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EVE Online Development Strategy (CSM Public)

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Author
Frying Doom
#161 - 2012-11-25 12:05:39 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Tian Jade wrote:
First of all, the CSM does not represent me in any form. As an EVE player not represented by anyone in the CSM I distance myself from this document.

Aside from a bit of blabla the iteration of features comes down to: More ressources to Null

The fact alone that so much of the ressources have been thrown at them in the past few years created a lot of the imbalances in the economy and the EVE gameplay.


Such as?

Since Dominion (Winter 2009), which was actually a step backwards for 0.0 in many respects, what "resources" have been "thrown" at 0.0? Every expansion since then has either been completely non-specific with respect to zone, (Incarna, Tyrannis, Crucible) or Empire-focused (Inferno, Incursion). Before Dominion was Apocrypha, which was W-space. Before that was Quantum Rise which introduced new industrial ships mostly used in hi-sec, before that was Empyrean Age, which was wholly Empire focused, before that was Trinity, which did actually bring some new stuff for 0.0.

Ok expansions that have had resources wasted on Null sec including the waste used on Super balancing, rebalancing, nerfing and just plain turning them into coffins

I wont go before December 2009 (the last truly monstrous waste of time on Null.)


  • Crucible (well just before TiDi)
  • Incarna
  • Incursion
  • Tyranis
  • Dominion


So every patch has had resources devoted to Null except Inferno. Maybe you can tell me how much has just been used on Hi-sec or Wormholes in that same amount of time?



Right yes, the effort spent in removing drone bays from Titans is certainly comparable to an entire expansion dedicated to faction warfare Roll

Could you please point to the Lo-sec patch before the FW one like Null had in Dominion?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#162 - 2012-11-25 12:14:22 UTC  |  Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2
Even more words ... I think i have read enough. Since Apocrypha it is all talk.

The only good thing that happened since then is TiDi
Borascus
#163 - 2012-11-25 12:41:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
It's dissapointing to read:

CSM Document wrote:

Rich Sovereignty (New Feature): This is a massive reimagining of something already
in the game that can effectively be called a new feature and will hit many pillars at once.
Sovereignty should contribute to a group of players feeling like they have a “home on top
of gold” with vast economic value they need to actively unlock, that outsiders want to
take, and that they will fight to protect it because it means more than just money
. The
mechanics of establishing, maintaining, developing, and conquering sovereignty should
contribute to this experience and support a variety of players and groups in its
ecosystem. The CSM supports the Farms and Fields concept as a starting point for this
discussion.
● Diversifying 0.0 (Iteration): Currently every system in null security space is basically
the same as the next one. The belt count and PVE value may differ slightly but the PVE
activity remains the same and upgrades are applied equally in all places. Consideration
should be given to adding more “flavor” to 0.0 space, either by making certain types of
PVE more favorable in one place (or certain upgrades more effective),
world shaping by
adding more landmarks and environmental effects, or by empowering players to
“terraform” their own systems above and beyond what current mechanics allow
. This
would contribute to players’ sense of ownership, identity, and connection as well as acts as a way to interest new players in exploring EVE’s vast reaches and eventually making
their own mark on it.


When the following applies:

Sovereignty mechanics include: Industry Upgrades - allowing belts of high-end minerals to form and remain up at all times.

Industry Upgrades are as follows:

Index
Level Mined volume to obtain (m3) Volume/day to maintain (m3) Man-hours/day to maintain
1............1,500,000......................................750,000.........................................4.55
2............3,000,000......................................1,500,000......................................9.1
3............6,000,000......................................3,000,000......................................18.2
4............12,000,000....................................6,000,000......................................36.4
5............24,000,000....................................12,000,000....................................72.8**


at level 5 Industry the required 72.8 man hours of mining to maintain is such that it would take 72 people 1hr of mining, 37 people 2hrs of mining, or 18 people mining 4 hours.


to quote Bloodtear industries guide:

Now the relative profit rates mining each ore type assuming perfect refine:
Ore ISK/hr
Arkonor 61,182,258
Bistot 47,917,634
Crokite 36,227,258
Mercoxit 30,134,016
Gneiss 19,596,239
Dark Ochre 19,292,428
Spodumain 17,393,404
Scordite 15,449,794
Plagioclase 14,631,242
Kernite 13,905,731
Veldspar 13,609,610
Hedbergite 13,389,607
Pyroxeres 11,854,366
Hemorphite 11,435,033
Jaspet 9,804,862
Omber 9,245,769

If the above was correct at the time of publication its still safe to assume that mining in hi-sec would generate an income lower than 15.5mil per hour, no Rorqual / Orca support lowers this further.

