These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Fifty-Nine Down

First post
Author
Harbingour
EVE Corporation 690846961
#81 - 2012-11-14 22:13:31 UTC
So when does my Echelon get balanced into something actually usefull mate? Lol
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Robertina Bering
Doomheim
#82 - 2012-11-14 22:23:20 UTC
Micro Jump Drive

F**k yeah! Can't wait. It will change everything.
Berendas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-11-14 23:13:57 UTC
Please tell me that MJD's are still only usable on battleships What?
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#84 - 2012-11-15 00:22:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Krell Kroenen
Johndalar wrote:
Makes my really sad that CCP spent the time and money on a new Stabber model and no one will see it as it is now the worst of all the cruisers.

Ah well the devs giveth and taketh away.


Pretty much, I guess the stabber gets to sit on the bench this time around and look pretty while doing it. At least the bellicose seems decent now. *shrugs* Win some lose some.
Debir Achen
Makiriemi Holdings
#85 - 2012-11-15 00:52:19 UTC
I think the links are a bit borked: they mostly link to {thread}&find=unread, which gets odd results if I've already read the thread at some point. Should either link to the thread (no "find") or to a specific post.

Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature?

Katrina Bekers
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#86 - 2012-11-15 00:54:47 UTC
Happy b-day Fozzie! :)

<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>

Ludiah
GOTTEG Mining and Industrial Union
#87 - 2012-11-15 01:26:02 UTC
I noticed that you didn't cover the un-needed nerf to the Hurricane in this 'balance' post. Might want to mention that you are removing 16.7% of the Hurricane's powergrid because, to quote CCP Fozzy
CCP Fozzy wrote:
We're going to be changing the hurricane at the same time but I wanted that thread to stay dedicated to the specific cruiser balance instead of getting derailed so we're moving that here.

Since we planning to reduce the powergrid needs of all medium artillery by 10% across the board, we are also planning to subtract 225 PG from the Hurricane, leaving it with a base powergrid of 1125. Note from Ludiah: Please note that this is 16.7% of the Hurricane's total PG while they are only reducing the Arty PG usage by 10%

The upshot is that fitting a full rack of 720s with a MWD and LSE and full mids and lows will require a RCUII and either an ACR or PG implant. Also fitting a standard shield autocane with neuts and LSE will require dropping a few guns down to 220mm.
The hurricane will likely receive significantly more changes when we get to battlecruisers in the balance pass, but this is designed as a compensation for the drop in Arty PG and to help alleviate the problem of Arty ships having so much free PG when they use autocannons.Note from Ludiah: Please note the rational here, the Hurricane, a NON-ARTY focused ship is being nerfed by an amount GREATER than the Arty PG reduction because this will 'alleviate the problem of Arty ships having so much free PG when they use autocannons'.


Well great. But the Hurricane isn't an arty only ship. I fly it with AC's (and max out, or close to max out the PG) WAY more often than I fly it with Arty. Also don't forget in that dev blog that CCP Fozzy linked to as to what's coming next? The Hurricane will be losing a slot (I'm guessing medium or low as I doubt that they'll remove a high, or I hope they don't cause this nerf will be bad enough). So basically CCP Fozzy is telling us that of ALL the Minmatar ships that can fly with Medium Arty only the Hurricane is *actually* an arty ship (even though there are NO role or ship bonuses specific to Arty on the Hurricane. Or well, really what he's trying to say (and lying by trying to deceive us) is that CCP thinks that the Hurricane needs a mammoth nerf (or one much greater than the Drake (which is actually in need of one) is getting. But instead of doing it all at once. They are trying to slip in a medium/large nerf now (without mentioning it in this dev blog as one of the things *balanced* [even though they aren't supposed to be releasing BC balance changes till next year]) and than another nerf (loss of slots after making those slots even more valuable by slashing the PG) later on besides any other nerfs that they feel like making.

I'm really insulted that CCP Fozzy et al are shoving this untimely nerf down our throats. CCP Fozzy. . . Here's some suggestions that might make this better. If you really think that the Arty PG reduction is too much for the Hurricane then give it a role penalty to Arty PG usage. If you make it where when equipped, on a Hurricane, the medium arty's use more power (since the Hurricane is getting a larger nerf than the medium arty PG use reduction) than they do now (pre-Retribution) then you'll have solved the issue with fitting a full rack of 720mm Arty's without a PG booster (implant, module, or rig).

Then once you kill that slot (whatever it might be) and balance the REST of the BC's (and will have had time to see what the EVE community has come up with as far as the changes to the Cruisers go) and you'll be able to see if something like this was really necessary. PLEASE take this slower, moderated route instead of this heavy handed slashing of the Hurricane's PG.

