency or empire currency for that matter.