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Dev Blog: Back to the balancing future!

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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#641 - 2012-11-08 09:06:56 UTC
Kai'rae Saarkus wrote:
4.5 is a rational integer. So what happens in that case?


4 is integer.
5 is integer.
4.5 isn't integer.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#642 - 2012-11-08 09:15:24 UTC
Georgiy Giggle wrote:
And what about skills?
I have bc lvl 5 and destroyers lvl 5. Does it mean that you will give me all racial destroyer and battlecruisers skills lvl5?


No, you're special, you'll lose those SP and receive all racial BC and destroyers to I.
Bernard 2007
The Scarlet Storm
#643 - 2012-11-08 09:15:28 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Want to make this clear to everyone, the stuff in this blog is not coming on the 4th with Retribution. This blog covers some of what we are going to be working on in the beginning of next year.



Thanks for that clarification ;) Now can I haz some moare?! ;p

1. If you have the following skills:
Amarr Cruiser III
Gallente Cruiser III
Caldari Cruiser III
Minmatar Cruiser III
Battlecruiser V

Will you have:
Amarr Cruiser IV
Gallente Cruiser IV
Caldari Cruiser IV
Minmatar Cruiser IV
Battlecruiser Racial skills V

After the rebalance? Or will cruiser levels stay the same?

2.
Does these changes mean there's plans to shorten the racial training times? Aka make say Caldari Cruiser a 2x or 3x skill rather then a 5x like today?

3.
Are you making EWAR Battleships for all races?

4.
Is Gallente really that bad? I'm having tons of fun with my gallente pilot O.o And I've got near maxed pilots of all races
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#644 - 2012-11-08 09:18:17 UTC
Sinooko wrote:
Give the Maelstrom comparable locking range to the Rokh.

Also strip shield booster bonus from battleships. Local reps are completely useless in blobs.


But they are still usefull in PVE and small gang PVP.. Blob warfare is not only warfare in eve and ships shouldnt be desinged only for blobs.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#645 - 2012-11-08 09:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Sable Moran
Bernard 2007 wrote:
1. If you have the following skills:
Or will cruiser levels stay the same?


Cruiser skill levels won't change.

Bernard 2007 wrote:
2.
Does these changes mean there's plans to shorten the racial training times? Aka make say Caldari Cruiser a 2x or 3x skill rather then a 5x like today?


No such plans.

Bernard 2007 wrote:
3.
Are you making EWAR Battleships for all races?


Check this link: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2130380#post2130380

Bernard 2007 wrote:
4.
Is Gallente really that bad? I'm having tons of fun with my gallente pilot O.o And I've got near maxed pilots of all races


It's situational.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#646 - 2012-11-08 09:42:06 UTC
Kai'rae Saarkus wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Only rational integers need apply Smile


4.5 is a rational integer. So what happens in that case?



If it has a decimal point, it's not an integer.
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#647 - 2012-11-08 09:50:17 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Sinooko wrote:
Give the Maelstrom comparable locking range to the Rokh.

Also strip shield booster bonus from battleships. Local reps are completely useless in blobs.

I think they could do the best of both worlds make one the Shield Boost and the other the Artillery Ship.

Maybe tracking, or Falloff on the Tempest, Dmg Bonus and 7 Turrets / 6 Mids 5 Lows. Or give the Shield Boost to the Tempest and make the Mael all Fleet.


No dont touch the tempest we dont want repping bonus for buffer tanked armor plated neut ship. We dont want repping bonus for shield buffer nano arty pest either. Its good as it is with either autocannons or artys. Also mael is good as it is. Mael should keep its repping bonus and autocannon option. Besides numerous mael alpha blobs in null says that mael is ok in blob warfare even with its repping bonus..
TheLast Poofighter
Squirrel Horde
#648 - 2012-11-08 10:35:06 UTC
What about off grid mining boosters? These will be nerfed as well?
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#649 - 2012-11-08 10:36:31 UTC  |  Edited by: nikon56
Keko Khaan wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Sinooko wrote:
Give the Maelstrom comparable locking range to the Rokh.

Also strip shield booster bonus from battleships. Local reps are completely useless in blobs.

I think they could do the best of both worlds make one the Shield Boost and the other the Artillery Ship.

Maybe tracking, or Falloff on the Tempest, Dmg Bonus and 7 Turrets / 6 Mids 5 Lows. Or give the Shield Boost to the Tempest and make the Mael all Fleet.