(As a side note. If these changes happen the Hurricane will be down to 1125 base PG. Spend some time comparing that to the other races. The Cyclone will have more PG than the Hurricane (with the Cyclone having less turret hardpoints than the Hurricane). Heck ALL of the Amarr (granted they use Lasers which are high PG requirement weapons) have more PG than the Hurricane will. Actually, to be fair. Currently only the Prophecy has less PG than the Hurricane does pre-nerf (which resolves the higher PG requirement of their weapons) as far as Amarr ships are concerned. None of the Caldari BC's will have more PG than the Hurricane post-nerf but all the of Gallente ships, except for the Talos, will have more PG (post nerf) than the Hurricane will. The Myrm (a Drone Damage boat that can, but not advised to, do all of its damage from drones and thus free up a lot of PG for other things) will have more PG than the Hurricane will.)

While the Hurricane is quite versatile it will already be taking a hit in the future with the loss of at least one slot. The PG change should be held off (if not indefinitely) than till *AFTER* the round of BC changes and we see how it does. Anything else is a heavy-handed over-the-top nerf to a decent ship. Please to note that at no time have I (or anyone else that I've seen) been able to fit BOTH a tank (like the Drake) or a DPS fit. While the Hurricane is versatile, it is still limited, and at least previously that versatility was it's greatest strength. You could fit for tank or dps depending upon the situation and expect to be good at that (and moderate at best in the other). With the coming changes, it'll still be a jack-of-all-trades. But instead of being good at one of those trades at a time. It'll just suck at both equally.
AlexHalstead
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2012-11-15 01:26:20 UTC  |  Edited by: AlexHalstead
Quote:
The powerful Ancillary Shield Booster revolutionized small gang combat when it was released with Inferno, and dominated the 10th Alliance Tournament. It is receiving a slight reduction on effectiveness with Retribution, consisting of a smaller capacity to hold fewer cap boosters, increased cap need when running without boosters, and an increase in duration for the X-large variant.
To be frank, it's powerful because you are getting the equivalent of two normal shield boosters for only one normal shield booster fitting.

I would look at making the booster amount be less than two normal boosters of same size I.E. scrap the concept for the ancillary shield booster repair doing 200% of what a normal shield boost of same size and same fitting do.
Yes it should shield repair more than a normal booster of same size, but not as same as two normal booster.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#89 - 2012-11-15 02:35:32 UTC
Ludiah wrote:
I noticed that you didn't cover the un-needed nerf to the Hurricane in this 'balance' post. Might want to mention that you are removing 16.7% of the Hurricane's powergrid

Quote:
Alongside the change to Artillery Cannons we are removing 225 PWG from the Hurricane Battlecruiser

Ludiah wrote:
I fly it with AC's (and max out, or close to max out the PG)
Because you can fit two LSEs and two medium neuts with T2 425's, a MWD and a weapons rig
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#90 - 2012-11-15 02:36:23 UTC
Ludiah wrote:
lots of crap.



The thing he is saying is that the Hurricanes fitting were made with arties in mind. And because of the MASSIVE difference in arty and AC fittings that meant that a AC hurricane could fit the ******* world on there with AC's.

Just try fitting a Harbinger with a 1600 plate, the biggest pulses and some neuts.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

I'm Down
Perkone
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-11-15 05:42:32 UTC
Did you guys consider removing warping on grid as a means of enhancing the use of Micro Jump Drives (MJD)

Did you guys remember to make them unusable to capital ships?

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#92 - 2012-11-15 06:07:19 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
OK, I just saw the list of officer drone modules and there is a huge problem with them.

Huge. Gigantic. Overwhelming.

Take for example "Unit D-34343's Modified drone damage amplifier".

The issue is Obvious. The number is decimal. Not binary. Not Hex. Decimal.

AAARRRGGGGG!!!!!

Also, any deadspace drone mods, for mission and high sec to low sec exploration?


Well we named those mods, (humans) not the drones, so of course they aren't in Hex or binary. On their side of the fence, perhaps they are named with that or something.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Arronicus
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#93 - 2012-11-15 06:13:26 UTC
Still mad about the MLP picture in one of the previous devblogs.

With that aside, you (CCP dev blog writers) have DIRECTLY stated that there will be no changes or rebalancing to a number of battleships, as you think they are perfect, and then in this post, you have said ALL ships in eve will be rebalanced.

Also, how do you plan to rebalance freighters and jumpfreighters? Will we ever finally see any module fitting ability on freighters?
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
Siberian Squads
#94 - 2012-11-15 06:39:10 UTC
So Cruise Missiles are left behind for further expansions/patches?

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Alara IonStorm
#95 - 2012-11-15 07:08:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Fon Revedhort wrote:
So Cruise Missiles are left behind for further expansions/patches?

