These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Fifty-Nine Down

First post
Author
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#61 - 2012-11-14 19:32:45 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Easily takes the "longest dev blog of Retribution" crown from Masterplan. Cool

I'm still reading this one - haven't reached the end yet...

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#62 - 2012-11-14 19:33:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:
If the Micro Jump Drive (MJD?) works in bubbles, how will gate camps ever catch anyone? With no need to align, and nothing able to point with a Scram at 100km from gate (or even 85km from a gate), it's just jump gate, MJD, align, warp away. You just made an invulnerable blockade runner.


Well, other than the 10 second (or whatever) spool up time. And the tiny problem of actually fitting it to the ship, that has to be a battleship.

Get a scram in place, and they're screwed. Or an infinipoint, iirc

And have you seen T3s with interdiction nullifiers? Totally immune to bubbles Blink

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#63 - 2012-11-14 19:35:17 UTC
Sheynan wrote:
[Maller, armor heavy pulse]
Damage Control II
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

Medium Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Medium Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Hobgoblin II x3

7 minutes without MWD, still 10k more tank than other cruisers, you could also switch to focused mediums with 1600mm plate giving you 15k (!) extra ehp and cap stability for slightly decreased damage.

Stop whining about the Maller Roll


Congrats, you have made a Maller fit that has basically the tank of a Thorax (attack cruiser, not combat) with about 65% of the dps, 200 m/s slower AND STILL HAS WAY WORSE CAP (Still lasts only about 70 seconds under one neut from 100%)

Yes you made it 'usable' capwise, its still **** compared to most of the other cruisers though.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
Just let it happen
#64 - 2012-11-14 19:38:10 UTC
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:
If the Micro Jump Drive (MJD?) works in bubbles, how will gate camps ever catch anyone? With no need to align, and nothing able to point with a Scram at 100km from gate (or even 85km from a gate), it's just jump gate, MJD, align, warp away. You just made an invulnerable blockade runner.

The spool up time is plenty long enough to get a scram on it before the MJD activates. It will require adjustment for a bubble camp to be effective. Its not a disaster.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

OlRotGut
#65 - 2012-11-14 19:38:47 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
OlRotGut wrote:
I am still trying to figure out how you 'buffed' torpedoes. Besides eluding to the fact that GMP now affects all missiles, and a single tweak to Rage damage - (but nerfed explosion radius).

Am I not seeing all of the correct info in the Features forum missile thread?


If you have GMP to level 4 that's a 20% buff to Torp explosion radius. And on top of that the explosion radius implants and rigs also affect it now. That's a very significant buff and the T2 ammo changes are just icing on the cake (and a great way to kill supercaps).



Cool, that's what I was figuring. (GMP skill, etc) was just making sure I didn't miss anything.

Brofist to you foz.
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
#66 - 2012-11-14 19:44:27 UTC
If the officer Drone Control Units are remaining the way they are on the test server, I can't say I am very excited by them. The only benefit they have over the meta 0 mod is lower CPU, which generally isn't an issue on a carrier that has Drone Control Units fit.

Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#67 - 2012-11-14 19:49:50 UTC
CCP Fozzie

Ore don't need a mining frigate.

They need a cyno ship and scanning ship to support mining Rorqals in their hunt for grav anomalies and for POS support. An ore frigate for THOSE roles would be wildly popular, your mining frigate won't be.

MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#68 - 2012-11-14 19:58:57 UTC
CCP Manifest wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Easily takes the "longest dev blog of Retribution" crown from Masterplan. Cool


I am the undisputed king of TLDR at CCP. I'm going to write a devblog just to unseat you!



TL;DR
Merin Skaa
Eternal Sunshine.
Goonswarm Federation
#69 - 2012-11-14 20:03:14 UTC
That Venture better be able to fit a cyno and hold enough liquid ozone to use it.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#70 - 2012-11-14 20:05:12 UTC
Hmm... it looks like ship speed got significantly buffed across the board (except for the existing T1 dessies).

Isn't this the beginning of undoing the speed balancing work done a few years back? Playing the devil's advocate, I'm just wondering if we're going to eventually end up with ridiculous game-mechanic-breaking nano-fits again.

Hint: when you are balancing stats, you are allowed to tweak numbers down, not just up.

BTW - I think the existing T1 dessies are going to have a bit of a problem catching the upgraded frigs. Which is one of the reasons why the old dessies weren't so popular.

And, just FYI, the upgraded attack cruisers are nearly as fast as the dessies (except for the Stab, which will now be faster than all of the existing dessies).
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#71 - 2012-11-14 20:09:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Sizeof Void wrote:
Hmm... it looks like ship speed got significantly buffed across the board (except for the existing T1 dessies).

Isn't this the beginning of undoing the speed balancing work done a few years back? Playing the devil's advocate, I'm just wondering if we're going to eventually end up with ridiculous game-mechanic-breaking nano-fits again.

Hint: when you are balancing stats, you are allowed to tweak numbers down, not just up.

BTW - I think the existing T1 dessies are going to have a bit of a problem catching the upgraded frigs. Which is one of the reasons why the old dessies weren't so popular.

And, just FYI, the upgraded attack cruisers are nearly as fast as the dessies (except for the Stab, which will now be faster than all of the existing dessies).


While I would not object to a larger emphasis being placed on speed for destroyers, I also understand that in most cases their way of dealing with kiting frigates is the ability to inflict large amounts of damage at considerable range.

