These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

EVE Online Development Strategy (CSM Public)

First post First post First post
Author
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#221 - 2012-11-28 06:11:46 UTC
mkint wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I'd question the idea that the drone alloy removal did much to add more isk coming into missions. Not all mission runners would run them prior due to the requirement of having to loot and salvage in order to receive the full reward. I imagine many individuals would likely have skipped them and moved on to bounty giving missions to keep income up while not having to break from doing missions for more LP and bounty payouts which require no extra time or effort. For them the change in isk injection would likely be minimal if any at all.


The missioneers totally bent on min maxing ISK per hour would blitz the missions anyway, before and after the drone regions nerf.
The drone missions happen so often that unless you are in some lucky Caldari multi-L4-nearby agent system you end up having to wait the 4 hours out or having to do them. The 4 hours timers has an impact, as agents tend to give faction missions as well and you use all the timers to skip those already. And then 3 drone missions in a row happen...

Also, many are like me, who like to "gun mine" for prodicing T1 and T2 modules, I actually welcomed those missions because I could "flash" through them (they tend to be very easy) and then bring home some amount of high ends.

Gun mining = all kinds of stupid as far as a balanced game goes. No. It should never be brought back. You want minerals, you mine them as is intended.

As far as inflation, I have read nothing from CCP saying inflation is a serious problem right now. It's always something to be aware of, but unless you work in the CCP statistics department, you are not qualified to say it's a problem.

Your drone suggestions are a self serving ploy to make yourself richer at the cost of gutting an entire game mechanic, and those strange enough to enjoy it. You are not worth it. Plz stop.



Question: What is available to salvage and recycle after you hit a tank with an RPG?

The correct answer, is pretty much everything, though some of it may not be working, and it doesn't have to be. Bonus if it is though.


We recycle and salvage in the real world; why not in a game. Economically speaking, it is actually beneficial to recycle. Environmentally speaking, it is beneficial to recycle. The preservation of resources requires us to recycle. You can hardly buy anything now without finding a tag that says "Made of #% post-consumer recycled goods somewhere.

Metal recycling is a big thing. Biodiesel as an alternative to diesel, is actually the result of someone converting Fast Food restaurant waste oil products from fry cooking into fuel.

Without a continued move to greener energy sources, recycling and reusing products as an alternative to continued use of natural resources, we won't have a sustainable future for industrial or economic growth.

tl;dr: Mining depletes natural resources; Gun mining saves them. Support your economic future and preserve the resources and sustainability of your environment. Be eco friendly today. Buy a Gun. ~ Message brought to you by Mars Theran, representing Ec☼Green Initiatives© for New Eden.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Frying Doom
#222 - 2012-11-28 06:20:41 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:

tl;dr: Mining depletes natural resources; Gun mining saves them. Support your economic future and preserve the resources and sustainability of your environment. Be eco friendly today. Buy a Gun. ~ Message brought to you by Mars Theran, representing Ec☼Green Initiatives© for New Eden.


We are lucky enough in New eden to have regenerating asteroids due to the nature of the crystals in our space.

However trying to Gun mine rouge drones to recycle them is just a bunch of hippy crap.

Recycling uses more energy than normal refining of ore.

ECO-Nuts destroyed our old Galaxy, that is why we came. The pursuit of exploration and to flee hippies.

Be kind to Our Galaxy - Shoot a hippie today.

Brought to you by the "People against second hand goods"

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Evelgrivion
Origin.
#223 - 2012-11-28 06:22:49 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Question: What is available to salvage and recycle after you hit a tank with an RPG?

The correct answer, is pretty much everything, though some of it may not be working, and it doesn't have to be. Bonus if it is though.


We recycle and salvage in the real world; why not in a game. Economically speaking, it is actually beneficial to recycle. Environmentally speaking, it is beneficial to recycle. The preservation of resources requires us to recycle. You can hardly buy anything now without finding a tag that says "Made of #% post-consumer recycled goods somewhere.

Metal recycling is a big thing. Biodiesel as an alternative to diesel, is actually the result of someone converting Fast Food restaurant waste oil products from fry cooking into fuel.