Hi-sec mining is in no way as profitable.

To upgrade the industry level of a system is outlined above but let's not forget what happens when you upgrade the Military level:

Bounties around 36mil per hour solo grinding Sanctums, increased likelihood of DED Complexes - potential for 800mil modules, increased likelihood of Wormhole access from the upgraded system (to WH's that have null-sec entrances).

Hi-sec ratting varies, but is less profitable generally due to the number of floating Combat sites being a limited number.

Which illustrates two ways that null-sec systems can be tailored to accomodate a sense of ownership, if there was a module to upgrade a system to increase the likelihood of PVP most would be happier?

Now it's no shock to look back over the "Vote xx for CSM" threads and see the topic of the day back then being addressed. At the start of 2012 (February) the topic revolved loosely around gun-mining in Drone Regions. Most vocal commentators were unhappy with the high income generated by gunmining and it was put forward for the nerf stick - lowering the income of the Drone Regions drastically.

Faction Warfare was also tabled by the CSM as an area needing re-interation.

Incursions were a PvE feature that caused uproar due to the ISK gains per hour - 100-200mil ISK per hour per person but needing 7-10 players to achieve. Really, the incursions were a great way to increase the reward for group activity.

Whilst watching the Incursion Influence chart on the Mission log window it would show hi-sec incursions being farmed at "Incursion is at an end" and null-sec incursions would remain at "Sansha influence is 100% in this area" these two scales would remain for around 3-4 days.




My point is, Iterations have been made to improve the fun-per-hour, and are now being referred to as isk-faucets. Whereas the tabled amendment to this process is: Make null-sec more profitable.

Which will lead to mudflation.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#164 - 2012-11-25 13:35:42 UTC
Borascus wrote:
Hi-sec mining is in no way as profitable.


Everyone except the CSM seems to know this.

The problem is not really income, it's the amount of materials needed in 0.0 that is the problem. Miners don't want to live i 0.0, and 0.0 needs massive amounts of materials, that is the real problem. The best solutions the CSM seem to be able to come up with are nerfing hi-sec, and forcing players into 0.0. It's never going to work, unless they just remove all belts in hi-sec.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#165 - 2012-11-25 14:12:57 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Tian Jade wrote:
First of all, the CSM does not represent me in any form. As an EVE player not represented by anyone in the CSM I distance myself from this document.

Aside from a bit of blabla the iteration of features comes down to: More ressources to Null

The fact alone that so much of the ressources have been thrown at them in the past few years created a lot of the imbalances in the economy and the EVE gameplay.


Such as?

Since Dominion (Winter 2009), which was actually a step backwards for 0.0 in many respects, what "resources" have been "thrown" at 0.0? Every expansion since then has either been completely non-specific with respect to zone, (Incarna, Tyrannis, Crucible) or Empire-focused (Inferno, Incursion). Before Dominion was Apocrypha, which was W-space. Before that was Quantum Rise which introduced new industrial ships mostly used in hi-sec, before that was Empyrean Age, which was wholly Empire focused, before that was Trinity, which did actually bring some new stuff for 0.0.

Ok expansions that have had resources wasted on Null sec including the waste used on Super balancing, rebalancing, nerfing and just plain turning them into coffins

I wont go before December 2009 (the last truly monstrous waste of time on Null.)


  • Crucible (well just before TiDi)
  • Incarna
  • Incursion
  • Tyranis
  • Dominion


So every patch has had resources devoted to Null except Inferno. Maybe you can tell me how much has just been used on Hi-sec or Wormholes in that same amount of time?