Cruisers as a whole needed a speed increase, as they are too thin usually to rely on tanking ability alone to survive. They are a far cry from entering the realm of speed that required the nano nerfs... with the possible exception of the Stabber, but it has been restricted in other ways (some would say too harshly, but I have seen what a nano gang using apprporiate tactics can accomplish with little more damage available than what the Stabber will have).

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Denegrah Togasa
Perkone
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-11-14 20:46:48 UTC
eidenjunior wrote:
Quote:
The Micro Jump Drive is a new propulsion module that allows a ship to teleport forward 100km. This module can be used in bubbles or while disrupted but not while warp scrambled, basically following the same rules as the existing Microwarpdrive. The MJD also has a spool up time and cooldown that must be waited between uses.


If we can't bubble them then every ship will use it to get out of trouble. for capital ship can't jump will being buble or disrupted.
Why should you now be able to jump inside a bubble? It should follow the principles of jump or warp not the MWD.



So my understanding is that Bubbles prevent warping not jumping. That if i was on a bubbled gate i could still jump through to the other side which is why it would make sense for the micro jump drive to work inside a bubble as it is not a warp drive.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-11-14 20:51:00 UTC
MOTHER OF GOD! Shocked
Alara IonStorm
#74 - 2012-11-14 20:51:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Ranger 1 wrote:
(some would say too harshly, but I have seen what a nano gang using apprporiate tactics can accomplish with little more damage available than what the Stabber will have).

Too small a niche with too high a skill barrier for a ship that will be the starting point for the youngest players IMO.

Here is the way they should have handled it.

Stabber:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed
7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+2), 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers (-2)
Fittings: 715 PWG (+15), 340 CPU (+40)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(+15) / 1400(+150) / 1300(+11)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+137.5) / 427.5s(+46.25s) / 2.8(+0.01)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 260(+39) / 0.5(+0.02) / 11400000 / 5.3s (+0.2)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km(+7.5) / 320(+15) / 5
Sensor strength: 13 Ladar (+3)
Signature radius: 100 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 420

They should have drones replace the launchers, the speed lowered and an extra low added. That way you can choose whether you want more DPS (Gyro) or Speed (Nano / OD) Most important it opens the option to reasonably kite without Barrage with 2 TE's allowing newer players to use it before T2.

All and all they dropped the ball on the Stabber restricting it so much.
Celebris Nexterra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-11-14 21:09:43 UTC
This is definitely one of the best devblogs released in months, maybe years. Well-referenced, well thought out, very informative, and very concise considering the amount of information it provides.

This devblog, I like it!

Another!
Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc
Silentium Consortium
#76 - 2012-11-14 21:12:43 UTC
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:
If the Micro Jump Drive (MJD?) works in bubbles, how will gate camps ever catch anyone? With no need to align, and nothing able to point with a Scram at 100km from gate (or even 85km from a gate), it's just jump gate, MJD, align, warp away. You just made an invulnerable blockade runner.


Takes 20 seconds to spin up, if you can't get a scram on something that's come through your gate in 20 seconds, then you're not doing it right.
Joseph Dreadloch
Dread Space Inc.
#77 - 2012-11-14 21:23:03 UTC
Exciting stuff, also appreciate the effort that was obviously put into compiling it so neatly.
Ila Gant
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2012-11-14 21:25:18 UTC
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:
If the Micro Jump Drive (MJD?) works in bubbles, how will gate camps ever catch anyone? With no need to align, and nothing able to point with a Scram at 100km from gate (or even 85km from a gate), it's just jump gate, MJD, align, warp away. You just made an invulnerable blockade runner.

I saw MJD and the only thing that popped into my head is "Michael Jackson Dance"

"Yeah, my Apoc moonwalked out of that bubble." Come to think of it, the MJD really should jump directly backwards.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#79 - 2012-11-14 21:27:44 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

While I would not object to a larger emphasis being placed on speed for destroyers, I also understand that in most cases their way of dealing with kiting frigates is the ability to inflict large amounts of damage at considerable range.

This was the original design (which is why the class came with a range bonus), but it didn't work in practice. Frigs were able to easily stay out of range of the bonused guns. Dessies need to be able to catch their targets - via a speed advantage or, more preferably, via a web/scram range bonus.

Ranger 1 wrote:
Cruisers as a whole needed a speed increase.... They are a far cry from entering the realm of speed that required the nano nerfs...

Speed is relative. Decrease long gun/missile ranges, increase hit penalties vs. moving targets, nerf TEs, reducing tracking speeds, etc. and you don't need those speed buffs.

I'm just pointing out that increasing values across the board usually leads to problems. You increase speed - now the guns and missiles don't hit as well. So, you tweak up the missiles and guns to improve their ability to hit fast targets. Then, the guns and missiles are hitting too well, so you buff the ship speed again. Eventually, you end up with Stabs moving at 20+km/s. This is how the original speed problems occurred. Not in a single patch, but a series of upwardly biased balancing tweaks.

Ideally, after each round of balancing changes, your average delta over all changes (measured in percentage change, not absolute values) should be zero, or nearly so. If it is consistently positive, say +5% each round of tweaking, then you are going to run into power/speed creep problems, which will eventually break the game mechanics.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#80 - 2012-11-14 21:59:04 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

Cruisers as a whole needed a speed increase, as they are too thin usually to rely on tanking ability alone to survive. They are a far cry from entering the realm of speed that required the nano nerfs... with the possible exception of the Stabber, but it has been restricted in other ways (some would say too harshly, but I have seen what a nano gang using apprporiate tactics can accomplish with little more damage available than what the Stabber will have).


Unless you plan on buffing frigate speed as well, the stabber is very near the upper limit of how fast a cruiser can go before they seriously start to step on frigates' toes.