I don't think they need to be touched at all anymore. I mean they just buffed Fury Accuracy and Dmg / Precision are getting the same Dmg as T1 / T2 Penalties are gone and all the Missiles move a bit quicker.

The only ship that uses Cruise Missiles is the Raven so IMO they should finish there. They should hand it a 7th Launcher + a lil more Grid and move a low to a mid and the thing is fine. The Missiles already move 50% faster then a Drakes which means it has 50% more operating range with the option to let them fly further.

Bring the Raven up to Par and they don't need to buff the Missiles anymore. They should also take a quick peak into 100MN MWD Cap Use and Scan Res of Battleships in general IMO but that is a different thing.

Also thing they should really do is add a new type of T1 / Faction Ammo. Trades like 10-15% Dmg and Flight Time for Velocity just in general.

* New Revelations Cruise Missiles on a Raven with 3 BCU's and Faction Ammo: 8400m/s Vel / 30 Sec Flight Time / 91 DPS.
* Example of New Missile on Raven with 3 BCU say: 17.5 Sec Flight Time 14400m/s Vel / 78DPS. Like that for all Missiles, no extra range just speed.

Perhaps do the same thing with Accuracy instead of Velocity on Short Range Missiles. Less Dmg more Accuracy.
Dalieus Dakarn
Inglorious Salvation
#96 - 2012-11-15 07:25:27 UTC
Where's the graph in this dev blog? Blink
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
Siberian Squads
#97 - 2012-11-15 07:49:06 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Fon Revedhort wrote:
So Cruise Missiles are left behind for further expansions/patches?

I don't think they need to be touched at all anymore. I mean they just buffed Fury Accuracy and Dmg / Precision are getting the same Dmg as T1 / T2 Penalties are gone and all the Missiles move a bit quicker.

That's not enough to justify flying Battleships over convenient tech1/tech2 stuff in medium-sized class. Damage difference is not high enough.

Alara IonStorm wrote:
The only ship that uses Cruise Missiles is the Raven so IMO they should finish there.

No.

I personally used them to PvP with Typhoon (+fleet issue), Navy Scorpion, Golem. They are pretty different from regular Raven. Rattlesnake can be fitted with them as well. So it's quite a bunch of ships.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
SE7EN-SINS
#98 - 2012-11-15 08:01:25 UTC
I've gotta say, when I've fooled around with the Micro Jump Drive on the test server, it felt... disappointing. The icon was cool, the visual effects were pretty awesome, but I can't actually discern its tactical application at the moment. The high spool-up time makes it pretty much useless as an ambush tool, as almost all ships smaller than a battleship (and even then, some battleships) will have time to make their escape. It's cap-hungry, it can only be used once every five minutes, it occupies an entire mid-slot you could use for something more useful and it's affected by warp disruptors and warp disruption fields, meaning that it's also useless as an escape tool - which I will point out is the largest purpose that a "blink" ability has.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Alara IonStorm
#99 - 2012-11-15 08:15:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Fon Revedhort wrote:

That's not enough to justify flying Battleships over convenient tech1/tech2 stuff in medium-sized class. Damage difference is not high enough.

That is because the Raven is short a Launcher and the Typhoon is short 2 Launchers. They should focus there.

Fon Revedhort wrote:

No.

I personally used them to PvP with Typhoon (+fleet issue), Navy Scorpion, Golem. They are pretty different from regular Raven. Rattlesnake can be fitted with them as well. So it's quite a bunch of ships.

* Typhoon is being made a full line Missile Ship so that fix's that. But current try fitting LR Weapons to any other ships with a split weapons system, see many Artillery Cyclones around lately?
* Navy Scorp could also get a 7th launcher.
* Golem is a Marauder with an 8 unbonused launcher equiv. You want to use it for long ranger weapons? How many Artillery Vargurs, Rail Kronos and Beam Pally's do you see wandering around? LR weapons barely if at all work in PvP on the ones with Dmg bonuses, this one does not have one.
* Rattlesnake is a Drone Boat Primarily so how many PvP Rail Domi's do you see? Maybe they could change all Guristas to a Dmg Role Bonus, 4 unbonused weapons, no Battleship pulls off effective range weapons with that, that isn't Cruise Missiles Fault.

The Missiles are fine, the number of Launchers are short.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2012-11-15 09:27:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
Armor Resistance Phasing should be -10% cap usage (instead of 5%), -10% cycle time per level.

The cap usage is way out of line even with the current -5% cap usage per level. Here are some numbers:

Reactive Armor Hardener: -6.3 cap/sec
T2 armor hardener: -1.5 cap/sec
T2 shield hardener: -2 cap/sec
T2 Invulnerability Field: -3.2 cap/sec

Most armor tanking ships are much more cap dependant than shield tanked ones also.