Can you specify which resources were "wasted", exactly? Or do you mean wasted in the sense that they were spent on nullsec at all?

If you're going to try and claim that empire didn't get much more development than null since Dominion, we can end this right now, since it's evidently not the case.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Borascus
#166 - 2012-11-25 14:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
dexington wrote:
Borascus wrote:
Hi-sec mining is in no way as profitable.


Everyone except the CSM seems to know this.

The problem is not really income, it's the amount of materials needed in 0.0 that is the problem. Miners don't want to live i 0.0, and 0.0 needs massive amounts of materials, that is the real problem. The best solutions the CSM seem to be able to come up with are nerfing hi-sec, and forcing players into 0.0. It's never going to work, unless they just remove all belts in hi-sec.




It's brilliant that you say that, it leads through into a more revealing situation:

The cost to manufacture a battleship in Null-sec is the same as the cost to manufacture in hi-sec. This would relate to Capitals, Supercapitals and Titans.

Interestingly, the manufacture of Caps/Supers/Titans is manufacturing end-game as described by reasoned individuals and vocal skitposters alike.

Titan platinum insurance is 680mil payout. However, to make a single Avatar using base BPOs with no research:

Trit: 4,057,487,610 units || 22,316,181,855 ISK
Pye: 983,361,830 units || 11,308,661,045 ISK
Mex: 349,568,230 units || 19,925,389,110 ISK
Iso: 59,265,910 units || 6,756,313,740 ISK
Nocx: 16,589,210 units || 10,849,343,340 ISK
Zyd: 2,972,750 units || 2,006,606,250 ISK
Mega: 1,474,000 units || 2,865,456,000 ISK

Or: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

As you can see Null-sec needs Hi-sec mining volumes more than anyone is letting on, other than Dark Ochre, hi-sec mins cost more than 3 times the high-end null-sec ores.

The buffing of Null-sec mining incorporating "higher yield null-sec only asteroids" would only serve to increase Titan production rates whilst also allowing an advantage to form over the Drone Regions.

The Drone Regions were able to gunmine capital-building volumes of all minerals, now that they have been nerfed I find it quite telling that the Null-sec vocalists now wish to add higher mineral acquisition volumes to their null-sec areas.

EDIT: Null-sec can't produce enough Tritanium and Pyerite to satisfy their goals for conquest.
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
#167 - 2012-11-25 14:32:34 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
Even more words ... I think i have read enough. Since Apocrypha it is all talk.

The only good thing that happened since then is TiDi


Which you can thank CSM 6 for. You're welcome. Cool

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#168 - 2012-11-25 14:40:00 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Tian Jade wrote:
First of all, the CSM does not represent me in any form. As an EVE player not represented by anyone in the CSM I distance myself from this document.

Aside from a bit of blabla the iteration of features comes down to: More ressources to Null

The fact alone that so much of the ressources have been thrown at them in the past few years created a lot of the imbalances in the economy and the EVE gameplay.


Such as?

Since Dominion (Winter 2009), which was actually a step backwards for 0.0 in many respects, what "resources" have been "thrown" at 0.0? Every expansion since then has either been completely non-specific with respect to zone, (Incarna, Tyrannis, Crucible) or Empire-focused (Inferno, Incursion). Before Dominion was Apocrypha, which was W-space. Before that was Quantum Rise which introduced new industrial ships mostly used in hi-sec, before that was Empyrean Age, which was wholly Empire focused, before that was Trinity, which did actually bring some new stuff for 0.0.

Ok expansions that have had resources wasted on Null sec including the waste used on Super balancing, rebalancing, nerfing and just plain turning them into coffins

I wont go before December 2009 (the last truly monstrous waste of time on Null.)


  • Crucible (well just before TiDi)
  • Incarna
  • Incursion
  • Tyranis
  • Dominion


So every patch has had resources devoted to Null except Inferno. Maybe you can tell me how much has just been used on Hi-sec or Wormholes in that same amount of time?



