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What's sad is that in this time of supposed "better communications with the players" CCP Omen and the rest won't address the concerns people are bringing up at all.

This does not bode well.

> delay of flashy income will screw this
> anonymous tax income will screw this

This was posted back on page 29 of this thread and I haven't heard a response from CCP Omen since page 24 or so...

Many of these thoughts have been echoed by other posts ... CCP can you please provide a response?

2) I do not understand the logic of converting a single-user interface/structure (NPC CO) into a multi-user/Corporate structure (PCO) without providing the mechanism for the exchange of items between users in the Corporation. As proposed this is like creating a station/POS without permitting the creation of a Corporate Office/Hanger. Please explain why the PI team is unable to provide the Corporate functionality (beyond standings/tax) at this time.

3) Please explain why this poster's suggestion of a gradual, player and economic-driven conversion from NPC-CO to PCO cannot be implemented? If Corporate-centric PI exchange is enabled in the structure, the savings in labor by putting all the P2-P4 assembly work on one planet would justify the purchase and defense of the PCO. Many posters have also reminded you of the CCP stated 'put your Command Center anywhere' design now being critical to non-PCO PI.

6) The Bill of Material for the Gantry/CO reads like a POS, so why not allow it to be defended like a POS? You *could* create PCO-unique defenses (someone had suggested ressurrecting mines about 15 pages back) using some of the P2/P3 PI *not* used for Fuel and T2.

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Omen, can you please clarify your response stating that 50% of PI is currently in HS? Can you reveal the split of that statistic by PO/P1 extraction vs P2-P4 assembly? I suspect there is an assumption that most folks haul P1 to HS for final assembly, given the low fertility of the planets themselves. I'm asking because the assumption that small corp/solo players can still do PI in HS makes some assumptions about volume and source for the PO/P1 materials ...

When PI was first introduced there was a concern about ganking at the Custom Office. In my experience, this has only been true in 0.0/w=space about 2% of the time. Most gankers/pirates have better ways of spending their time, and i don't think the PCO conversion with change this. If #3 is implemented as suggested here, there will not be the 'easy' PCO or no PCO indication of where PI is being done. Sure, you can determine which is a NPC-CO and which is a PCO, but users could be using both.

Is the real reason for all this really a DUST514 scaling issue? You can't manage 7500 possible locations/Planets for DUST514 deployment, so you would like the current user base to determine how many planets are *really* of interest? That seems like a weak justification for the high economic impact limiting PI sources will bring.

One last thing. The current design of the CO does a poor job of defining the structure boundries. Industrials are constantly ending warp to the CO inside the structure or on the opposite side from the departure point making return-warp a hidden obstacle circus. Only warping to 10K of the structure resolves this. Please design the PCO with warp-in points far enough out to prevent the inertia of the ship from passing through the structure.

I admit, I'm not the most experienced when it comes to PI but from a PvP perspective, what you're basically asking us to do is shoot more structures which as most PvPers keep telling you, is just about the single most boring aspect of Eve. There has to be a better way of interdicting player/corp's/alliance's economys other than shooting structures.

What you mean to say is that someone, somewhere, will make a buck out of the whole process. Incursion players by selling POCO BPCs. PI manufacturers who are successful, POCO owners etc etc etc.

Adapt or die as we used to say around here.

C.

I need a hug.

I've another option for your Dust scenario:

Dustbunny "Hi my teams here to defend this world from your aggressors!"
Dave "Er..hi."
Dustbunny "So what support can your corp mates give? Orbital bombardment? How big's your fleet?!"
Dave "Sorry you all came so far but a huge blob just blew up my CO so partys over"

I'll one up that and add the characters who specifically set their entire skill queue up and by a blockade runner SPECIFICALLY to ninja PI fron under the noses of the mega corps and enjoy the risk that such actions entailed. Which for in my low sec PI has included gate camps, people trying to scan me down (good luck), people watching customs offices on focused D-scan (which got another guy hauling PI out who was less on the ball then me) and even one "lazy" pirate using a HIC with a focused warp disruptor over the bubble.

And why we're at it, what right does CCP have to kick me and every person who took the time to train the skills right in the balls and make an ENTIRE playstyle in eve totally invalid by this change?



Never mind that the whole point of blockade runners was to smuggle, cloak in, zip out, and be undetectable, and PCO's throw that idea right out the window too. As they do put up a giant sign that says "Camp here for hauler tears." and trust me those so called lazy pirates can, will, and do, because haulers on the killboard pad it nicely more then some mythical cap ship coming in. and guess what, you just made their job even easier and more lazy for them, congrats CCP.

Now if rockets held more then 500 i wouldn't be as pissed. And I'd take the risk to stay in low.

If these PCO's were able to actually be obtained at a reasonable cost I'd take the risk putting them up, or ask the alliances where I do PI for permission, or if they were gonna put up their own. 100 million isk is currently my entire wallet.

If my alliance was willing to help fund these it might be doable, but do you really think I have the right to ask them to drop everything and work on my problem should my out of the way PI get attacked? Where's the profit in it for them to risk pvp ships over it?



This PCO concept throws every risk reward equation right out the window under the assumptions that we'll all somehow play nice, people will be bothered to put these up, we'll actually see decent tax rates, and they won't be blown apart by bored gangs in week one.

Lot of assuming there, my parents had a saying about that, something it makes you involving those first three letters......

This idea is a totally if it aint broke don't fix it, and the only thing more offensive then it is Omen's let them eat cake attitude towards anyone who isn't part of the blob.

There's also the unaddressed problem of launching things TO the planet for further refinement.

Yes, I'm sure the same lowsec blobs that go around blowing up every POS they see in every system will also now spend a few hours reinforcing every customs office they come across as well.

Because shooting structures for hours is fun.

And then coming back 24 hours+ later to even have an appreciable effect on the office is sure to be an exciting fleet goal.

Until you've tried to remove even an undefended small POS with your gang, quit yer whining. People with a will and a purpose will shoot at a customs office just like people with a will and a purpose will remove a POS they want taken down. Bored pilots or fleets will shoot for maybe 15 minutes, get even more bored, and move on.