No dont touch the tempest we dont want repping bonus for buffer tanked armor plated neut ship. We dont want repping bonus for shield buffer nano arty pest either. Its good as it is with either autocannons or artys. Also mael is good as it is. Mael should keep its repping bonus and autocannon option. Besides numerous mael alpha blobs in null says that mael is ok in blob warfare even with its repping bonus..

no way i would have said it better


also don't touch the Megathron EHP, it's current role fits it perfectly, and it's ehp barely make him able to sustain alpha strike, reducing it would make it useless, because even a little speed buff will not be enought, cause it'll still be a slow ship whatever.

rebalancing doesn't mean nerf all the thing, and it appears that except maybe the myrm, most of the "rebalance" thing is just a giant nerf,

GG for making the hurricane useless in winter expansion....
you wnated to remove the arty nano shield one, guess what, it still fits
you wanted to remove the 425 dual neut shield, guess what, it still fits

however, the armor one, well, is dead.

and in lowsec small gang, it is the more used cause it is the only one that gives you a chance against drake blobs, because of it's neut ability & tank (myrm could do, but since drone boats are the only one having there dps killed by sentry...no use in lowsec)
doing that, you just made the drake the only one BC viable in lowsec (except maybe the ASB cyclone, but since ASB willl be reviewed, will see)
also FIX this issue, why my dones boats shall loose DPS to sentry when i tank them?

either make the entry not attacking drones, or make them damage the launcher / guns, this would be BALANCING.


on skil side, well i agree on most of the thing, hoping no bug in the destro / BC redistribution.

one point tho: don't touch capital skills

it is necesary that it take time to fly them, because they have roles that need experience.

unless you want to transform lowsec / nullsec in giant capital only fights....


might be fun tho, like reading in local things like: "WTF my new ship cannot go trought the gate? what the hell !!!!!"
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#650 - 2012-11-08 10:53:55 UTC
Irregessa wrote:
Terik Deatharbingr wrote:
Pinky Denmark wrote:


Giving rails and beams a better alpha does not remove artillery as the very best alpha weapon of choice - The difference atm is HUGE and I only see advantages from closing the gap. Currently rail and beam ships have NO place in alpha fleets, but their dps will be a good trade off if the alpha gap is closed... I dont want it to become the same - just make rails and beams more viable for sniping.


he's got a point....don't bring them entirely in line...just bring them a little closer. When no other ship has a place in alpha fleet other than projectiles, obviously something is wrong.


FYI, HBC does not have a doctrine using minmatar battleships at this time. It is either Rokhs with rails or Navy Apocs with pulse lasers (plus the rarely called for, oddball Dreamcats - Nightmares, so again lasers). So how exactly are arties dominating again? The largest nullsec coalition in the game does not use them anymore. If something is wrong, I could argue it is with projectiles, not the other way around.


The only reason HBC does no longer need maelstroms with artillery is because they have numbers- their numbers are so big they will be wasting damage due to arty reload time. Also I bet the enemy down south fight different from what HBC was facing half a year ago with CFC. If you have numbers to alpha people with hybrids and lasers why use the fragile Maelstroms?

FYI the Rokhs are nice because they are more difficult to kill than Maelstroms and as such you will have a more constant stream of dps and are less likely to lose half a fleet to a well placed bomb run. I really doubt Railguns is the reason for Rokhs to prevail down south, though ofcourse the hybrid buff definately made it viable.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#651 - 2012-11-08 11:25:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Whiite
What I consider a bit strange, is that BS are considered fairly ballanced, while the Tier 3 BC's are to BS, what Tier 2 BC's are to cruisers.

I understand there is a role for BS at the moment, though I hoped it would be a little more than Large fleet battles and Highsec Mission running.

I'd like to see some role for the BS's in smaller fleets,
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#652 - 2012-11-08 11:28:28 UTC
I wonder if I'm the only one that regrets the tier 3 battlecruisers are in the game. Imo the game was better off without them.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#653 - 2012-11-08 11:30:13 UTC
So about mindlinks..

  • The fact that they are such a huge portion of the effectiveness of a booster isn't something we like
  • The fact that people are forced to use multiple jump clones or pop a new expensive implant every time they want to switch link types isn't something we like
  • The fact that they make the use of multiple gang link types at once so much worse isn't something we like
  • The exact way to deal with these problems isn't something we have hammered out yet, but we'll keep you updated

And since questions keep coming up I'll clarify some skill stuff again:

Assuming you have the (insert race here) Cruiser skill to 3, the level of (insert race here) Battlecruiser you get after the change will be the same as your Battlecruiser level before the change, not your Cruiser level.

And we don't have a date to give you on the skill changes but here's what I can say:
  • It won't happen in Retribution
  • It won't happen until we release the BC and BS changes
  • We can't commit to exactly when those changes will release yet
  • But I have an internal estimate about when we'll get it done, and that estimate makes me smug out
  • So if you're choosing between training those skills either sooner or later, choose sooner

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#654 - 2012-11-08 11:37:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Fon Revedhort
Viribus wrote:
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Debir Achen wrote:

Now, you might claim that a single ship + mindlink can give all the boost that matters. That could be considered as an argument that said set of boosts is relatively overpowered (vs the other options), rather than a criticism of the hierarchical mechanics themselves.

No, it's the fubar mechanics.

The effect should proportionally decrease if the numbers go up, so that a full squad gets only 1/10 of what a minimal one receives. A full fleet of 256 results in privates getting just 1/250 of the nominal link strength from their fleet booster, 1/50 from the wing booster and so on.

This also means a blob will have to make trade-offs in their fleet composition, because it will no longer be possible to have all the links for the full effect. Isn't that great?

Then, upon adopting this fundamental principle CCP may have their hands finally untied to toss around any ideas, make links buble-like, grid-wide, make them rely on capacitor heavily and so on and so forth.