Right yes, the effort spent in removing drone bays from Titans is certainly comparable to an entire expansion dedicated to faction warfare Roll

Could you please point to the Lo-sec patch before the FW one like Null had in Dominion?


Empyrean Age

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Frying Doom
#169 - 2012-11-25 14:56:44 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

Such as?

Since Dominion (Winter 2009), which was actually a step backwards for 0.0 in many respects, what "resources" have been "thrown" at 0.0? Every expansion since then has either been completely non-specific with respect to zone, (Incarna, Tyrannis, Crucible) or Empire-focused (Inferno, Incursion). Before Dominion was Apocrypha, which was W-space. Before that was Quantum Rise which introduced new industrial ships mostly used in hi-sec, before that was Empyrean Age, which was wholly Empire focused, before that was Trinity, which did actually bring some new stuff for 0.0.

Ok expansions that have had resources wasted on Null sec including the waste used on Super balancing, rebalancing, nerfing and just plain turning them into coffins

I wont go before December 2009 (the last truly monstrous waste of time on Null.)


  • Crucible (well just before TiDi)
  • Incarna
  • Incursion
  • Tyranis
  • Dominion


So every patch has had resources devoted to Null except Inferno. Maybe you can tell me how much has just been used on Hi-sec or Wormholes in that same amount of time?



Right yes, the effort spent in removing drone bays from Titans is certainly comparable to an entire expansion dedicated to faction warfare Roll

Could you please point to the Lo-sec patch before the FW one like Null had in Dominion?


Empyrean Age

Thanks so the 15% population of lo-sec has had inferno and Empyrean Age.

While Null has had work done minor or major in

  • Cold War
  • Red Moon Rising
  • Revelations II
  • Dominion
  • Tyranis
  • Incursion
  • Incarna
  • Crucible (well just before TiDi)


And no the work done on removing drone bays was not equal to the work done on lo-sec in inferno but all up Null has had a lot more hours spent on its 20% than lo-secs 15% of the population.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Frying Doom
#170 - 2012-11-25 15:07:51 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

Can you specify which resources were "wasted", exactly? Or do you mean wasted in the sense that they were spent on nullsec at all?

If you're going to try and claim that empire didn't get much more development than null since Dominion, we can end this right now, since it's evidently not the case.

What resources were wasted? Well that is kind of easy as a games company they have only 1 major resource besides server time and that is staff time.

Countless hours of time has been used on Null sec features that are broken and need replacing again.

That is what that document is all about, the fact that after so many hours the system remains broken and requires yet more developers time to once again try to fix.

No it would not have been wasted just because it was Null, if it was done right and thoughtfully as well as properly tested the first time it would not need almost every patch this game has ever done to alter and fix it.

As to Hi sec empire space what has it had done in the last 3 years

  • Some fixes to the response time and power of the police
  • war decs


That was all I could find, perhaps I am missing something?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Seleene
Body Count Inc.
#171 - 2012-11-25 15:20:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Seleene
Frying Doom wrote:
That was all I could find, perhaps I am missing something?


Yes, a basic understanding of how CCP plans their expansions and allocates their resources. But, hey, join the club as that's been a mystery to even people that work there for years. v0v Trying to apply any sort of logic to why CCP does what they do on a year to year basis is pointless. They always have and will continue to confound logical thinking.

You are also completely ignoring the absolute **** up that Dominion was and many of the other WTF development strategies CCP has attempted in the past 3-5 years. This argument of yours about % of resources to this or that geographic area of space are completely pointless. CCP doesn't give a damn about null or high or anything because of where it is - they follow the subscriber numbers and marketing potential, along with about half a dozen other factors. You keep talking like CCP Unifex is all, "Well, let's work on LOW / HIGH / NULL sec this expansion!!" but that is simply not the case. Cripes, I honestly wish it was in some cases because trying to predict the criteria they use for decision making is often utterly pointless.