Without a continued move to greener energy sources, recycling and reusing products as an alternative to continued use of natural resources, we won't have a sustainable future for industrial or economic growth.

tl;dr: Mining depletes natural resources; Gun mining saves them. Support your economic future and preserve the resources and sustainability of your environment. Be eco friendly today. Buy a Gun. ~ Message brought to you by Mars Theran, representing Ec☼Green Initiatives© for New Eden.


In real life, recycling is great. In video games, it doesn't necessarily result in good player behaviors; real life is almost irrelevant when what you are cultivating is a digital experience.
Kira Vanachura
Green Visstick High
#224 - 2012-11-28 06:53:46 UTC
There are a few easy changes that can significantly boost nullsec (changing refining ouput, number of production slots/cost for upgrades) that can be made by simply changing a few numbers. This is low-hanging fruit. I get the feeling the only reason CCP isn't doing any of this (but rather spend lots of time making cool features nobody asked for) is that CCP is planning some major 0.0 themed expansion and is making us wait for it. I think they are just afraid that, if they pick the low-hanging fruit now, the nullsec-themed expansion might be another major dissapointment.
Frying Doom
#225 - 2012-11-28 08:01:51 UTC
Kira Vanachura wrote:
There are a few easy changes that can significantly boost nullsec (changing refining ouput, number of production slots/cost for upgrades) that can be made by simply changing a few numbers. This is low-hanging fruit.

Hopefully they will address all these issues when they do the POS revamp next year, by increasing the capabilities of player constructed stations both POS and Outposts.

I must admit I am hoping they do the POS and corp management in the Summer expansion as well as the promised Manufacturing revamp.

Plus something shiny like a BC re-balance so there are some shiny things as well.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#226 - 2012-11-28 11:18:20 UTC
mkint wrote:

Gun mining = all kinds of stupid as far as a balanced game goes. No. It should never be brought back. You want minerals, you mine them as is intended.


Dude I have multiple Orca fleets both for ice and minerals, don't even try schooling me about "how it's done".

Gun mining was a minigame like many, you seem another of those self proclaimed gurus who decide what's "kosher" for the others to play and what's not.


mkint wrote:

As far as inflation, I have read nothing from CCP saying inflation is a serious problem right now. It's always something to be aware of, but unless you work in the CCP statistics department, you are not qualified to say it's a problem.


Did I say it's a problem? My posts are just a reaction to the endless "NERF MISSIONS" threads coming in droves every day since years. I want to show that *if* there's monetary inflation, it can be fixed without further nerfs to activities that have been nerfed for up to 5 times in a row.


mkint wrote:

Your drone suggestions are a self serving ploy to make yourself richer at the cost of gutting an entire game mechanic, and those strange enough to enjoy it. You are not worth it. Plz stop.


1) I am already richer.
2) As easily seen on the Market Discussion forum I have just completed taking profit and distributing potent dividends to my Investors.

I am not trying getting any richer ATM expecially since I make money *both* if drones spit ISK *and* if they'd spit minerals.

I just happen to prefer they spit minerals because it helps vs possible inflation, because it brings in diversity (all the other rats drop ISK already) and I'd get a trickle of high ends close to my base instead of having to deal with Jita & logistics.
Frying Doom
#227 - 2012-11-28 12:00:51 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
mkint wrote:

Gun mining = all kinds of stupid as far as a balanced game goes. No. It should never be brought back. You want minerals, you mine them as is intended.


Dude I have multiple Orca fleets both for ice and minerals, don't even try schooling me about "how it's done".

Gun mining was a minigame like many, you seem another of those self proclaimed gurus who decide what's "kosher" for the others to play and what's not.

While Gun mining might be better than moon mining in the respect that the player is involved, it really did alter the price of minerals by about 25-30%. Also it really minimalised the play style you claim to do often with your multiple orca fleets.

It meant you were mining reasonable quantities to enable you to build ships in fully armed vessels while miners sit in unarmed vessels. Did you get as many minerals as them? probably not but the risk was way down and you got a nice bonus for finishing the mission.