In an ideal world warfare links wouldn't exist at all, I don't see how it improves gameplay to have a single ship in a large fleet be significantly more powerful than a single ship on its own by virtue of the fleet having some dude's alt in an unkillable damnation or vulture. Are numbers not enough of an advantage or something? idgi. Maybe CCP just wants command ships to kill off small gang and solo for good

But of course CCP is stuck with their awful policy of not removing mechanics once implemented, no matter how bad they are for the game.

EDIT: But I like your idea if we're gonna be stuck with gang links, which evidently we are

Agreed, that's what remote boosting/repairing is for. It's:
a) visible
b) short-ranged
c) of limited effect which goes down if you spread your remote mods over your gangmates
d) requires lock and thus can be countered

Current link/gang-bonusing mechanics is FUBAR and the only issue CCP sees is its... system-wide nature. LOL?

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Raziel Walker
NPC Tax Evasion Corp
#655 - 2012-11-08 11:41:58 UTC
ReK42 wrote:
I don't like the new 2 vs 3% choice, I believe it should be kept 3 vs 5%, but only give the 5% to the one racial boost.


You know they are Tech 3 strategic cruisers, renowned for their versatility.
So how about having a subsystem that gives 5% bonus to one boost and another one that gives a 2% bonus to three boosts?
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#656 - 2012-11-08 11:42:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Denmark
Why the Ferox makes a bad sniper:

  • Naga (same class) does more dps, better range and better alpha
  • Railgun alpha will not be enough to kill even small ships before they warp away
  • Railguns are good support with antimatter within 24km atm - but sucks a lot at range with other types
  • Railguns already have the best range so doesn't really need a range bonus
  • It is easy to get the drop on people at 0km, but difficult to make good use of snipers with poor alpha
  • When you need tackle to keep people in place it is better to go in close with blasters than sit at range sniping
  • Ferox is way too slow to get out of trouble vs. tacklers and other long range ships so might as well fit for short range
  • Eagle is a far better choice for trying to make a sniper boat (even has place for tracking bonus)

The best thing the Ferox ever had going for it was the resist bonus. The Drake doesn't really need it but it has always been golden for the Ferox. Ferox is rarely targeted first because it was known for mediocre dps and a strong tank which meant you got away with many nice things during the battle.

Removing the range bonus instead might seem weird when trying to make railguns usefull, however railguns already have the longest range of their class and the range bonus seems to help the slow Ferox using blasters better.
Remove the range bonus and instead try to make railguns more viable at close range instead with another bonus.
I'd do this with with the damage bonus putting it in line with the rest of the hybrid line even though it doesn't help rails more than blasters but it is what makes the Ferox a nice ship in combination with the resist bonus...

The slow boat with no tracking bonus and no medslots for web/tracking computer will not be able to compete with the Brutix in short range, but have the tank and dps slug it out with railguns and antimatter between 10-24km as well as still being usefull with blasters at a much shorter range with the TE changes but will rely on someone webbing targets to get close.

If the agility and tracking of the Brutix is not enough to clearly make it a better blaster ship (add the armor changes too) then you can give ferox a optimal role bonus, the brutix a fall-off role bonus, and the same to the Harbinger and Hurricane/Cyclone.
It should not be necesary but rather this than break the Ferox.

Trying to make the Ferox compete against the Naga and Eagle will ruin the ship we all love, instead of finally making it usefull... If people still use blasters on the Ferox it's because you guys buffed NULL range instead of nerfing Barrage and Scorch. Buffing the range on short range weapon systems has the obvious consequence of obsoleting the long range systems when it is so easy to get close to people with probes and other game mechanics...

Pinky
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#657 - 2012-11-08 11:48:35 UTC
The current mindlink prices are obscene because they are overpowered, but mostly because they don't drop enough.
Would be ncie to have them in the LP store for a base price about 50m - just look at the mining foreman even though few of those should be lost ofcourse lol
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#658 - 2012-11-08 12:02:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
  • The fact that people are forced to use multiple jump clones or pop a new expensive implant every time they want to switch link types isn't something we like
  • The fact that they make the use of multiple gang link types at once so much worse isn't something we like
    • Why?
    CCP Fozzie
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #659 - 2012-11-08 12:22:13 UTC
    Sinzor Aumer wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
  • The fact that people are forced to use multiple jump clones or pop a new expensive implant every time they want to switch link types isn't something we like
  • The fact that they make the use of multiple gang link types at once so much worse isn't something we like
    • Why?


    Normal implants give a small enough bonus that you may be incentivized to use the right clone with the right ship but you're not crippled if you don't. We don't want committing to a jumpclone to lock you out of 3/4 of your role options for the duration.

    So mindlinks providing a modest bonus would be fine, but the bonus is too big a part of the overal picture at the moment, we'd like to move some of that bonus elsewhere.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
    Steven Shen
    Flat Earth Believers
    #660 - 2012-11-08 12:41:24 UTC
    I hope a combination of drone link augmentor and drone navigation computor due to that the later one is so meaningless, and both have not enough worth to the slot.
    And, I also expect faction and deadspace drone fitting rather than just T2.