Lastly, yes, if something is broken as bad as null sec is they need to FIX IT. Dominion was the ONLY attempt since Revelations 2 that actually touched the Sov system and it was a disaster of implementation. It is one of THE core mechanics of the game and it's a miracle people are still willing to endure the absolute travesty that is ~conquering space~. Letting it sit as is will be a grave mistake on CCP's part.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Frying Doom
#172 - 2012-11-25 15:30:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Seleene wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
That was all I could find, perhaps I am missing something?


Yes, a basic understanding of how CCP plans their expansions and allocates their resources. But, hey, join the club as that's been a mystery to even people that work there for years. v0v Trying to apply any sort of logic to why CCP does what they do on a year to year basis is pointless. They always have and will continue to confound logical thinking.

You are also completely ignoring the absolute **** up that Dominion was and many of the other WTF development strategies CCP has attempted in the past 3-5 years. This argument of yours about % of resources to this or that geographic area of space are completely pointless. CCP doesn't give a damn about null or high or anything because of where it - they follow the subscriber numbers and marketing potential, along with about half a dozen other factors. You keep talking like CCP Unifex is all, "Well, let's work on LOW / HIGH / NULL sec this expansion!!" but that is simply not the case. Cripes, I honestly wish it was in some cases because trying to predict the criteria they use for decision making is often utterly pointless.

Lastly, yes, if something is broken as bad as null sec is they need to FIX IT. Dominion was the ONLY attempt since Revelations 2 that actually touched the Sov system and it was a disaster of implementation. It is one of THE core mechanics of the game and it's a miracle people are still willing to endure the absolute travesty that is ~conquering space~. Letting is sit as is will be a grave mistake on CCP's part.

Yes it is quite clear that CCP does not follow any clear logic to their patches, customer service, fixes, marketing, transparency and many other parts.

Their path like all companies is on money and they are more likely to get that by keeping a larger percentage of their customer base happy while appealing to as large an audience of new players as possible. Yes Null needs fixing but their are areas like POS's and Corporate management that are far more urgent and will effect more people.

As to "Lastly, yes, if something is broken as bad as null sec is they need to FIX IT. Dominion was the ONLY attempt since Revelations 2 that actually touched the Sov system and it was a disaster of implementation."
I completely agree which is why I believe they should assign a team to study it and come up with a solution, have their economist model the changes extensively and then implement the road map. Not put the cart before the horse and once again have a stuffed Null sec that everyone hates and that once again more resources have to be thrown at. If it was done right the first time it would not have needed to be done again.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Borascus
#173 - 2012-11-25 15:32:13 UTC
What is actually broken?

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
...
Frying Doom
#174 - 2012-11-25 15:37:25 UTC
Borascus wrote:
What is actually broken?

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
...

With Null? Go there look around gank some people you will realize very fast 1+1=3457.2 or -2389 depending on what side of Null you are on.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Borascus
#175 - 2012-11-25 16:04:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
Frying Doom wrote:
Borascus wrote:
What is actually broken?

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
...

With Null? Go there look around gank some people you will realize very fast 1+1=3457.2 or -2389 depending on what side of Null you are on.



Is this a reference to the calling of reinforcements? I can't see how that is broken.

If goonswarm have 10k players and 968 null-sec systems can house them that would be 10 players per system?

More to the point: Content in null-sec has normalised, please can we have some more?

EDIT: moving from Syndicate to Stain via Delve was a good opportunity to see a blockade, a corporation had bubbled both ends of a pipeline system. Enter system in bubbles, warp to stargate surrounded by bubbles. Passing through there at downtime showed that it is still predictable. Enter system as cluster shuts down and turbo-login to warp to other bubbles before people get online.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#176 - 2012-11-25 17:08:33 UTC
Borascus wrote:
What is actually broken?

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
...


Honestly, if you really don't know, rather than make people type it out all over again, maybe do some reading?

Here's a good start: http://themittani.com/features/destroying-shipyards
Here's some more helpful reading: http://themittani.com/features/creation-and-destruction

I'd also suggest reading some of corestwo's posts as well - he goes into some detail.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Borascus
#177 - 2012-11-25 17:15:20 UTC
Corestwo's last 15 posts revolve around GTC's, PLEX and
Corestwo wrote:
Surely you can see how a post by a developer which implies, even jokingly, that market manipulation is an exploit and against the EULA is a bad thing?