Gun mining just degrades the profession of miners. If you want Ore from missions I believe there are mining missions and a lot of missions have roids in them.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#228 - 2012-11-28 13:29:39 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

While Gun mining might be better than moon mining in the respect that the player is involved, it really did alter the price of minerals by about 25-30%. Also it really minimalised the play style you claim to do often with your multiple orca fleets.

It meant you were mining reasonable quantities to enable you to build ships in fully armed vessels while miners sit in unarmed vessels. Did you get as many minerals as them? probably not but the risk was way down and you got a nice bonus for finishing the mission.

Gun mining just degrades the profession of miners. If you want Ore from missions I believe there are mining missions and a lot of missions have roids in them.


That's why I proposed to raise the BPOs minerals requirement across the board.


Frying Doom wrote:

Gun mining just degrades the profession of miners. If you want Ore from missions I believe there are mining missions and a lot of missions have roids in them.


Actually missions is where I "recycled" my old Hulks. They'd be more or less useless for belt mining but they are effective in mission pockets: few scan them down and the uniformity (and size) of the mission roids makes crystals much easier to manage.
Sadly CCP decided to remove lots of the variety that used to be in there, these days you almost always get Veld and Scordite, more rarely Pyroxeres and that's it.
Scottish Play
Major Kong Freight
#229 - 2012-11-29 05:48:26 UTC
Seleene wrote:
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
Even more words ... I think i have read enough. Since Apocrypha it is all talk.

The only good thing that happened since then is TiDi
Which you can thank CSM 6 for. You're welcome. Cool
Please.

TiDi was in development long before CSM6. It simply was released during CSM6's term. CSM6 can claim no credit for it.

TiDi is an idea that CCP came to on its own to battle massive lag. The CSM input amounted to "that sounds cool, can't wait to see it in action."
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#230 - 2012-11-29 06:22:27 UTC
Evelgrivion wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Question: What is available to salvage and recycle after you hit a tank with an RPG?

The correct answer, is pretty much everything, though some of it may not be working, and it doesn't have to be. Bonus if it is though.


We recycle and salvage in the real world; why not in a game. Economically speaking, it is actually beneficial to recycle. Environmentally speaking, it is beneficial to recycle. The preservation of resources requires us to recycle. You can hardly buy anything now without finding a tag that says "Made of #% post-consumer recycled goods somewhere.

Metal recycling is a big thing. Biodiesel as an alternative to diesel, is actually the result of someone converting Fast Food restaurant waste oil products from fry cooking into fuel.

Without a continued move to greener energy sources, recycling and reusing products as an alternative to continued use of natural resources, we won't have a sustainable future for industrial or economic growth.

tl;dr: Mining depletes natural resources; Gun mining saves them. Support your economic future and preserve the resources and sustainability of your environment. Be eco friendly today. Buy a Gun. ~ Message brought to you by Mars Theran, representing Ec☼Green Initiatives© for New Eden.


In real life, recycling is great. In video games, it doesn't necessarily result in good player behaviors; real life is almost irrelevant when what you are cultivating is a digital experience.


See, I was actually thinking of ships rather than drones. Player ships to be specific, but you could salvage and recycle mission wrecks and Rogue drones as well.

You could build on this strategy by decreasing the bounties and mission rewards, and with further development of mining and adjustments to ore and mineral availability in High, Low, and Null. Basically taking some suggested changes to mining and decreasing the ISK faucets in game, while adding salvaging and recycling of all destroyed objects in space.

Down and dirty like.

I think if it was done right and implemented properly it would be an improvement over current resource availability. Of course, missions would require a little more work to profit from, and a new salvage barge, (upgraded Orca might be an idea), would have to be introduced.

Wrecks would have to stick around for more than 2 hours I think, and of course the need for a new salvaging module which harvested materials from wrecks would be needed. Sort of like mining lasers and strip miners. Scrap metal is a perfect example of what you could harvest, and something already in game, but dropped rather than harvested.

Of course, this also means a higher requirement for team work, and you could increase the potential for profits one materials have been refined. Salvaging as it currently functions would have to be done first, then the wrecks could be properly salvaged after. Imagine a Titan wreck, and what it would yield.

zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub