Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Being moved here is like a stealth lock. Well done :-)

I wouldn't quite call it a lock.

Frankly, I think we need to use sensors and skills to be aware of our extended environment.

There is no reason why D-Scan could not be evolved into something more practical, with repeating pings at reasonable intervals if desired.

Active and passive scanning, combined with scan probes... Why exactly do we want to avoid this?

It's like saying the bicycle needs the little training wheels, or it will always fall over.
That's not true at all, in fact at a certain point, the training wheels are what holds you back.

And the very idea that PvP will collapse, or bad things will happen if local is neutered... all assumptions with no viable data to support them.

Lord Zim, you are quite the clever fellow.

I see no indication of cloaked gangs dominating anything after such a change.

If anything, everyone will be effectively hidden. At least until someone with sensors goes to the trouble of finding them.

And as many pointed out, it would make sense for cloaked vessels to be possible to be hunted too, with no local.

They won't be truly cloaked anymore, just needing more effort to find.

With so many different flavors of ideas on that, I would say balance suggests matching effort and sacrifice to the cloaked vessel seems fitting.

They should need a skill to hunt cloaks, just like the cloaking pilots need a skill.
They should also need a booster module, that allows their ship to see cloaked vessels.

Whether this module does it by decrypting sensor data, or floods an area of space with energy that disrupts the cloak, I think the devs can pick something appropriate.

The point is, the hunter will be just as specialized as the prey. It might even work best on special sensor enhanced ships like the covops frigate. Mount the hunting module instead of the cloak, add the pilot with the right skill, and you have a cloak tackler.

That's a separate issue entirely.

If it is considered unbalancing to remove the absolute stealth of cloaks in a wormhole, they can simply say the module doesn't function there.

They already don't permit cyno fields in high sec, just another limit to an item in the game.

Removing Local Chat does nothing.

-> People with dual-accounts and dual monitors monitoring the incoming star gates for constellations and giving intel.

You have no Wormholes, you have stargates in 0.0 ;)



-> Killing ratting ships and mining ships is no PvP. It's ISK removing.

Killing ratting ships is diametral to PvP, since ratting ships finance PvP Ships.



Things to attack, things do defend!

Because of hot drops they don't need to be. That's also ignoring the fact that a small clutch of bombers and recons can rip apart any subcap mission boat.

Cause no one ever does that now.

That's cool and super realistic and all, but I don't think forcing some sizable chunk of an organization to sit around with their thumbs up their butt for hours is good gameplay.

Not really, as there's no reason to go through all this effort when it's been said time and again that similar rewards can be gotten in high for nominal risk.

Nice try. It's really very straightforward: If people know they can enter a system without everyone in the system hiding like scared rabbits, then they WILL DO SO more often, and there will be more pvp encounters, because people will still be out doing stuff, and when the two groups meet: pew pew. Not too complicated, dude.

You act as if attackers are somehow unaware of local chat mechanics, and that these are somehow unrelated. They are obviously related. If people know they will be instantly spotted, that will and does obviously affect their behavior and their decision to enter a system or not.



Fixed that for you.

When enemies enter your system, you should expect a FIGHT, to DEFEND yourself. You shouldn't run and hide. Or at least, the game shouldn't reward you for running and hiding. If you aren't man enough or capable enough to consistently scare off or fight off invaders, or to do so much as lift a finger to even know about an attack, then you don't deserve your own private nullsec system. Simple as that.




Directional scanners only work out to 14 AU. If your system has 3 entrances and is 50 AU in diameter, for instance, you would need half a dozen corp members online at all times doing NOTHING useful other than sitting aroud hitting d-scan all the time watching all the gates and the spaces in between where cynos might be fired up.

Not many people can afford doing that, and most would not actually do it all the time. Leaving crucial gaps in security that would allow actual meaningful pvp and that would actually make nullsec, you know... dangerous and risky, like it is supposed to be.



(Edit: holy ****, this thread is 74 pages long? It looked like it stopped at 5 for some reason. Sorry if this doesn't add anything new or useful anymore.)

Sorry for the double post apparently you can only have 5 quotes in a post. Weird limitation.

Yeah what chicken ***** people are for not whelping their mission boats on PvP ships.

In fact, since this is a game blue-balling is much for effective for driving off gangs off, which are hardly invaders, than fighting them. They want a fight so if you give it to them they'll just be back, and since small gangs aren't a real threat in the grand scheme, (if they should be or not is an argument of another time) obviously denying them till the get bored is the best tactical decision.

You really don't see the problem with this?

If by meaningful PvP you undodgable ganks then, yes very meaningful.

Don't worry no one has said anything new or useful in the last few dozen of these threads.

Mission agents are available in high sec, last time I checked. If you can't figure out how to defend yourself OR how to equip your ship to get away fast enough OR how to get your corp to put in actual effort and work to gather quality intel to give your fair warning, well then maybe null sec missions aren't for you.

You don't have a God-given right to run risk free missions in null sec. The reason they pay better than high sec missions is supposed to be BECAUSE you risk PVPers dropping by or pulling other shenanigans and endangering your ship. There are ways to protect yourself even without local chat intel. If you can't figure out those ways or handle the pressure, then go run your missions in the empire, which was made for people who share your taste for low risk. There is no shame in that, but there SHOULD be a lower reward for that.

Right now, though, you're getting higher mission rewards for no extra risk, which is unbalanced and broken.





Yes, it obviously is, given the current mechanics. Which is equally obviously a PROBLEM. The game should not allow you to instantly hide in a hole and stick your tongue out at all PVPers when you are in lawless, nullsec space.

I never suggested that nullsec dwellers are dumb. They are clearly doing what the game mechanics reward them for doing right now: hiding like scared rabbits. Which is why the game mechanics should be changed to make it so that they are no longer rewarded for running away in an area of space that is designed specifically for lawless pvp pew pew action.


Nope. Owning your own star system should be really effing hard to do, and very few people should be able to do it. Only the best and the brightest or the strongest and most determined should gain the massive reward of feeling safe and secure in 0.0 space with its many high end rewards. Having security holes and new, clever people coming in and ripping the defenders apart should be the norm, not the exception.

And you wouldn't HAVE to have people constantly scanning to be safe, by the way. That's simply what you would have to do if you relied on the D-scanner. Smarter and better organized people could easily set up social systems that would not require any D-scanning. I was simply responding to that earlier poster, not suggesting that this would be the ONLY way. It would in fact be a pretty stupid, crude way of getting intel.



Again, only "undodgeable" if you are so uncreative that local chat is the ONLY way you can imagine to find out if an invader has entered your system or not.

Here, I'll give you a free example:
Pretend that instead of local chat, you simply get a number of people in the system. A well organized corp or alliance could have a rigid system set up where they require their members to announce whenever they leave or enter a friendly zone or log on/off, and where they are when they move around. Predetermined text tags, etc. could make this very easy and second-nature to follow, and if well organized enough, you could know exactly when a number going from 16 to 17 means a threat or not a threat, without ever even opening your d-scan, with only a few seconds of effort whenever a friendly group jumps somewhere.