It's a bit vague, what i'm trying to say is, on that trip from Syndicate to Stain I took screenshots of local so the rest of the Alliance could see where the density was. That stretch, around 10:00-12:45 server time was pretty much empty.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#178 - 2012-11-25 17:22:25 UTC
@Seleene

Please make the CSM and CCP aware of these considerations and the suggestion at the end.

Before the drone regions nerf, nullsec had more minerals available (including low ends) in a efficient pre-compressed format.
After the nerf, nullsec are even more low ends starved.

Before the drone regions nerf, there was a sizable ISK faucet less.
After the nerf, the whole drone regions are an ISK faucet and the much often spawned hi sec drone missions (up to 20-30% of many agent's mission baskets) just worsen this faucet.
This leads to the next inflation maker and this will ultimately lead to nerfs affecting areas that have now been nerfed to quite reasonable rewards and don't need to become worse.

Conclusion:

The drone region nerfs were not as well thought as it appeared to be.


Suggestion:

- Revert drones to dropping minerals, possibly tweaking the drops to yield less high ends. ISK faucet gone both in hi sec and low sec.
- Execute an SQL update on all the BPOs to require 15% more minerals. This will counter the reversal of the drone regions dropping minerals.
- Alter the coefficient of the insurance formula to give 15% less payout for the default "zero" insurance.
Evelgrivion
Origin.
#179 - 2012-11-25 23:00:39 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
@Seleene

Please make the CSM and CCP aware of these considerations and the suggestion at the end.

Before the drone regions nerf, nullsec had more minerals available (including low ends) in a efficient pre-compressed format.
After the nerf, nullsec are even more low ends starved.

Before the drone regions nerf, there was a sizable ISK faucet less.
After the nerf, the whole drone regions are an ISK faucet and the much often spawned hi sec drone missions (up to 20-30% of many agent's mission baskets) just worsen this faucet.
This leads to the next inflation maker and this will ultimately lead to nerfs affecting areas that have now been nerfed to quite reasonable rewards and don't need to become worse.

Conclusion:

The drone region nerfs were not as well thought as it appeared to be.


Suggestion:

- Revert drones to dropping minerals, possibly tweaking the drops to yield less high ends. ISK faucet gone both in hi sec and low sec.
- Execute an SQL update on all the BPOs to require 15% more minerals. This will counter the reversal of the drone regions dropping minerals.
- Alter the coefficient of the insurance formula to give 15% less payout for the default "zero" insurance.


This does not fix the existing problem of compressed materials being fundamentally bad for making it easy to transport bulk material from point A to point B, which directly enabled supercap proliferation.
Frying Doom
#180 - 2012-11-26 02:53:57 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
@Seleene

Please make the CSM and CCP aware of these considerations and the suggestion at the end.

Before the drone regions nerf, nullsec had more minerals available (including low ends) in a efficient pre-compressed format.
After the nerf, nullsec are even more low ends starved.

Before the drone regions nerf, there was a sizable ISK faucet less.
After the nerf, the whole drone regions are an ISK faucet and the much often spawned hi sec drone missions (up to 20-30% of many agent's mission baskets) just worsen this faucet.
This leads to the next inflation maker and this will ultimately lead to nerfs affecting areas that have now been nerfed to quite reasonable rewards and don't need to become worse.

Conclusion:

The drone region nerfs were not as well thought as it appeared to be.


Suggestion:

- Revert drones to dropping minerals, possibly tweaking the drops to yield less high ends. ISK faucet gone both in hi sec and low sec.
- Execute an SQL update on all the BPOs to require 15% more minerals. This will counter the reversal of the drone regions dropping minerals.
- Alter the coefficient of the insurance formula to give 15% less payout for the default "zero" insurance.

YaY then Hi sec miners could go back to poor status with High sec minerals being worth half what they are now. Sorry about that 0.5 off an isk off half for tritanium.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!